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Thoughts on PE from johndough

Insults and personal attacks are against the forum guidelines.

Originally Posted by scienceguy106
matutinal_euphony and Flashpoint are the most recent culprits here on the past couple pages of this thread, but I see talk like this all the time: People talk as if they know everything about this stuff on here. They talk as if because something about PE worked in some way for them that their theories on it must be true and they are the experts. That if stuff isn’t working for someone else that they must be doing it wrong. And I think this is the dangerous kind of language that leads to false expectations and disappointments in others. Furthermore, even if you are being completely honest there ARE lots of people on here who lie. Who inflate their statistics. Who measure incorrectly or inconsistently. And this just adds to the hysteria.

Some PE’ers are like me: I’ve dedicated myself to this. I do the exercises correctly. I try everything that successful people have tried. But still, even after all this time, I would say with confidence that all of my small gains are due to swelling and EQ increases.

I can’t thank the Thunders community enough for the knowledge that has led to those EQ increases. It’s wonderful, but now I’m obsessed with it. I plan my evenings around it, I do 30 minute warm-ups with hour-long exercises, and I’m beginning to fear that it will just end up being a huge waste of time in the end. But I can’t stop. This website has made me even more insecure about my size than I was before, but I can’t stop reading it and posting either.

Others are the silent majority. The ones who do PE, probably correctly, but never make gains and never post in the forums. Some of them then make their routines more and more intense until they get some sort of injury (luckily has never happened to me).

What I’m saying is that it could be one out of a hundred men where jelqing, stretching, hanging, pumping, clamping, whatever has led to, or at least been temporally correlated with increases in penis size BEYOND simply an increase in EQ (I think that the scientific studies pretty much confirm that some form of PE leads to EQ increases). But for all we know, one out of a hundred men could also see such an increase (beyond EQ) if they whacked their dick with a sledge hammer as their PE exercise. We don’t know that because we’ve never done a controlled study on it.

What the OP, I, and the other skeptics on here I think are trying to get across is that nobody has done a successful study to test whether that 1/100 statistic I just made up is true. Because I can tell you right now that if that 1/100 stat were true, it would not suggest a link between PE exercises and real increase in penis size beyond EQ. But because the gainers act so sure about the truth behind their statements, it gives (possibly) false hope to newer members that if they just keep going with it, gains beyond EQ will come.


Have you done any PE before joining the forum?

How do you explain gains if someone started with 10/10 EQ? You don’t get an inch out of nowhere if your starting EQ was excellent. That’s why I make sure to have the best possible erection whenever I’m measuring for official results.

BPFSL increase is also a very valid argument. I’m sorry I didn’t measure my starting BPFSL, would be cool to track it with all the stretching I do.

Also, you’re talking about people who’ve done proper PE, never gained and never posted about it. Well, that goes the other way as well. What about people who’ve gained a lot and never posted about it? ;)


Start • 5.94''x4.92''

Now • 6.50''x4.96''

Goal • 7.00''x5.75''

Originally Posted by PErsian
What you have demonstrated is beyond skepticism, you are going out of your way to discredit PE, and the reasons for your vendetta we might never understand. You keep referring to a lousy study, based on an hour of pumping a week, on 37 guys as your back up. I really would have thought that someone from a medical background as you claim to be of, would have had a more unbiased perspective. You are so quick to swear by the results of an abstract study, which we know very little about how effectively the participants took part in, but yet you are willing to disregard the words, testimonies and experiences of thousands of individuals who have been involved in Natural-PE for the last decade. Without the backing of the medical field, we are the pioneers, we only have each others experiences to learn from, and we’ve come pretty far. If one of our vets were to throw a study on PE, he’d surely would’ve made one that would’ve combined pumping with either clamping or something else, as we so far have learned that pumping is best when combined with other/s techniques. Don’t get me wrong, I would love it if the scientific community joined us in researching PE, but we will keep doing and believing in what we love, even without them.


I agree, that study is bogus. That’s like taking 37 guys, telling them to do 20 push ups once a week and expecting them to have huge chest by the month’s end.

Pumping takes way too much time to show significant results, especially when used without other PE methods. But pumping is the most mainstream PE tool and that’s why it gets studied. Who can find enough people who are conditioned enough to do 30 minutes of clamping 3-4 times a week for few months? I’m sure that kind of study would have very different results.

