Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Surgery Forum?

View Poll Results:

Would you like a Surgery Forum added to Thundersplace?

YES! I think this is very important

3636.00%

Yes, I think it is somewhat important

1919.00%

I don’t actively desire one, but am not opposed to the idea

2727.00%

No, I am actively against the idea

1818.00%
Total Votes: 100. You may not vote on this poll

Originally Posted by westla90069
The choices are essentially three yes and one no, so one could add up the first three choices and say to Thunder, “See, a lot of people want one.” I voted against because this is a place of manual or natural methods, not surgical. Surgical is the “quick” way, the “easy” way, the one with “instant” gains. But it’s also, as 8-Ball has learned, the way of great disappointment, pain and unfulfilled dreams. I’d rather keep this place focused on manual methods.

Some of you know that my job involves administering anesthesia for surgery. I’ve worked with Gary Rheinschild and another (now out of the business) surgeon and have participated in dozens of these procedures. So I’m not being anti-surgery without some insight into the way things work.


First of all I disagree with your theory that I have biased the poll with my answer choices, there is a difference between being actively interested in the forum and supporting the idea without a vested interest. I definately agree that surgery is not the magic cure that many patients hoped for, including myself. However, I haven’t had a truly BAD experience from it. Keep in mind I PE’d for 5 years with virtually nothing to show for it and now I have finally made large gains for the first time ever. Was I dissapointed I didnt gain an inch and a half of girth? Yes, but I still am glad I had it done. And, the surgery certainly isn’y an “easy” or “quick” way. You have to hang weights to actually gain any length so it is neither easy or quick. Most people don’t realize this and by having a forum we could discuss all of this information and bring it to the table.

I do understand your point about the dissapointment many men feel with the surgery, but remember I am not promoting it, just providing the facts. Also, there are a lot of men who have it done who are estatic about the results, so it is a mixed bag, definately a higher amount of risk and uncertainty though.


"If you can conceive it, and you can believe it...then you can achieve it."

Formerly known as Gandolf


Last edited by 8-Ball : 10-10-2005 at .

Originally Posted by 24 Hours
I’m all for it. You can see just by the incredible response/participation to 8-Ball’s threads that there’s a tremendous interest amongst members.

It could allow the site to better organize different topics related to surgery. As of now 8-Ball’s surgery progress thread is alone fielding every type of surgery question and surgery-related topic, whether it’s related to his post-surgery experience or not. Because that’s where all the guys who’ve had surgery experience hang out now (since there’s no surgery forum for them).

I once posted a new surgery-related thread on the effects of cutting the suspensory ligament, and literally had to go post on 8-Ball’s thread and point them to my thread to get some insight from them. :)

Since then I’ve just posted all my q’s directly onto 8-Ball’s thread.


You hit the nail on the head, this is why I want to do it. I am more than happy to answer and discuss general surgery questions, but they are all popping up in my thread which is way too cumbersome for people to read the whole thing unless they have been following it day by day. This causes people to post questions which have already been answering several times, and makes the post longer witht eh discussion becoming more circular, exasterbating the problem. I would have things organized a lot better if there were a forum.


"If you can conceive it, and you can believe it...then you can achieve it."

Formerly known as Gandolf

Originally Posted by Para-Goomba
Excellent answer choices, 8-Ball — the poll Crashhex posted was super-annoying because the answer choices were so biased.

I’d say it might be a good experiment at this point, especially since we have at least one member (8-Ball) who is motivated to try to obtain truly accurate information about these surgeries. If the forum doesn’t get much activity, the threads in it could always be collapsed back into the “Main” forum.

One big potential problem I see is that we may get a lot of spamming bullshit that is hard to weed out from legitimate posts. Surgery is HUGE money, way way way more profitable than any of the PE devices sold out there, so I’d be concerned that we’d get a lot of fake registrations appearing..


I definately agree with the spamming thing. Maybe the surgery forum could be reserved for those with a designated post count? Block new users from posting or maybe even from viewing? Most spammers wouldn’t go through the hassle of making 100 posts before they could come and spam the board. And also, newbies shouldn’t be considering the surgery anyway as it is more of a last resort for those who simply don’t gain from traditional PE methods.

Also, I agree about Crashhex. He was very biased in his thread about his experiences and refused to post the bad along with the good. Even his poll was biased. Compare my poll and my surgery thread to his poll and his surgery thread and it should be clear that there is a world of difference.


"If you can conceive it, and you can believe it...then you can achieve it."

Formerly known as Gandolf


Last edited by 8-Ball : 10-10-2005 at .

I am actively against the idea, because this is a PENIS EXERSIZE SITE. Not a penis surgery site.

