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The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Something doesn't add up

It depends what you mean.

Pills are not going to ever make your dick bigger. However, yohimbe, for example, does promote blood flow and increases sensitivity to stimulation. Many of these penis pill supplements contain some amount of yohimbe, as well as L-Arginine, along with a host of usual suspects (horny goat weed, etc., etc.).

I don’t believe they merely elevate blood pressure; though large doses of yohimbe can. Usually, though, the supplements don’t have a lot of yohimbe.

Arginine is documented to help blood vessels expand. It is used by weight lifters to maintain a post work-out pump in their muscles. I believe that it also raises the body’s ability to produce nitrous oxide, which will help with erections.

In short, pills can help with erections - making them firmer and raising one’s sensitivity to stimulation. Beyond that it’s all PE. The pills will never help you “break down” anything, and you will not gain size from them alone.

Personally I think the commercial brands are kind of a rip-off. I think if you want to help your erections out with natural herbs, vitamins and amino acids, you should so some reading. Usually a good L-Arginine supplement (like NoX2) along with a light dose of yohimbe and or ginseng (zinc is good too) will do as much or more as those pre-packaged deals.

Easier on the wallet too.


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:


Last edited by Mr. Happy : 10-09-2006 at .

Originally Posted by the tiger
Here’s another point that doesn’t add up either.

Yes, some people say jelqing and rest days are key for growth to occur, of new tissue.
Others says no rest, keep pounding away at the blood chmabers to make them stretch.

Well it’s either one or the other, yeah everyone reacts differently to certain exercises, but everyones penis is made of the same stuff. Penises either get longer from pounding away with jelqing, not stop, or with rest days and growth.not both. So what is it? Does jelqing actually work for length.

Tiger

Different schemes are closer to ideal during different stages of your PE career.

In the beginning most any reasonably sane program will work to get whatever “easy gains” you may have in store as long as you don’t overtrain. Doing too much is probably a more common mistake than too little because newbies are gung ho and often have, at least subconsciously, the “if a little is good, more must be better” mindset. I suspect those stressing the importance of rest days have made the mistake of overtraining. More days off is one way to help prevent it.

You’ll have to find a balance of intensity, duration and frequency that is best for you at any given time. That holds true regardless of how long you’ve been PEing or what techniques you’re using.

I gained well in the beginning from an infrequent, easy stretching/jelqing routine. Later I had to hang hours every day, often in a semi-fatigued state, to get even a small gain.

I think you’ll find that guys who beat the hell out of their dicks don’t gain well. At times a short “shock routine” works for a spurt, but alternative methods will likely accomplish the same thing with less risk of injury. For example, I had been hanging mostly BTC. I took a month off, then eased into fulcrum and OTS hanging. I had never focused on the upper angles before and made some excellent progress for a couple months.

Originally Posted by the tiger
So how do you get length gains from jelqing? All jelqing is, is pushing the blood to the end of the penal tubes/or wall and making it stretch out so more blood can be held in the penis, essentially making longer. But jelqing does not do anything for the septum, so it stays the same length, and restricts any length gains regardless of the stretching out of the blood chambers. So how is that people claim to gain from jelqing??

tiger,

It is possible that gains from jelqing come from a process called myofascial release. It has been discussed here at Thunders. You can also search on the web for it. It basicly breaks crosslinks between collagen fibers allowing connective tissue to be lengthened.

sheLovesIt

I have no idea

Your stretching doesn’t seem to be long enough to me. But hey what do I know right I’m new to all of this.

Originally Posted by the tiger

Many people on this site, and on the internet in general claim great results for length from jelqing ( not just newbie gains that come from making your erection stronger). But how is it that you can get gains from stretching straight out/hanging at high angles but can also get lengths results from jelqing?

Possibly, there are different mechanisms at work. There may be more than one way to grow a penis.

Stretching and hanging help to elongate the penis’ suspensory apparatus, which provides some slack that may allow for additional growth. The idea is that the penis may grow to the point at which the suspensory apparatus resists. Eliminate the resistance, and additional growth may occur. This growth is primarily inside the body—between the attachment points in the pelvis and the pubic bone.

Jelqing is another idea altogether. When you jelq, you move blood through the penis at high pressure. That may itself promote growth. Internally, the erectile chambers of the penis resemble blood vessels. Blood vessels are known to grow in response to increased blood flow. This is a natural adaptation mechanism “designed” to help make the vessels large enough to accommodate the needs of the tissues they supply.

