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The Penis (smooth) Muscle Theory

Originally Posted by A69
Im certainly no scientist when it comes to PE, but I do agree with PS here.
The observations I have made in the last few years of the methods that do/ do not work for me point squarely at the tunica as being the limiting factor in PE.
Im going back to reread my notes where I started to develop exercises to target the layers of the tunica seperately, try to develop them further, and see what I can achieve.

Good to hear it :up: I can’t wait to see your notes.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
The principle observation that contradicts the notion that the tunica is THE limiting factor in PE is that BPEL is greater than BPFSL in many people.

Very interesting thought! This indeed makes sense.

Perhaps when we are stretching the flaccid penis (for a BPFSL measurement) we are stretching the contracted smooth muscle cells, applying longitudinal pressure on them. But still, just stretching them doesn’t mean we are pulling them to their full potential. They have to be completely relaxed, for that, I would assume.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by Swensk
Can percentage rate of the smooth muscle explain why some can gain longer times /(and more) than others?

/Swensk

Perhaps, but I assume that one can raise the percentage rate of SM cells. As one of the articles I referenced in the first post of this thread said, men with a low percentage of smooth muscle typically have ED.

Originally Posted by northof60
Very interesting discussion. I did a little searching myself and found this..

Http://www.cascadebio.com/pdfdocs/M…M231%20SMGS.pdf
Http://www.cascadebio.com/index.cfm…Content&CID=543

Now these products are for scientific purposes NOT human consumption but still, if you look at the ingredients doesn’t it strike you as something that could have possibilities down the road?

Wow, what do you know… they have a smooth muscle growth supplement? Now, I’m no pharmacist, but wouldn’t taking this pill have an effect on all the smooth muscle cells in the body? This could potentialy be a bad thing (i.e. prostate glan growth, liver, etc.). I wonder if there is a way to focus it on the penis only? Definitely a worthy subject to study!


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by penismith
It could be that his smooth muscle is very tightly constricted but I am not sure there is enough smooth muscle there to resist the force generated by the arms and shoulders of an average man. IOW, we are putting a whole lot of skeletal muscle up against a little bit of smooth muscle. I think that the skeletal muscle is going to win. On the other hand, we know that collagen bundles have a tensile strength comparable to that of steel and when you put the skeletal muscle in the ring with the steel, the skeletal muscle is going to wear out before the steel gives, much.

I don’t think we can calculate it as a smooth muscle vs. skeletal muscle approach, as mentioned above. In my eyes, its the time vs. force. progressive overload approach that we must look at. I look at enlarging the penis as I would a muscle such as the biceps.

The resistance, imo, is the same resistance in muscle. Some guys build muscles quickly, others not so much. Why can’t guys build big muscles forever and ever? In weightlifting, sooner or later many guys hit a plateau and the gains come to a halt. A lot of this has to do with approach, technique, etc. I believe these factors apply to the penis too.

A plateau also happens in PE too. Most of us who PE long enough get them — and we hate them too! Also, most of us that hit a plateau notice that the penis becomes much harder. This is often believed to be a result of a biological response. We exercise the penis, and as a defense, it hardens. But what physiological part of the penis makes it harder? To suggest that the tunica is the ultimate limiting factor, also suggests that the tunica is what causes a plateau. But why? And more importantly, how?

This is what I ask myself: If the tunica does cause the plateau, then why does the penis become harder? I haven’t read anything that shows a correlation between tunica hardness and penile hardness. I have, however, read that the smooth muscle plays a monumental role on hardness.

But this is all definitely open for discussion. As Modesto said (and PS confirmed), there are probably multiple resistant factors that we must overcome to gain. Personally, I think the evidence shows that the smooth muscle plays a significant role in penile growth. It has to grow, and I don’t think it’s growth is red herring.

I have to go now. As Modesto often says… “I hate deadlines.” But thanks for the input penis smith, MM, PG, and everyone else taking part in the conversation. This is all very informative. I will be back soon to finish reading the rest of the thread.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by remek

I remember reading this article some time ago. The procedure looked… well.. very painful! I am having a hard time putting two and two together, though. I can’t see how this article demonstrated how PE would be much easier without the tunica. In fact, the way I see it, I think it shows the opposite.

From what I understand,the doctors grafted the tunica. Meaning, they “surgically transplanted tissue” into the tunica. I briefly re-skimmed the article, but I believe this means they enlarged the tunica. Thus, making it thicker. And according to the tunica rule (the way I understand it), this make growth harder.

The tissue they grafted was harvested from a vein. My understanding is that veins are not nearly as tough (and inelastic) as the tunica. The tunica of the penis is one tough mother—especially one affected by Peyronie’s. Most veins are pretty stretchy, by comparison.

To me, the study shows that growth can be fairly rapid when a Peyronie’s affected section of tunica is replaced with venous tissue. This is probably because the venous tissue presents less resistance to traction and thus allows distraction histogenesis (DH) to take place at a higher rate.

It’s unclear whether a similar degree and rate of growth could be attained if the operation were performed on a normal, healthy tunica. I think knowing something about the starting sizes of the guys who received the surgery (before Peyronie’s set in) would help to answer this question.