Originally Posted by PErsian
Even when presented with photo evidence, you’ve simply rejected it and claimed either inaccuracy in measuring or in Braindrains case, as a late puberty growth spurt. Tendons, ligs, cartilage, ear-lobes, muscles, human necks, skin, nails, veins and even bones for crying our loud have all been demonstrated to be able to be enlarged with some type of prolonged force, but yet the Penis is somehow immune to this process according to you.


Just a small correction, neck can’t be elongated, it’s a visual thing caused by weight pushing down the shoulder bones (not sure of the proper word for it). Also, bone can’t be stretched, you have to break it, leave a small gap between and let it heal for it to elongate.


Start • 5.94''x4.92''

Now • 6.50''x4.96''

Goal • 7.00''x5.75''

There’s nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism. What we may be seeing here is what’s called debunking, as practiced by so called ” Skeptic Groups”. You come in with a predetermined conclusion, and indulge in whatever mental and statistical gymnastics to prove your point. They’re not actually looking to discover anything. They just want to reinforce the soundness of their reality box, both to themselves, and to others.

To paraphrase Thomas Kuhn ( The Structure of Scientific Revolutions ): “contrary to popular conception, typical scientists are not objective and independent thinkers. Rather, they are conservative individuals who accept what they have been taught and apply their knowledge to solving the problems that their theories dictate. Most are, in essence, puzzle-solvers who aim to discover what they already know in advance - “The man who is striving to solve a problem defined by existing knowledge and technique is not just looking around. He knows what he wants to achieve, and he designs his instruments and directs his thoughts accordingly.”

The word science comes from the Latin scire “to know”. And you can only know by doing, direct experience.
When you say you believe, or ” I think”, or “my opinion is”, what you’re saying is you don’t know. And not knowing creates doubt. And doubt can destroy you, thought by thought (“Am I big enough?, will she laugh?,
Etc?)

Actual scientists hypothesize, plan, study, then DO. Talk don’t cook the food.

Mr. 123’s writing style, and replies have the faint whiff of a debunking exercise. I could be wrong,and freely admit so. Or he could be one of those people so filled with doubts about everything, that he can do nothing
But talk about doing, think about doing, speculate about doing, but not actually DO anything. This, like much
In his posts, is speculation. I don’t know.

You want to know what I do know? I hung weights from my penis and gained 1/4” in length, and 1/16” girth in 2 months. It is not hypothesis, or statistical fallacies in a half baked study. It is a fact. I stopped for almost a month. It’s still there. Got bigger even ( anyone who’s worked out knows about post recovery growth. Get your rest days in). It is not “swelling”.

Thunder’s Place has always been a place to get cutting edge info on PE techniques, protocols, and safety.
It works for most people, but like some things in life, not for all for various reasons, including mental. If
You don’t believe it’ll work, and you keep reinforcing that thought, it can have a physiological effect ( see
” The Word As A Physiological And Therapeutic Factor: The Theory And Practice Of Psychotherapy According To I. P. Pavlov ” for examples).

Real scientists explore, do, and take risks to prove their theories ( ask Marie Curie).

Although most of us here aren’t scientists or doctors, we have proven, to our own satisfaction and through direct experience, though anecdotal, that PE works. The burden of proof to show otherwise lies with the talkers, fence-sitters, debunkers, doubters and other passives.

If you haven’t done it, you don’t know. You may believe, or have an opinion, which both mean the same thing. You don’t know.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m done with all of this jibba jabba. I’m going to grow my dick.

Originally Posted by LBM1
There’s nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism. What we may be seeing here is what’s called debunking, as practiced by so called ” Skeptic Groups”. You come in with a predetermined conclusion, and indulge in whatever mental and statistical gymnastics to prove your point. They’re not actually looking to discover anything. They just want to reinforce the soundness of their reality box, both to themselves, and to others.

To paraphrase Thomas Kuhn ( The Structure of Scientific Revolutions ): “contrary to popular conception, typical scientists are not objective and independent thinkers. Rather, they are conservative individuals who accept what they have been taught and apply their knowledge to solving the problems that their theories dictate. Most are, in essence, puzzle-solvers who aim to discover what they already know in advance - “The man who is striving to solve a problem defined by existing knowledge and technique is not just looking around. He knows what he wants to achieve, and he designs his instruments and directs his thoughts accordingly.”

