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The Holy Grail of PE is found!!!

Originally Posted by goonbaby
I have not read everything in this thread…so, whatever. But has anyone tried Vig-rx Oil? I have heard anecdotal evidence that Vig-Rx Oil combined with Cialis or Viagra will induce Priapism.

I’m going back to work now.

I took a look at the Vig-rx website. I am quite skeptical of this product but lets here the details of what you heard.

I’m sure it’s possible, but would probably be much less effective than oral. Also, axis PDE-5 would rely much on stimulation. I’m guessing Caverject wouldn’t so much.

Vasodialator

Originally Posted by penismith
A cheap, assessable and safe vasodialator has been my elusive white tiger.


Penissmith, try ginger.

ll


Start: 6.3 x 5.2 (Feb '05)

Now: 7.9 x 5.65 (gain 1.6 x 0.45) - SFL 8.6"

Goal: 8.5 x 6.0 - Currently trying: jelqing, fulcrum hanging/bending. My data - Progress log

Ginger?

Just to add to the discussion, I’ve tried L-Arginine HCL in a trans-dermal cream, and that did nothing for me.
I’ve also thought about capsicum as in cayenne pepper, but I haven’t got the balls to put Tabasco hot sauce on my penis. (I don’t know why, I already stick it in a cable clamp that looks like a torture machine).

I’ve also thought about crushing up a Viagra and applying it with DMSO, but I don’t know enough about dosage and don’t want to give myself a HEART ATTACK (so don’t do this at home, readers). Because trans-dermal application can lead to a much higher rate of absorption and a Viagra o.d. can give you a heart attack. Also, I don’t have access to pharmaceutical grade DMSO and don’t want to absorb all the other junk in standard DMSO.

I’m sure the pharma companies have thought about this, but maybe it would work for a 40%-80% erection (like a full, but flaccid). They have higher standards. Shiver maybe you have enough knowledge to figure this out?

I am also looking for a constant FBF (full, but flaccid; Did I just coin a new acronym or has it been used before? Whoopee).

The trouble with transdermal route is that you reach a saturation point pretty easily. If you look at the amount of powder in a viagra pill, there’s no way that it’s all going to soak through the skin. Even with non sildenafil portion of the tablet removed, 100mg is still quite a lot of material. Then once it’s through, I imagine that much of it would only be effective because it hit the bloodstread and eventually traced the whole system to get to where it would have gotten if you just swallowed the pill in the first place. If you’re concerned about a heart attack (or more properly, blood pressure drop), then it might be better to consider something other than Viagra, as although it is a PDE-5 inhibitor, it’s not 100% specific, and has peripheral effects too.

The DMSO I had was from JacobLab.com, and is called DUSA-60. I was always very happy with that, but as I’m emigrating I gave my bottles to a couple of older friends with arthritic knees.

Wrt Arginine, for the same reasons as viagra, I’d be very surprised if transdermal would be effective. Most people take multiple grams per day, which means either that a lot is needed to be effective, or it is competing with somethings else, or it’s being deactived to a high degree before getting where it needs to go.

I’m sure the makers of MUSE must have considered transdermal before settling on the intra-uretheral route, so there’s got to be a reason topical is of limited effectiveness (maybe the low blood flow rate of the tunicas collagen makeup, or it’s effect as a barrier are the first two possibilities that spring to mind).

Perhaps an irritant might be the best way to go after all. If the nerves/sensation on the skin are enough to trigger an erection, then there has to be a linkage in there somewhere. I’d like to find a more direct trigger though.

The FBF acronym works for me. Anyone care to vote on that?

Good point about the tunica limiting the trans-dermal effect.

I have thought that a cream applied to the glans would miss the tunica and go straight into the local tissue. The urethra is attached to the glans so it seems like the logical place to start, although it may require a higher dosage.

Also, do you have any thoughts on the increased transmission of a drug through trans-dermal route. I have read about this from a variety of sources (testosterone patch, birth control patch, etc) and I’ve seen a picture of the muse pellet and it is very small. Would this mean we could use less Viagra or whatever?

I also think the best place to apply an irritant is the glans, so it would increase blood flow and get that FBF. I just can’t find the right one. Do you know of any commercially available creams with benzyl nicotinate or methyl nicotinate?

Originally Posted by Shiver
The trouble with transdermal route is that you reach a saturation point pretty easily. If you look at the amount of powder in a viagra pill, there’s no way that it’s all going to soak through the skin. Even with non sildenafil portion of the tablet removed, 100mg is still quite a lot of material. Then once it’s through, I imagine that much of it would only be effective because it hit the bloodstread and eventually traced the whole system to get to where it would have gotten if you just swallowed the pill in the first place. If you’re concerned about a heart attack (or more properly, blood pressure drop), then it might be better to consider something other than Viagra, as although it is a PDE-5 inhibitor, it’s not 100% specific, and has peripheral effects too.

The DMSO I had was from JacobLab.com, and is called DUSA-60. I was always very happy with that, but as I’m emigrating I gave my bottles to a couple of older friends with arthritic knees.

