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The Upper Limit of PE: Does it exist?

Originally Posted by wadzilla

Yes, and in term of “lig gains,” you’re right - that’s more or less exposing more inner penis, as opposed to “growing more meat.” But it still shows up on the ruler, no? (And, it can be “inserted.”) :)

Shows up on the ruler, yes. Insertable, probably not. I think I once computed that the maximum insertable length gain from lig stretching alone was about 0.3”, assuming the pubic symphysis is angled at 45 degrees and the shaft is initially stuck to it (i.e., initial lig length=0).

A more typical pubic symphysis angle is probably about 30-degrees, which reduces this NBP gain to about 0.11”. Therefore, I think the NBP gain most guys will see from lig only stretching is slightly more than zilch.


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Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Shows up on the ruler, yes. Insertable, probably not. I think I once computed that the maximum insertable length gain from lig stretching alone was about 0.3”, assuming the pubic symphysis is angled at 45 degrees and the shaft is initially stuck to it (i.e., initial lig length=0).

A more typical pubic symphysis angle is probably about 30-degrees, which reduces this NBP gain to about 0.11”. Therefore, I think the NBP gain most guys will see from lig only stretching is slightly more than zilch.

Whatever you “computed…the maximum insertable length gain from lig stretching” to be, notwithstanding, human indviduals vary significantly. Perhaps you’re relying too much on theoretical mathematical models.

I believe that my musings on existing levels of elasticity will, in the long term, prove to be the most accurate model regarding the prediction of both the amount of gains and rapidity of gains.

While I concede I have no formula with which to express that, I believe that time will reveal that an individual’s F:E ratio will go a long way in determining those outcomes - providing the practitioner remains in PE for enough time.

Originally Posted by wadzilla

Whatever you “computed…the maximum insertable length gain from lig stretching” to be, notwithstanding, human indviduals vary significantly. Perhaps you’re relying too much on theoretical mathematical models.

I think a guy’s anatomy would have to be quite unusual for it not to be described generally by the model. Here is the post where I think I first did the calculations.

I don’t know that “theoretical” is the right word to describe the model. I would go with “approximate,” since the model is an approximation of reality.

Originally Posted by wadzilla

I believe that my musings on existing levels of elasticity will, in the long term, prove to be the most accurate model regarding the prediction of both the amount of gains and rapidity of gains.

While I concede I have no formula with which to express that, I believe that time will reveal that an individual’s F:E ratio will go a long way in determining those outcomes - providing the practitioner remains in PE for enough time.

That’s cool. I’ll try to pay attention to this F-E ratio and see whether I can see the same pattern.


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Originally Posted by wadzilla
Ergo, those with more elasticity (“growers”) have more gain potential - although a lot of elasticity can be tough to combat. While those with less elasticity (“show-ers”) might respond quicker (i.e., achieve plasticity sooner), they would theoretically have less potential.

Sorry if I’d explained my theory poorly.

Poorly? Amigo, another home run in my book. These are exactly the kinds of PE thought trends I was hoping to uncover with this question. Is there a limit? Well, obviously, but what might it be (give or take), and what are the forces driving/creating it? What makes one man’s limit a little higher than another’s? This is all pure theoretical PE gravy.

What you’re saying Wad, should actually bouy up just about anybody in my opinion. Hell, the only thing worse than being a “hard gainer” (i.e. a “shower” who’s on what he may see as an infinite plateau after some easy newbie gains) might be being a hard gainer and not knowing the hell WHY~!

I think the main problem with plateaus and hard gaining is the feeling that people have no idea (or even theory as to) why it’s happening. With the thought that we might have some insight into what is actually causing plateau/hard gains, comes the idea that we might be able to experiment past it.

I really like your elasticity theories too. I really want to look into dietary/supplement based data on increasing tissue elasticity. Since I (used to) fit into the “grower” category, although my elasticity might be good for now, it seems like supplementing with elasticity increasing foods and supplements might be a potential way for someone who’s stalled out near “the limit” to perhaps catch a last spurt of gains before getting “contented and cemented”

Thanks to both you and Modesto for your thoughts…

Any more? :)


THEN: bpel 6.0 eg 5.0 bpfsl 6.125 NOW: bpel 7.375 eg 5.25 bpfsl 7.625

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"Right now our only hope is in the hydrogen bomb." - Charles Bukowski

Originally Posted by wantsmore
….I really like your elasticity theories too. I really want to look into dietary/supplement based data on increasing tissue elasticity. Since I (used to) fit into the “grower” category, although my elasticity might be good for now, it seems like supplementing with elasticity increasing foods and supplements might be a potential way for someone who’s stalled out near “the limit” to perhaps catch a last spurt of gains before getting “contented and cemented”….

Since I think the elasticity thing is probably the most important element of PE, exploring ways to delay the inevitable would make sense. However, I’m not really sure this could be done.

In the first place, elasticity isn’t a substance that could be “replenished.” It’s more or less just a descriptive word describing the condition/response of the tissues to traction.

If any supplement could be employed, it would probably be a topical solution. It wouldn’t be practical to take a supplement that would do this only to the penis. And, frankly, you want some tension in your knee joints & rotator cuffs (this adds to joint stability).