The word science comes from the Latin scire “to know”. And you can only know by doing, direct experience.
When you say you believe, or ” I think”, or “my opinion is”, what you’re saying is you don’t know. And not knowing creates doubt. And doubt can destroy you, thought by thought (“Am I big enough?, will she laugh?,
Etc?)

Actual scientists hypothesize, plan, study, then DO. Talk don’t cook the food.

Mr. 123’s writing style, and replies have the faint whiff of a debunking exercise. I could be wrong,and freely admit so. Or he could be one of those people so filled with doubts about everything, that he can do nothing
But talk about doing, think about doing, speculate about doing, but not actually DO anything. This, like much
In his posts, is speculation. I don’t know.

You want to know what I do know? I hung weights from my penis and gained 1/4” in length, and 1/16” girth in 2 months. It is not hypothesis, or statistical fallacies in a half baked study. It is a fact. I stopped for almost a month. It’s still there. Got bigger even ( anyone who’s worked out knows about post recovery growth. Get your rest days in). It is not “swelling”.

Thunder’s Place has always been a place to get cutting edge info on PE techniques, protocols, and safety.
It works for most people, but like some things in life, not for all for various reasons, including mental. If
You don’t believe it’ll work, and you keep reinforcing that thought, it can have a physiological effect ( see
” The Word As A Physiological And Therapeutic Factor: The Theory And Practice Of Psychotherapy According To I. P. Pavlov ” for examples).

Real scientists explore, do, and take risks to prove their theories ( ask Marie Curie).

Although most of us here aren’t scientists or doctors, we have proven, to our own satisfaction and through direct experience, though anecdotal, that PE works. The burden of proof to show otherwise lies with the talkers, fence-sitters, debunkers, doubters and other passives.

If you haven’t done it, you don’t know. You may believe, or have an opinion, which both mean the same thing. You don’t know.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m done with all of this jibba jabba. I’m going to grow my dick.


You know, that’s a very interesting perspective, I believe you’re making a few assumpts in your analysis that aren’t true though

The first one, a words origin really has no bearing on the current meaning, language lives and evolves, and words sometimes evolve so much the meaning can even be the polar opposite from the original, case in point, “shit” could mean feces or a terrible product or even a great product depending on the context

Second, 123 is not demonstrating that he’s a scientist, he’s demonstrating that he’s either a student or a scholar, both could be relying on science instead of satisfying it, it’s true, students and scholars can resort to science for their “education” but that’s certainly not a requirement

I happen to enjoy the discussion, and as I’ve said, it seems like almost nobody grows more then about an inch which is indicative of my theory which I stated before on this thread

I do believe 123 in the end will become the hybrid.student/scientist whence because of anecdotal evidence decides the existing science might be flawed and goes about his own experiment to find out

Originally Posted by johndough123
The fact is research has been conducted with pumps and they showed no results for permanent size increase.

John, I don’t have time to read all 15 pages here, but just wanted to mention if it hasn’t been already that there have been a few scientific studies with ADS devices that showed permanent size increases. This shows that there is validity to adding size through stretching techniques.

Originally Posted by johndough123
Thanks Bohm, I will check this out.

Thunderss, when you stated that the results from the extender study(ies) should be taken with a large grain of salt, what about those studies caused you to develop such an opinion?

I don’t remember for sure jd, but it probably had something to do with the studies eventually turning into advertising for the product. All PE gadget sellers want that “proved by study” or “approved by doctors” tag.


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Originally Posted by ThunderSS
I don’t remember for sure jd, but it probably had something to do with the studies eventually turning into advertising for the product. All PE gadget sellers want that “proved by study” or “approved by doctors” tag.


I have to admit thunder, I have gained even more respect for you, you have this pe board and are not only willing to allow fair arguments against pe but offer a few yourself

Well done

Ps

What does the ss behind your tag mean?

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
I had a loud Camaro SS awhile back.


The new camaro’s are great frigging cars at an incredible price, with modern double wishbone suspension, you are getting a quality track car for less then a cruiser, even the 6 cylendar has more horse power then the old “muscle cars” once bragged

Have a look, I think you’ll wind up with one, by now there should be a few used at even more savings

I always thought the “SS” stood for secret service ;)

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