Wrt Arginine, for the same reasons as viagra, I’d be very surprised if transdermal would be effective. Most people take multiple grams per day, which means either that a lot is needed to be effective, or it is competing with somethings else, or it’s being deactived to a high degree before getting where it needs to go.

I’m sure the makers of MUSE must have considered transdermal before settling on the intra-uretheral route, so there’s got to be a reason topical is of limited effectiveness (maybe the low blood flow rate of the tunicas collagen makeup, or it’s effect as a barrier are the first two possibilities that spring to mind).

Perhaps an irritant might be the best way to go after all. If the nerves/sensation on the skin are enough to trigger an erection, then there has to be a linkage in there somewhere. I’d like to find a more direct trigger though.

The FBF acronym works for me. Anyone care to vote on that?

Yes, one would need to take at least 25 mgs (Viagra) orally but the penis makes up a very small fraction of the total body volume. For less than 25 mgs of active drug makes it to the penis when Viagra is taken orally. Probably less than 0.25 thousands of a gram when you take the liver into consideration. That, and many PDEIs are available in raw form so pill extraction is not an issue.

Skin saturation isn’t such a problem either if one uses a derma roller and a suitable carrier.

You have got a good point about MUSE and I think it has to do with the fact that most of the blood vessels between the skin and the tunica draw blood away form the penis. An urethral PDEI suppository might work.

The glans is probably the most effective skin area, but I don’t really want to dermaroller that, even if it is painless, the imagery just makes it all seem so very wrong :)

I guess there must be some stats somewhere on the first pass liver effects on viagra since it has FDA approval, but before getting to that, where’s the justification in taking the PDEI route in the first place for the purposes of Holy Grail PE? We can approximate the results in tablet administration and that doesn’t work. Is someone suggesting that local administration would allow greater effectiveness without systemic effects? Where are the PDE-5’s located anyhow? Is that the BC muscle?

I woke this morning really bursting for a leak, and sporting a fair semi. What causes that? Is that just bladder pressure on some other trigger?

Originally Posted by Shiver
The glans is probably the most effective skin area, but I don’t really want to dermaroller that, even if it is painless, the imagery just makes it all seem so very wrong :)

I know what you mean. :eek: But it might be relatively painless and safe. It would not be the most extreme thing I have done.

Originally Posted by Shiver
I guess there must be some stats somewhere on the first pass liver effects on viagra since it has FDA approval,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacokinetics

Searches with ones drug of interest and Pharmacokinetics will often turn up what one is looking for and this:

http://medlineplus.gov/

is also a good general source of info because it is compiled by the US Government. Okay, that sounds bad but in this case it is good. :)

Originally Posted by Shiver
but before getting to that, where’s the justification in taking the PDEI route in the first place for the purposes of Holy Grail PE? We can approximate the results in tablet administration and that doesn’t work. Is someone suggesting that local administration would allow greater effectiveness without systemic effects?

I am mostly just thinking out loud here. I am wondering if erection would be spontaneous with a high local concentration. I really don’t know. As a related side note, a very well respected and knowledgeable member here sent me a link to this:

Levitra induced hard on Bigger then F.S.B.P.L.

and told me that he and a physician friend of his have found that they get extra girth and a particularly taunt glans. In part, that is why I have the PDEIs and Levitra in particular on my mind.

“Vardenafil (Levitra) has a similar duration of action to sildenafil, but is more potent and selective biochemically.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…l=pubmed_docsum

Originally Posted by Shiver
Where are the PDE-5’s located anyhow? Is that the BC muscle?

“RESULTS: Rat CC expressed the highest PDE5 mRNA level. PDE5 was specifically immunolocalized in endothelial and smooth muscle cells. Surgical castration induced a significant reduction of PDE5 gene and protein expression (p<0.05), and ES response at all stimulation frequencies (p<0.001). T supplementation completely restored PDE5 expression, erectile response to ES and responsiveness to PDE5 inhibitor.”

penismith - The Penis (smooth) Muscle Theory

You should read that thread, it contains a lot of great information. I also realize that I already know the answer to the electronic stimulation question.

“Erectile function was evaluated by monitoring intracavernous pressure (ICP) following electro-stimulation (ES) of the cavernous nerve and intracavernous injection of NO donor, sodium nitroprusside (SNP).”

And what is this sodium nitroprusside? Hmm. Both quotes are from that same link.

Originally Posted by Shiver
I woke this morning really bursting for a leak, and sporting a fair semi. What causes that? Is that just bladder pressure on some other trigger?

Damn good question. These night time erections are somewhat different biochemically from horny boners though so I don’t know if stimulating them would have the same effect.

What about taking other blood thinning products like VITAMIN E and Aspirin

Originally Posted by braveheart7
What about taking other blood thinning products like VITAMIN E and Aspirin

Those might help a little bit but what we are looking for is something that will keep us just barely erect enough for sex for several hours without having to think about sex or masturbate.

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