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The Upper Limit of PE: Does it exist?

I agree with wadzilla’s original post about the limit. Of course there is SOME limit, but has it really even been reached yet?

When has someone’s spine collapsed with a one pound difference?

Originally Posted by Beginner91
When has someone’s spine collapsed with a one pound difference?

I guess you have found the loophole in science. Just use really small increments and no upper limit can even be reached. I will contact the Nobel physics people and tell them about your discovery.

Originally Posted by wadzilla

I theorize that the absolute limits of PE gains (for the individual) occurs when he has used up all of his tissue elasticity. This would require years of PE - for most guys. As plastic deformation increased (resulting in gains), the tissues would retain less & less elasticity (in other words, no more “room” for them to stretch any further).

But this “breaking point” would not necessarily indicate massive gains. Furthermore, as you neared that point, gains would seem impossibly slow & difficult to achieve - maybe just a few mm per year.

Some questions wad, as you’re jumping in with both feet here:

a.) Tissue elasticity, what is it and how does one, “use it up”. I recall something waaaaay back there in school, the word “elastin” springs to mind, but beyond that…..echo….echooooo….echooooooo (that’s my mind).

b.) Second, what mechanism creates this impossibly slow and difficult gaining as you run out of elasticity in your string?

c.) Third, if there are known dietary/intake facets that are supposed to (through proven science) help with tissue elasticity, what the hell are thay and where can I get me some (theoretically even)?

d.) And lastly, do you think that there’s a possibility that “hard gainers” could really be dealing with tissue elasticity issues (external to heredity) which might be somehow treated w/ supplements or diet?

Be interested to get your take on these.

Thanks in advance.


THEN: bpel 6.0 eg 5.0 bpfsl 6.125 NOW: bpel 7.375 eg 5.25 bpfsl 7.625

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"Right now our only hope is in the hydrogen bomb." - Charles Bukowski

Originally Posted by Beginner91
No, I don’t really believe there is a limit.

Is there a limit to how much a man can deadlift? Would you ever reach a point and announce, alright, this is the most amount of weight I will ever lift. No, you wouldn’t. You may think, this is the most amount of weight I want to lift, or this is the size I want my muscle to be at, but the difference there is the desire. Again and again scientists have put limits on humans, especially in regards to the physical side of things. And again and again, they have been proven wrong.

Yes, we are finite, so the spine will collapse. Question is, who is foolish enough to test that?

By the same token, but not the issue of collapse, there is only a certain amount of growth that I feel your penis can accept and still function effectively. What I mean to say is that if you think you’ll sport a 13” dick and it work properly from a vascular standpoint, by all means go ahead. But please get someone to help you from pulling the trigger of that stubnose that you’ll want to be pointing at your head.

Limited by effective working order, but who knows what that is in any given case. Probably darn near impossible to ever reach except for a handful of people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno’s_paradoxes

Originally Posted by checkoutmywang
I guess you have found the loophole in science. Just use really small increments and no upper limit can even be reached. I will contact the Nobel physics people and tell them about your discovery.

Sarcasm, eh? What an utterly brilliant and effective reply!

Originally Posted by wadzilla
Beginner, I’m not sure what you’re saying - you seem to be arguing 2 different points. Are you saying there is no theoretical limit to what a human being can lift, or are you arguing that nobody can predict what a person’s limits are?

As for your example about the deadlift, are you familiar with the story of Milo of Crotona? He’s considered the “grandfather” of weight trainers. As the story goes, he went out every day and lifted up a baby calf. As the calf grew, so did Milo’s efforts (and, presumably, his strength levels). Finally, one day, Milo could no longer lift up the young cow…that day graphically illustrated Milo’s “limits.”

When I first began serious lifting, I added 120 lbs to my bench in 6 months - from 180 to 300 lbs. That’s an average of 20 lbs per month. Yet, it took me a lot longer to get 350 - and even longer yet to get 400 lbs. To add that final 35-40 lbs to my all-time PR (435-440, strict, with a pause on the chest) took me a few more years (probably averaging < 2 lbs per month).