Everyone here does the work themself. That is why this site is so great.

Sorry.


Did you know America ranks the lowest in education but the highest in drug use? It's nice to be number one, but we can fix that. All we need to do is start the war on education. If it's anywhere near as successful as our war on drugs, in no time we'll all be hooked on phonics

- Leighann Lord

Well, this IS a free PE forum…would there be a DIY section to this surgery thing? Free surgeries? Didn’t think so, hence my choice of “strongly opposed”.

Actually, I do see some benefit to the idea, but had to weigh those against the negatives. We may learn many things from the surgery forum, however, the spamming and referral stuff would get WAY out of hand in a hurry. There’s also the immediate enthusiasm posting post-surgery that may indeed give a very false impression of the procedure and it’s effectiveness. One, two, three years down the line can be a different story for surgery patients. Granted, I’ve only known one individual personally that spoke openly about this, but the satisfaction level had a dramatic change as time marched on.

Save for Westla, this type of forum could be rather hard to moderate and watch for misinformation. The surgeons have a monetary motive and an upper hand in the knowledge department. Very hard to argue something disingenuous for the average PEer in such a situation and all the patients are basically guinea pigs.

I voted “Yes! I think this is very important” because it clearly is important, regardless of one’s opinion about the surgery. Men are going to have the surgery. Therefore, a dedicated forum that offered detailed and objective information on the surgery would be an enormous benefit to them. Bottom line. There is a separate hanging forum and a separate pumping forum. The surgery is a sufficiently significant and complex form of PE that it should also have a separate forum.

Originally Posted by westla90069
I voted against because this is a place of manual or natural methods, not surgical. Surgical is the “quick” way, the “easy” way, the one with “instant” gains. But it’s also, as 8-Ball has learned, the way of great disappointment, pain and unfulfilled dreams. I’d rather keep this place focused on manual methods.

It is not true that this is a place of manual or natural methods, not surgical. Every time this is suggested, I go back and check the title of this forum: “Thunder’s Place Free PE Forums.” Nothing in this name suggests a bias against any one form of PE.

Further, surgery has and always will be discussed here, along with other methods. Look at the response to 8-Ball’s thread. Certain people might not be interested in the surgery, or they might think it dangerous. But the same is true of hanging and pumping. There are some men here who simply refuse to hang weights from their dicks or to subject them to any amount of vacuum pressure. To each their own. Those who are not interested in the surgery can simply choose to ignore a forum dedicated to it.

Thirdly, these notions of “manual” and “natural” are misleading, and even wrong. What is natural about using a pump or a clamp and weights? They are both technical devices made by human beings. That is, they are artifactual, not natural. Nor are they manual in any significant sense. Yes, you use your hands to attach the clamp and the weights, and to operate the pump. But then, you also use your hands to do these and similar things post-surgery. The only PE methods that could legitimately be called “natural” and “manual” are jelqing and squeezing and stretching—with the hands only, no devices. But we are well beyond these simple procedures here at Thunder’s. Also, many guys here now take Viagra and Cialis for recreational use, and even to assist them with their PE. This is as medical as you can get. Nothing natural or even manual here, except that you have to use your hands to take the stuff.

As 8-Ball expressed, surgery is not the “quick” or “easy” or “instant” way to a larger cock. It just isn’t. This is particularly true of the lengthening procedure, which requires months of hanging or stretching post-op. In my opinion, the lengthening procedure is really nothing more than an aid to hanging and related exercises, an aid that may be beneficial to those who have found it difficult or impossible to gain length by hanging, etc., alone.

As far as “disappointment,” “pain,” and “unfulfilled dreams” go, just consider the experience of many here with our “natural” and “manual” methods of PE. Lots of injuries, and pain. Lots of hard-gainers, and disappointment and unfulfilled dreams. No method is exempt from risk, and no method guarantees success. Surgery is not unique in this respect.

Originally Posted by groa
Well, this IS a free PE forum…would there be a DIY section to this surgery thing? Free surgeries? Didn’t think so, hence my choice of “strongly opposed”.

Actually, I do see some benefit to the idea, but had to weigh those against the negatives. We may learn many things from the surgery forum, however, the spamming and referral stuff would get WAY out of hand in a hurry. There’s also the immediate enthusiasm posting post-surgery that may indeed give a very false impression of the procedure and it’s effectiveness. One, two, three years down the line can be a different story for surgery patients. Granted, I’ve only known one individual personally that spoke openly about this, but the satisfaction level had a dramatic change as time marched on.

