Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Speaking to Big Gainer soon

Thanks for this Wadzilla. I’m looking forward to reading this and will post my thoughts when I have done so.

01/08/07: 5.75" BPEL, 5.25" EG ::: 26/05/10: 7.3" BPEL, 5.4" MSEG, [My Progress Pics] - [My Routine]

Revised Min Final Objective: [/b] 7.75" BPEL (33% increase), 5.5" MSEG

That’s kind of like saying “I’m sorry you’re an asshat” instead of saying “I’m sorry I called you an asshat”

WE are the 99% 'WE are the people you depend on; we cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls. We drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Don't f&ck with us'-- Madame DeFarge

"Rope trades @$10 a yard. I wonder if they even know that?"- Capitalist

Originally Posted by 3236148PRES
OK OK sorry guys. I was not picking a fight.just replying when being called immature. Regardless of what kind of site this is I still say it is rather odd to post the way he did regarding examining another man taking a piss. If the masses felt this post was helpful to them or worth the read, then I am truly sorry.

If it makes you feel any better, I thought your post was kind of funny.

Originally Posted by androNYC
That’s kind of like saying “I’m sorry you’re an asshat” instead of saying “I’m sorry I called you an asshat”


Hello Wadzilla ,

Just one question for you.
You advocate doing the stretches after the jelqing. This is opposite what the newbie routine says.
Is there any significant advantage of stretching after the jelqs?

Originally Posted by ShyMplsMale

Great work and thank you for your work. It’s much appreciated by myself and the rest of us here.

I do have two question for you. From all of your research, what is your theory on how long a deconditioning break should be? If someone has been into PE for 2-3 years and is hanging 20+ pounds for an hour a day, everyday, for over 4 months and hasn’t gained anything, it’s very unlikely they are going to gain anything and progress well at their conditioned level, in my opinion.

My second question has to do with timing of deconditioning breaks. If one comes back from a deconditioning break and starts gaining again in the first 1-3 months (because from my research, that’s when the majority of gains come back and then some additional ones), when would the time be to start another deconditioning break? If someone gained .25” in EL in their first two months back and in months 3-5, they see nothing while increasing volume progressively, wouldn’t another deconditioning break be a smart thing to do instead of going for another 3 months, adding advanced techniques and hoping for another 1/16” or so?

This may seem a little bit off topic but as you know, Big Gainer (along with many members here at Thunders) have gained very well coming off a deconditioning break. The big questions are when to take one and for how long.

I am wondering the same exact thing as that’s about how heavy I hang and I don’t gain anymore.

Originally Posted by 3236148PRES


Now, that’s no more funny. Change the attitude. If you don’t like this thread, stay away.

Originally Posted by gjurob
If my understanding of these terms is correct, cellular mitosis (or cell division) leads to an increase in the number of cells, while hypertrophy is the increase in the volume of an organ or tissue due to the enlargement of its component cells. Hyperplasia is a process in which the cells remain approximately the same size but increase in number. Based on these definitions it seems logical that the “GvM” theory should be based on the process of hyperplasia, rather than hypertrophy.

Also, muscle building is based primarily on hypertrophy and only to a very small extent on hyperplasia.

This gets rather muddled. Hyperplasia is a different process, of course, but IF this occurs in humans (and to any notable extent), the new cells resulting from hyperplasia would/could also be subject to hypertrophy.

I did a little searching to help explain my concepts better….

This, from wikipedia, is on Hypertrophy

* - Note: As you’ll see, there are even 2 different kinds of hypertrophy - and I referenced that in earlier posts. I had read about this back in the 1990’s from translated Soviet training manuals.

Types of hypertrophy

There are two different types of muscular hypertrophy: sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar (muscles also increase in size due to a small amount of hyperplasia but this contribution is minimal). During sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength. During myofibrillar hypertrophy, the myofibrils, comprised of the actin and myosin contractile proteins, increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is characteristic of the muscles of bodybuilders while myofibrillar hypertrophy is characteristic of extreme weightlifters.

* - Note: The following reference, to Microtrauma, would more closely mirror the concept I refer to as GvM. After the microtrauma (“damage”) is imparted to the tissues “…the body responds by overcompensating, replacing the damaged tissue and adding more, so that the risk of repeat damage is reduced….” [see the “adding more”? I assert, through the EtP model that we do NOT “add more” - we stretch/deform the tissues.]


Microtrauma, which is tiny damage to the fibres, is seen as the basis for hypertrophy. When microtrauma occurs (from weight training or other strenuous activities), the body responds by overcompensating, replacing the damaged tissue and adding more, so that the risk of repeat damage is reduced. This is why progressive overload is essential to continued improvement, as the body adapts and becomes more resistant to stress.

This link from wikipedia differentiates hypertrophy, hyperplasia & neoplasia:

I don’t want to split hairs on such things differtiating between the functions of mitosis and meiosis (we could also include “fission” and “budding”), etc. The general distinctions between what I dubbed GvM and EtP lie in that key phrase “adding more” - and I don’t believe that’s what happens.

Again, to embrace the “adding more,” you need to explain why penile elasticity significantly reduces as enlargement occurs (in roughly 90% of the examples I enumerated); conversely, why that now-spent elasticity returns as shrinkage occurs (which is precisely what I experienced).