Furthermore, if you had PE’d for quite a while, cemented some real gains and, therefore, exhausted a lot of your elasticity (in achieving plastic deformation), what would happen IF you could suddenly restore high levels of elasticity to your penis?

Would you lose your gains?!

There’s obviously a lot that is simply unknown. For example, during a “deconditioning break,” what is actually happening to the penis? Since we’re not talking about striated skeletal muscle, is there atleast some level of elasticity being restored (thus allowing some further gains)? Maybe something like 2 steps forward, 1 step backwards.

Or are the benefits of a break unrelated to elasticity/plasticity? [However, I must say that after every planned break, my BPFSL did increase slightly. That would seem to “suggest” that at least some elasticity was restored.]

There are many biological aspects unknown to us also (especially pertaining to penile tissues). For example, what are the specific mechanisms of this? Enzymes or proteins involved? What exactly “happens” to the tissues as elasticity is spent? How would these tissues differ in appearance (under the microscope, at the cellular level) as plasticity progresses? Etc., etc., etc.

Under optimal conditions, we might be able to tweak this a little, but I still think the F:E ratio is a good indicator of your limits - and I don’t mean this as a one-time reading either. As your PE progresses, by contrasting these measurements, you could probably get a better feel about how much you have left in you (this could be beneficial for those who are about to prematurely quit, or those who maybe should consider spending their time in other endeavors).

In my first month of PE, I gained 1/2” of EG. If I had kept repeating that, I’d be adding 6” of EG per year ( x 4 years, that’s a gain of 24”, which would give me now about 29.25” of EG). :)

Yet, the reality is this…of the total girth I’ve gained in nearly 4 years of PE, I made about 40% of those gains during my 1st month….and the remaining 60% in nearly 4 years (but even this is misleading; I should say that I made 40% of my gains in the 1st month & 90% of my gains within the first year or so; the succeeding 3 years saw only miniscule gains).

As you can see, I spent a HUGE chunk of my girth elasticity in only one month. And my present F:E ratio on girth is at least 83% (far about my length F:E). So, I’ve gained pretty much all the girth I’m capable of gaining (give or take 1/4” or so). And I really haven’t been able to change that in any way.

As I’ve said before, I think deconditioning breaks are very important.


Last edited by wadzilla : 06-22-2007 at .

I respect that we have individual limits.

For me- from the first, I thought the ligament length on the top was the primary limiter and i have focused on it and the side wings with good results over traditional jelqing (which I still do some of).

I think I’ve read articles here about African tribes that stretched to ridiculous but non-functional lengths.

The materials we are constructed of put hard limits on us.

My gains which are primarily top ligament stretching have exceeded 0.6”.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
(unless you think a man could PE his way to a 4-foot penis, with 2’ of girth).

That sounds good. I could wear it like a neck tie then. Of course, you’d have to look out for those unintentional boners. I’d hate to choke myself to death with my dick.:D

Originally Posted by checkoutmywang
I love how weightlifters will always try to find away to work in how much they bench into an argument. Same thing with hot shot freshman at a new college bringing up their SAT score in a casual conversation.

Anyway, I don’t think anyone’s penis will ever be functional and exceed, say, 709 feet by 4344 feet. And I don’t think anyone will ever dead lift four million kilos.

And beginner, I know the argument of always being able to lift one more pound is attractive, but there IS a point where your spine will collapse. It’s like how you can’t stretch an ounce of aluminum to be 5 million miles long. At some point it just can’t be stretched anymore or else it will break. I imagine the wang is the same way. So I think basically that the upper limit will be shown by injury.

That is the real answer. Everything has it’s natural limits built into it. Like they say, you can’t get blood from a stone. Well, you’ll never have a ten foot dick, unless you are reincarnated as a whale.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
Since I think the elasticity thing is probably the most important element of PE, exploring ways to delay the inevitable would make sense. However, I’m not really sure this could be done.

What if… all gains are simply a maximizing of the tunica elasticity?

The following is a excerpt from a med document on the function of the tunica. It’s referring to the collagen fiber composition of the tunica.

Although their tensile strength is great, their elasticity is limited as a result of the molecular configuration.
Elastic fibres, which are composed of elastin and micro-fibrils, can stretch to 150% of their normal length.

Source: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/do…0X.1997.26511.x

What if, prior to PE the tunica is stretching to <150% of it’s capacity. And what if, pressure from jelking, stretching, hanging and what-not
allow the internal tissues to increasingly expand to fill this gap. I found some information on smooth muscle growth back a while and it listed
a few stimui that elicited smooth muscle growth. I posted it but can’t remember which thread. But, anyway, one stimulus was increased blood flow/pressure. This would explan the growth and expansion of the inner tissues. My theory is that once these tissues expand enough to maximize the tunica expansion, the gains stop. I think some push beyond and achieve more gains throught plastic deformation. But as we know, once we max out this can be very difficult. The solution could be as Wad metioned, to somehow restore elsticity to the tunica.

Thoughs?


Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.