Save for Westla, this type of forum could be rather hard to moderate and watch for misinformation. The surgeons have a monetary motive and an upper hand in the knowledge department. Very hard to argue something disingenuous for the average PEer in such a situation and all the patients are basically guinea pigs.

Originally Posted by groa
Well, this IS a free PE forum…would there be a DIY section to this surgery thing? Free surgeries? Didn’t think so, hence my choice of “strongly opposed”.

Forgive me, but this is really silly. “Free” here means that one doesn’t have to pay to be a member, to have access to the information and discussions available here. It doesn’t mean that the methods themselves are free. A lot of guys here spend quite a bit of money on equipment for PE.

Originally Posted by groa
Well, this IS a free PE forum…would there be a DIY section to this surgery thing? Free surgeries? Didn’t think so, hence my choice of “strongly opposed”.


There’s a pumping forum, and decent pumps like Kaplan pumps and LAPumps charge upwards of $100+ for their pumps. Few people around here have created their own pumps I might add.

As far as the financial incentives by doctors to infiltrate the site (someone else made this point), I would bet that LAPumps and Kaplan made more money this year than any one of those surgeons. Just my guess.

Originally Posted by 24 Hours
There’s a pumping forum, and decent pumps like Kaplan pumps and LAPumps charge upwards of $100+ for their pumps. Few people around here have created their own pumps I might add.

As far as the financial incentives by doctors to infiltrate the site (someone else made this point), I would bet that LAPumps and Kaplan made more money this year than any one of those surgeons. Just my guess.


Agreed, in my humble opinion the devices such as pumps, penis pills, extenders, and so on have a much MUCH higher propensity to infiltrate a site like this with their bullshit and associated spamming. Remember, any jackass can set up shop and start selling shit that doesn’t work when it comes to these “products”. Look at DLD over at MOS selling ROPs and pills. This is simply not the case for surgery.


"If you can conceive it, and you can believe it...then you can achieve it."

Formerly known as Gandolf

In the end it won’t be up to any of us, it will be up to Thunder. The surgery had been performed for many years before he started this place, so he wasn’t unaware of it. I suppose if he’d wanted to include surgery as a “legitimate” PE method and give it a forum, he would have done so.

I am a member at many other PE forums, but don’t recall many, if any, that have a surgery forum. Could there be a consensus of opinion among the site owners that surgery is the antithesis of manual/personal PE?

What would be the point of such a forum? To advance the opinion that surgery is just another form of PE, equal and as valid as jelqing and stretching? How would the main proponents deal with negative comments? Would they try to convince the nay sayer that he was wrong? Or would it turn into one of those endless debates we have here like religion and politics?

Manual methods may not work for everyone, but at least we’re all on the same page as far as being “pro-PE.” The same cannot be said of surgery. It’s a subject destined to elicit strong emotional responses from both sides without, IMO, much benefit to the majority of people who join this site. I doubt many of them come here for info on surgery, rather they join to learn about the manual (or mechanically assisted) methods. Giving surgery its own forum would be a waste of time/space for many.

Thunder made this forum for guys who wanted to change it themselves, not by surgery.

It won’t happen, I don’t want it to.


Did you know America ranks the lowest in education but the highest in drug use? It's nice to be number one, but we can fix that. All we need to do is start the war on education. If it's anywhere near as successful as our war on drugs, in no time we'll all be hooked on phonics

- Leighann Lord

I’m not in favor of a surgery forum. I’m unable to be objective (who can be?…bubble of logic :) ) having 1) been subject to some unnecessary/botched (non-PE related) surgeries and 2) found natural PE to be so tremendously rewarding. I think I’d manage to keep my opinion to myself on this subject were it not for the apparent (to me) irony of 8-Ball’s sig. It appears to be a very appropriate sentiment for natural PE, while replacing “believe” with “afford” succinctly renders it equally appropriate for surgical PE. (Among other things), Thunder’s Place is about helping guys take matters into their own hands. Surgical PE is about (among other things) placing matters into someone else’s hands. IMO. FWIW. No offense intended 8-Ball.


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

Hidden details: Finding xeno: a penis tale; Some photos: Tiger

Tell me, o monks; what cannot be achieved through efforts. - Siddhartha Gautama

Originally Posted by westla90069
What would be the point of such a forum? To advance the opinion that surgery is just another form of PE, equal and as valid as jelqing and stretching? How would the main proponents deal with negative comments? Would they try to convince the nay sayer that he was wrong? Or would it turn into one of those endless debates we have here like religion and politics?

Manual methods may not work for everyone, but at least we’re all on the same page as far as being “pro-PE.” The same cannot be said of surgery. It’s a subject destined to elicit strong emotional responses from both sides without, IMO, much benefit to the majority of people who join this site. I doubt many of them come here for info on surgery, rather they join to learn about the manual (or mechanically assisted) methods. Giving surgery its own forum would be a waste of time/space for many.