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Originally Posted by remek
I don’t think we can calculate it as a smooth muscle vs. skeletal muscle approach, as mentioned above. In my eyes, its the time vs. force. progressive overload approach that we must look at. I look at enlarging the penis as I would a muscle such as the biceps.

The resistance, imo, is the same resistance in muscle. Some guys build muscles quickly, others not so much. Why can’t guys build big muscles forever and ever? In weightlifting, sooner or later many guys hit a plateau and the gains come to a halt. A lot of this has to do with approach, technique, etc. I believe these factors apply to the penis too.

That isn’t the point that I was trying to communicate. What I intended to convey is that if contracted (flexed) smooth muscle was the cause of a particularly short flaccid stretched length, most men would be strong enough to stretch it to somewhere close to its relaxed state length when taking their flaccid measurement. My reasoning behind this is a matter of biophysics. Most men can probably pull with a force of at least thirty pounds and there is not enough smooth muscle in the penis to resist that force during the stretch. You might not be able to stretch it out completely but most men will be able to stretch it out enough so that they will not have stretched flaccid and stretched erect lengths that differ by two inches.

Originally Posted by remek
This is what I ask myself: If the tunica does cause the plateau, then why does the penis become harder? I haven’t read anything that shows a correlation between tunica hardness and penile hardness. I have, however, read that the smooth muscle plays a monumental role on hardness.

Very interesting. Can you link us to the material that states that smooth muscle regulates hardness?

Here is another way to think about it:

Imagine yourself lying on your back with a weight on your crotch. How much weight do you think you could lift from your crotch with one arm.

Then, imagine yourself lying face down on a bed with a hole in the crotch area. if there was a weight resting on the floor and attached to your penis, how much do you think you could lift if you were somehow consciously able to control the contraction of your penile smooth muscle?

Another thing to think about is the structure of smooth and skeletal muscle. They are surrounded by lipid (fat) membranes. These membranes are fluid and have a consistency comparable to olive oil. The only reason your mussels don’t fall off your bones is the tough collagen fabric that surrounds them.

The only real reason you don’t pull your penis off your body with the slightest tug is collagen. This is true but it is also complex because to really discuss this we have to start talking more about the collagen network between cells (extracellular matrix).


Last edited by penismith : 05-18-2006 at .

I would not want to interrupt this great discussion but I feel like it is great time to throw a quick question related to ‘p e n I s m I t h’ previous post. My flaccid penis when stretched with full force is like one inch longer than my fully erect penis. What does it say about structure of my penis and what guys like me should do in order to make erect length the same as fully stretched flaccid length? Is it possible?

Disi,

That subject was discussed here.


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My BPFSL only was longer than my BPEL when I had problems with erections (kinda.. as in just 80% when you really need 100% for the actual full size).
Listening to some penis growth hypnosis tapes remedied this for me ;)
The rest of these effects are still under evaluation :)

Ys

disi,

I think that penile skeletal muscle probably plays a large role in the length of the erect penis.

“The human penis is composed of the glans penis, the corpus spongiosum with the bulb of the penis, and the paired corpora cavernosa in which skeletal muscle structures and the continuing tunica albuginea completely surround and contain smooth muscle structures, which intermingle with fibrous tissue to form the wall of the sinusoids (Goldstein and Padma-Nathan, 1990; Hsu et al, 1992, 1994; Brock et al, 1997). The corpus spongiosum is partially entrapped by the skeletal muscle. These encased tissues finally pass through and are regulated by the surrounding structures. The penis gives the appearance of being an independent organ because of its skeletal muscle structures. They are the tissue that determine the penile shape as well as an essential part in the establishment of a rigid penis.”

I think that the contraction of the ischiocavernosus muscle may retract the length of the penis a little. When skeletal muscles contract, they shorten and the other penile tissues are also laced with this muscle type.

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/con…-03-03-f03.jpeg

I have taken a sort of pseudo erect length measurement while clamped. This was during my second or third clamping session of the day. When I took the measurement, I did something kind of stupid and that was to stretch my pseudo erect penis while taking the length measurement. Don’t ever do this, it puts a bit of numbness may result. This measurement was about a quarter inch longer than my true erect measurement. There are many reasons why this might have been the case but I suspect that extreme clamping temporarily disrupts skeletal muscle tone. Another reason why I think this is that it is difficult for me to get fully erect right after an extreme clamping session. I can get ~70 or 80% erect but not rock hard for a short time. It seems that the skeletal muscle is somehow inactivated for a period of time. The same also seems to be true for over pumping and too much hanging.

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi…t/full/25/3/426
Also linked above.

Thanks Modesto and thanks p e n I s m I t h. I will take a closer look at this.

Originally Posted by penismith

…I am not certain that Xeno or anyone else can take the necessary measurements with the precision that would be necessary to accurately find the inflection points in his analysis…

Suspend that belief.


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

Hidden details: Finding xeno: a penis tale; Some photos: Tiger

Tell me, o monks; what cannot be achieved through efforts. - Siddhartha Gautama

Originally Posted by remek
I’m pretty sure there was no evidence backing up these claims. Therefore, just because the doctors that published this article hypothesises a loss of tunica elasticity caused the megalophallus, this doesn’t necessarily mean they are right (or wrong, for that matter.) Just a thought. :)

If a doctor said it, it’s probably wrong! That’s my opinion, and that is a fact.

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