Louis Pasteur

Devilknight who is that on your avatar? She is freaking smoking!!

Wad: When you say that your, “F to E” ratio is potentially a good indicator of your potential “reserve” of gains, what exactly do you mean?

Do you mean that near your, “limit” your F and E lengths start to invariably approach one another?

And by this, do you mean that your bpfsl pretty much represents a length that you should be able to attain, pretty much no matter what, just so long as you put in the work intelligently?

I’m wondering here if a few vets could chime in on their observations. Do you guys find that as you’ve started to approach your PE ceiling, that your bpfsl and your bpel get closer and closer until they basically merge and stall?

Any vets who’ve been stalled for a long time, say >1 year who still have a bpfsl that is significantly longer than their bpel, but they just cant seem to catch up to it?


THEN: bpel 6.0 eg 5.0 bpfsl 6.125 NOW: bpel 7.375 eg 5.25 bpfsl 7.625

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"Right now our only hope is in the hydrogen bomb." - Charles Bukowski

wantsmore,

Yes, I think as you are nearing your personal limits, the difference between your F and E lengths will start to diminish.

Regarding BPFSL, I’m not saying that it represents an “obtainable” length, since it will increase as you make more EL gains; in other words, it will always be “out in front” of your EL. And guys with good erect girth tend to have pretty long BPFSLs, because it seems like the penis will “telescope” out further if it has more thickness.

Also, I want to add that I don’t know about your BPFSL & BPEL “merging,” but what I’ve said is that - in theory - as you near your “maximum potential” your FL & EL will become more similar (but not identical). In other words, as a PE’er uses up elasticity, he will gradually become more of a “show-er” than a “grower.”

I don’t believe that anyone will ever reach their ultimate potential - either in PE, bodybuilding, running, etc. because that would represent perfection. Furthermore, as you move closer & closer to your “limits,” the margin of error decreases until it becomes microscopic. Obviously, in retrospect, we can all observe when we were “at our best,” but that does not necessarily mean that we had “reached our potential” - only that we never exceeded that particular level of achievement.

In PE, I suspect that each person’s theoretical limits would be when they had exhausted virtually all elasticity in their penile tissues. At such a theoretical point, your FL & FG would almost identically mirror your EL & EG - their would be some slight increase or rigidity due to an increase in blood flow during arousal. But there’d be no huge swelling with a guy who’d used almost all of his elasticity.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
wantsmore,

Yes, I think as you are nearing your personal limits, the difference between your F and E lengths will start to diminish.

Regarding BPFSL, I’m not saying that it represents an “obtainable” length, since it will increase as you make more EL gains; in other words, it will always be “out in front” of your EL. And guys with good erect girth tend to have pretty long BPFSLs, because it seems like the penis will “telescope” out further if it has more thickness.

Also, I want to add that I don’t know about your BPFSL & BPEL “merging,” but what I’ve said is that - in theory - as you near your “maximum potential” your FL & EL will become more similar (but not identical). In other words, as a PE’er uses up elasticity, he will gradually become more of a “show-er” than a “grower.”

I don’t believe that anyone will ever reach their ultimate potential - either in PE, bodybuilding, running, etc. because that would represent perfection. Furthermore, as you move closer & closer to your “limits,” the margin of error decreases until it becomes microscopic. Obviously, in retrospect, we can all observe when we were “at our best,” but that does not necessarily mean that we had “reached our potential” - only that we never exceeded that particular level of achievement.

In PE, I suspect that each person’s theoretical limits would be when they had exhausted virtually all elasticity in their penile tissues. At such a theoretical point, your FL & FG would almost identically mirror your EL & EG - their would be some slight increase or rigidity due to an increase in blood flow during arousal. But there’d be no huge swelling with a guy who’d used almost all of his elasticity.

Hmm, I’m somewhat suspicious that almost all of what you are saying has merit to it.

<<<In other words, as a PE’er uses up elasticity, he will gradually become more of a “show-er” than a “grower.”>>>

This, I’ve noticed myself and have seen it somewhat widely reported here.

<<<At such a theoretical point, your FL & FG would almost identically mirror your EL & EG - their would be some slight increase or rigidity due to an increase in blood flow during arousal. But there’d be no huge swelling with a guy who’d used almost all of his elasticity.>>>

BigGirtha and many of the other veteran gainers come to mind here. It does seem that just from a cursory sampling of what I’ve read that the, “big gainers” wind up with big flaccid which closely mirrors their EL.

Thankful for all of this Wad.

Since deconditioning breaks scare the shit out of me~ lost gains ( I know, I know, you get it back quickly, but still) and no real PE’ing~ I’m thinking that doing some research on tissue elasticity and then embarking upon a self experiment of trying to “get me some more” might be a good way to keep my mind off of not PE’ing during a break……google…..google….:google:


THEN: bpel 6.0 eg 5.0 bpfsl 6.125 NOW: bpel 7.375 eg 5.25 bpfsl 7.625

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"Right now our only hope is in the hydrogen bomb." - Charles Bukowski

Originally Posted by madduppz

Devilknight who is that on your avatar? She is freaking smoking!!

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