I think the point of such a forum would be to provide insight into something that everyone here has probably wondered about and investigated independently. Let’s face it, if you’re insecure about your size, or just want bigger, then you’ve most definitely been curious about surgery regardless of what you’ve ultimately decided.

The thing is there’s NO impartial, unbiased sites or forums regarding PE surgery on the internet that I’ve found. I’ve enjoyed getting REAL legitimate stories from 8-Ball and learning more than I ever could have learned on the subject anywhere else.

For some members it will offer them the opportunity to learn about this method (good and bad) from reliable sources, rather than jumping into the great unknown out of desperation and ruining their entire lives. For some people the natural PE stuff doesn’t work for them. If they are really insecure about their size it would be nice to offer them legitimate surgery info, as they will otherwise likely start googling the doctors sites and use doctors’ before/after pics alone to make their decisions.

Regarding the negative comments: I view the negative comments and intense scrutiny by members as positives. It weeds out those trying to benefit from the new forum. I don’t see it as a negative at all, but more as a filter to help ensure the info remains legit and authentic.

Admit it or not, PE Surgery is just one alternative to what we’re all doing here. Is it best to keep people in the dark, so as not to seemingly endorse something we’re unsure about, or is it best to educate them so that they can make wise and informed decisions?

Sounds like I’m giving a “sex ed in the classrooms” spiel. :D Sorry for that. :D

24-

You make excellent points, except the part about “everyone here”…I can’t believe you’re still subject to that mistake….Anyhoo, I’m no fan of ignorance. And if that’s what this discussion is ultimately about…will guys be left to “fend for themselves” and be exposed to significantly (undefined term) more risk when looking into surgery in the absence of this proposed forum?…then I would consider re-aligning my thinking on the subject. The way that I currently view things is from a not only negatively biased, but also ignorant POV with respect to this subject. But I can tell you how I FEEL about it. I feel about the same about this as I do about the US needing to be the international peacekeepers for planet earth…I hate it that we have to do it, but in some cases we do have to do it. I just don’t know whether we have to do it in this case.


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

Hidden details: Finding xeno: a penis tale; Some photos: Tiger

Tell me, o monks; what cannot be achieved through efforts. - Siddhartha Gautama

Originally Posted by westla90069

What would be the point of such a forum? To advance the opinion that surgery is just another form of PE, equal and as valid as jelqing and stretching? How would the main proponents deal with negative comments? Would they try to convince the nay sayer that he was wrong? Or would it turn into one of those endless debates we have here like religion and politics?

I don’t think this would happen, things certainly haven’t spiralled out of control in my thread so far.

Originally Posted by westla90069

Manual methods may not work for everyone, but at least we’re all on the same page as far as being “pro-PE.” The same cannot be said of surgery. It’s a subject destined to elicit strong emotional responses from both sides without, IMO, much benefit to the majority of people who join this site. I doubt many of them come here for info on surgery, rather they join to learn about the manual (or mechanically assisted) methods. Giving surgery its own forum would be a waste of time/space for many.

I really don’t understand the emotional response part. Those who are opposed to the surgery wouldn’t have to partake. I feel that some of the manual stuff people here do is extreme. For example I tried clamping about a year ago and initially it was working great, I got amazing pumps from it and temporarily gained some girth. After a few weeks I started getting impotent and it got worse and worse and ultimately I gave up the clamping as I deemed it too risky for the potential gains. I still think it should be discussed because it works for some, but you can’t convince me that it’s 100% safe. Even so, when I chime in in a clamp thread I would advise newbies that this is a PE maneuver which has brought some of the users tremendous gains in girth and could be their ticket, but that myself and some others did more harm than good and were just glad to eventually get back to square one with it. Basically you increase your expected reward by taking on more risk and uncertainty, how is this different than the surgery?


"If you can conceive it, and you can believe it...then you can achieve it."

Formerly known as Gandolf

I honestly don’t see how it could be a waste of time/space for many! If you don’t want to learn about surgery, then don’t go to the forum, simple. I think it would be a nice feature and set TP apart from other forums which do not have a surgery section. Isn’t TP about gathering knowledge and making informed decisions.

As far as people possibly getting emotional about the surgery forum I have a great solution. Don’t visit the forum. How simple is that?

I am starting to think that those who actively oppose the creation of the surgery forum are jealous in some way of those who have the financial means and balls to get the surgery done. Also it could be the envy of those who did not have to work as hard for their gains.

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