At the most elite level - the world record holders - they might train an entire year to add 1-2 kg to their lifts (and sometimes not even get the 3 white lights). Then another guy will eventually nudge past that now-former record holder. The previous record holder, no matter how diligently tries, usually never reclaims the world record (he often can no longer even equal his own previous bests). Looking back at the earlier contests, one can then see what his limits were. I don’t see how that’s some great mystery.


Exactly.
The body does not know a 1 pound difference, only the mind. The body does know how much 10 pounds more means (when elite, I’m talking 900+deadlift, 800+ bench, 1000+ squat).


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checkoutmywang said, “I love how weightlifters will always try to find away to work in how much they bench into an argument. Same thing with hot shot freshman at a new college bringing up their SAT score in a casual conversation.”

Not sure of his point. I have over 3,000 posts here; how many have been revelations about how much I used to lift? I’m 41 years old, I haven’t lifted in years. I was merely illustrating that as I gained (i.e., approached my theoretical limits), my gaining greatly slowed…until it barely moved.

COMW, sorry if you were unable to get your bench above the “girly man” level - didn’t mean to rub a sore spot.

Originally Posted by wantsmore
Some questions wad, as you’re jumping in with both feet here:

a.) Tissue elasticity, what is it and how does one, “use it up”. I recall something waaaaay back there in school, the word “elastin” springs to mind, but beyond that…..echo….echooooo….echooooooo (that’s my mind).

b.) Second, what mechanism creates this impossibly slow and difficult gaining as you run out of elasticity in your string?

c.) Third, if there are known dietary/intake facets that are supposed to (through proven science) help with tissue elasticity, what the hell are thay and where can I get me some (theoretically even)?

d.) And lastly, do you think that there’s a possibility that “hard gainers” could really be dealing with tissue elasticity issues (external to heredity) which might be somehow treated w/ supplements or diet?

Be interested to get your take on these.

Thanks in advance.

a) Although it might take quite some time, you will eventually exhaust a tissue’s ability to stretch any further.

b) Not sure if it parallel’s Dr. Hans Selye’s discoveries, but he determined that the average person has the ability to increase the strength of a particular skeletal muscle by some 300%; however, the average person’s ability to adapt to greater stresses increases by only about 50%. Ergo, the bigger & stronger you get, the more each workout “takes out of you.” The longer your recuperative times, the easier it is for you to overtrain, get injured, etc. As you approach your theoretical limits in whatever endeavor, you are placing greater & greater stresses about your body - and this outpaces your body’s ability to deal with those ever-increasing stresses.

c) I can’t even begin to help you on this one.

d) I’ve been working on a detailed theory about this <sigh…another one of wad's long-winded theories>. Perhaps after I’ve recovered from the carpal tunnel induced from my last post, I’ll pitch that one at ya.

wantsmore, I noticed that I short-changed you on your 1st question (it’s late here).

If you consider an elastic band or a cable that is “stretched to the breaking point,” that could roughly illustrate the point I’m making about elasticity. You seem to be asking about the specific “mechanism” behind this. Obviously, when talking about cables, this would deal with physics/chemistry. When talking about the penis, you’d be dealing with biology.

I don’t know the exact medical explanation behind this, but I would imagine it relates to a question once posed here: “Is an 8-inch PE’d Penis Different from an 8-inch Natural Penis?”

I believe the answer is “Yes.” In other words, within the complicated biology of plastic deformation of penile tissues, I would bet there are specific “changes,” at the cellular level, with these tissues. Whether you’ve gained 1, 2 or 3”, these gains begin at the cellular level. I imagine there to be a deformation, at the microscopic level, which over time will diminish the tissue’s ability to continue deforming. This might involve some exhange of proteins or elastin, or whatever (that’s not my forte).