If - as according to the “adding more” view (GvM) - we are really “increasing mass,” then why is this increase so much more pronounced in the flaccid size than in the erect? “More” should have been (consistently) “added” to both measurements - such as flexed & relaxed bicep measurements.

Originally Posted by vagabund

You started losing your gains after 3 years without any PE?

I thought gains could be permanently “cemented”.

Is this not the case for some people?

I realize that the first 2 PDFs contain a lot of pages (my apologies), I explain this at length (albeit, sometimes in a rather wordy/redundant manner).

To others, regarding decon breaks… I really don’t know when to take them - it would be arbitrary speculation. What I would say, however, that I would be loathe to stop while I was making gains (this was true for me in weight training as well as PE).

Strike while the iron is hot!……Get while the gettin’s good! etc., etc.

Besides, what if you were just starting to approach your deformation threshold, but arbitrarily decided to take a break? Ouch!

Better to PE until you’ve stalled (at least 4-6 weeks of 0 gains - not even a mm), then take (at least) a 4-6 week break…in my opinion.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
Better to PE until you’ve stalled (at least 4-6 weeks of 0 gains - not even a mm), then take (at least) a 4-6 week break…in my opinion.

I believe this is a good rule of thumb. I waited 10 months too long. Oh well. Better late than never.

Thanks for your input, Wad. Much appreciated :)

If I might be indulged to try this from one more angle…

What limits the amount of hypertrophy a given man might achieve?

Well, there are a lot of factors – such as the muscle’s genetic ability to respond to progressive resistance training on a cellular level (testosterone and protein receptors/synthesis, etc.). But there are also systemic limits – such as the body’s ability (specifically the endocrine system – and levels of catabolic hormones, such as cortisol, etc.) to continue dealing with ever-increasing levels of stress of the more demanding training as well as the larger muscle mass being carried.

Both of those two limitations (local & systemic) can be enhanced/augmented by the use of supplements (protein, creatine, etc.), but especially drugs (steroids, hGH, testosterone, DHEA, etc.). Both of these 2 types of supplements help the body’s ability to build tissue (“adding more”) as well as being able to systemically cope with those changes/stresses.

Why then have we no PE supplements or drugs? If anything, roids can make your package shrink. And the only thing, outside of hypertrophy, that those drugs will “grow” in men is acne & “bitch tits.”

The prevailing view of the GvM theory is that PE stressors “stimulate” the growth – the “adding more” – of actual tissue (“more meat,” if you will). I suppose that explains the inclusion of such gym concepts as “high intensity” training, light days, etc. to the approach of PE, as well as the general idea of trying to find new ways of “adding more.”

The EtP theory holds that we do NOT “add more,” we stretch/deform – literally, “THIN” the walls of the various internal structures – even the tunica. In other words, the dick does not grow “layer upon layer,” it stretches, thins. As the walls of the blood-holding spaces thin, their inner volume increases – as does their capacity to pool more blood. As the tunica stretches/thins, it allows those tissues (trebeculae) more room to also swell/expand.

This clearly places limits on how much deformation (thinning) one might be able to safely achieve. Nutritional supplements or drugs will NOT help you.

I suspect that guys with great elasticity – “growers” – have relatively thicker “walls” and tunica (on a microscopic level, of course). As I figured an average F:E to be about 1.45:1 then the “Big Gainer” had double that level (3:1). This could explain the huge gains he made – thicker material can be stretched more than thinner material (of the same substance, of course), as well as the huge effort required to achieve those gains.

I theorize that once the deformation is “set,” it’s rather “permanent.” However, as I explained in the part about cellular recycling, the tissues themselves are [j]NOT[/i] permanent. Of the more than 200 types of cells in our bodies, the cells of the soft tissues live no longer than 7 years (skin cells, only about 28 days – but skin is clearly not the limiting factor in PE, and skin stretches easily – as per fat people).

So, as the thinned-out cells of my trebeculae were gradually being recycled, my own DNA was replacing those dying, stretched-out cells with the more-original, thicker cells of my genes (thicker cells not stretched out – hold less blood). And the same is true with my tunica.

Thus, after more than 3 years, not only did the internal volume of my penis begin to contract, but the skin around my penis began to reduce in surface area – just like my tunica.

* - Note: If there are any “supplemental” ways to augment PE, I think extensive hot wraps probably are very helpful. As I believe enlargement results from deformation, I believe that damp heat can really help those efforts. In terms of nutritional supplements, perhaps something is to be said of ginseng - a vasodilator, and known about for thousands of years.

EtP Theory - Big Gainer Compendium!

This is everything tied together - the final version. It’s a bit of reading (57 pages) - sorry.

But I hope it helps.

Now, I’ve got to finish this damn restaurant’s web update. And I’ve had this gal’s VHS tapes forever; I need to capture them to DVD format .mpegs then edit & build them (before she has a hissy fit).

Gotta stop procrastinating, lol (I’m a master at that). :)

- w a d

shoot - file limit is 800 kb, mine is 827 kb, try again… :(

Try this…

gotta be kidding me… to big by 0.6 kb

I compressed it enough - but now you need to open it with Acrobat 6 or later.

Shit, gotta go (maybe a mod can bump up the .zip to post #1 & delete the following 2, thanks)

Attached Files

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