Realistically, for us to have any effective pharmacology/dietary approach to this, medical science would have to get involved in this field. And that doesn’t look likely in the near future.

Ok, I think it has been established that there is a limit logically. So what is the logical practical limit? Meaning, what is the PE version of the 30 foot jump? And do I need a couch and can I get into the olympics if I train real hard?

Originally Posted by Beginner91
No, I don’t really believe there is a limit.

Is there a limit to how much a man can deadlift?


I think the rough limit is three times your own body weight. Like I saw a little chinese dude lift 400 lbs, and he only weighed 130. He would be very close to his limit I think

Originally Posted by wadzilla

I believe the answer is “Yes.” In other words, within the complicated biology of plastic deformation of penile tissues, I would bet there are specific “changes,” at the cellular level, with these tissues. Whether you’ve gained 1, 2 or 3”, these gains begin at the cellular level. I imagine there to be a deformation, at the microscopic level, which over time will diminish the tissue’s ability to continue deforming. This might involve some exchange of proteins or elastin, or whatever (that’s not my forte).

Realistically, for us to have any effective pharmacology/dietary approach to this, medical science would have to get involved in this field. And that doesn’t look likely in the near future.

Thanks for the replies wad, good stuff, carpal tunnel or no!

However, after following your reasoning the pharmacological/dietary angle, which I have in the past kind of passed over (miracle dick growing pills and all that), now seems a little more interesting to me. I suppose what we really need is some information on the kinds of proteins, amino acids, vitamins, enzymes, oxygenation factors, and etc.etc.etc. that coincide with healthy, permanent tissue expansion….hmmmm…..:google: …..


THEN: bpel 6.0 eg 5.0 bpfsl 6.125 NOW: bpel 7.375 eg 5.25 bpfsl 7.625

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"Right now our only hope is in the hydrogen bomb." - Charles Bukowski

I’m sure there’s a theoretical ceiling, but I think it’s more practical than anything. After 5 years of aborted attempts without any gains, I’ve drawn the conclusion that serious PE requires a lifestyle change to be effective. Which is to say, you about have to orient the day around your dick, not ‘do it when you get a chance’. That’s a lot of work and dedication to maintain for even a few years, let alone a few decades. At some point, I think people just say ‘got it’, and retire, at which point their gains stop without reaching their theoretical ceiling.

The other side of it is, what do you do with it? As you get bigger, the # of women willing to sleep with you also diminishes. That’s another ‘ceiling’ to consider.


Re-Start 3/07: FL 3.5, FLBP 4.2, FG 4.5, EL 5.75, ELBP 6.25 6/1/07: FL 4.2, FLBP 5.1, FG 4.85, EL 5.9, ELBP 6.9, EG 5.25 Goal: NBP 9x6.5

Originally Posted by wadboutme
what is the PE version of the 30 foot jump?

I believe that would be the hardest of all to determine.
I think PE gains rely on 3 factors:
(1) Penile Elasticity (“grower” or “show-er”)
(2) LOT (the higher your LOT, the more potential “inner ligs” you have to stretch out)
(3) Starting Size (there would logically seem to be at least some correlation between your starting size - total mass - and your potential to increase that volume)

Now, casting aside other external considerations - dedication, habits (smoker? drinker?), is he doing an effective routine?, etc - there’s a great deal of variation between men regarding elasticity & LOT, perhaps even more so than starting size.

Take a guy who is an extreme show-er (little variation during erection, minimal elasticity) and has a very low LOT. That guy might never add a full inch of EL, or even much girth either. However, since he has very little elasticity (major show-er), if he trains right his minimal gains shouldn’t take long to achieve.

Another guy is an extreme grower (much elasticity in his penis) and he has a very high LOT. If he has those other “external considerations” I mentioned, he probably has the potential to make maximal gains. Because of his high LOT, he should get some quick lig gains, but his very elastic penis might not cooperate so easily with plastic deformation. However, if he stays with it & PE’s intelligently, he has the potential to make some BIG gains over time.

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