Jelqing accomplishes some light stretching as well (since the jelqing stroke is a pulling stroke). Also, jelqing increases the pressure inside the penis and can thus help to push on the boundaries from the inside out.

In my opinion, the septum has been improperly identified as a limiting factor. From drawings and dissections that I have seen, the septum consists entirely of circumferential fibers. They run opposite the length direction. Therefore, the septum cannot possibly be a length limiting factor. The structures that limit length are probably the ligaments and the longitudinal fibers of the tunica—primarily those that run down the dorsal side of the penis.


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Originally Posted by ModestoMan
They run opposite the length direction. Therefore, the septum cannot possibly be a length limiting factor.


Huh?

The geometry of the septum’s fibers indicate to me that they’d be a limiting factor for length growth. Thinking Poisson ratio elongation here…1% elongation in the long axis direction (circumferential) represents a lot more absolute magnitude change (growth) than does a 1% elongation in the short axis direction (longitudinal).

To my way of thinking, the septum is a facilitative element for girth growth and a limiting element for length growth.

But that’s just a pre-conceived notion :) . Please do what you can to render it a previously held one.

IOW, what are you thinking?


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

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Originally Posted by xenolith

The geometry of the septum’s fibers indicate to me that they’d be a limiting factor for length growth. Thinking Poisson ratio elongation here…1% elongation in the long axis direction (circumferential) represents a lot more absolute magnitude change (growth) than does a 1% elongation in the short axis direction (longitudinal).

By “circumferential,” I’m referring to the inner layer of the tunica, which wraps around each corpus cavernosa individually. The septum appears to consist solely of fibers from this part of the tunica. “Transverse” might be a better term to use, if speaking of the septum as a separate structure.

The familiar picture I link to below illustrates the point. Note that the fibers shown in the septum (the region of tissue dividing the two corpora) run up and down (transversely), rather than down the length of the penis. Stretching the penis lengthwise therefore does not involve stretching these fibers. It may involve teasing them apart laterally, but that should be relatively easy to do given that the tissue has weak tensile strength in that direction.

Poisson’s ratio relates to narrowing of objects being stretched. This is as wholely different idea.

Attached Images
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Last edited by ModestoMan : 10-28-2006 at .

I wasted my money on pills. pills ===> fail

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
By “circumferential,” I’m referring to the inner layer of the tunica, which wraps around each corpus cavernosa individually. The septum appears to consist solely of fibers from this part of the tunica. “Transverse” might be a better term to use, if speaking of the septum as a separate structure.

The familiar picture I link to below illustrates the point. Note that the fibers shown in the septum (the region of tissue dividing the two corpora) run up and down (transversely), rather than down the length of the penis. Stretching the penis lengthwise therefore does not involve stretching these fibers. It may involve teasing them apart laterally, but that should be relatively easy to do given that the tissue has weak tensile strength in that direction.

Poisson’s ratio relates to narrowing of objects being stretched. This is as wholely different idea.


I am so confused!!! WEAK TENSILE STRENGTH? There are guys in the world who pull freight trains with that weak tensile strength.

The picture you link to does not even show the word septum. When you say that the septum has no strength because they run ‘around the corpus cavernosa, then what is that extremely tight ligament structure that you feel when you pull on the penis from the head? It seems to me that this is the ligament that we stretch to receive the gains we all experience. I experience the tightness of that ligament even under the small amount of weight from PEWeight Rings. Mount a set up and feel the banjo tightness of that ligament.

Please note, however, that your link shows the septum, as you refer to it, extending from the top of the penis under-layer all the way down to the upper side of the Urethra. With this amount of matter there is a considerable amount of stretching necessary to achieve even the smallest amount of gain in length.

My question has to be if the same kind of structure exists all around the corpus cavernosa then how come we don’t experience an equivalent tightness in the form of a ligament on the outside of the penis as well when stretched?


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Sorry. I’m in a hurry. Here’s a little bit of a response. MOre to follow.

Originally Posted by Gray’s Anatomy

The superficial fibers are longitudinal in direction, and form a single tube which encloses both corpora; the deep fibers are arranged circularly around each corpus, and form by their junction in the median plane the septum of the penis. This is thick and complete behind, but is imperfect in front, where it consists of a series of vertical bands arranged like the teeth of a comb; it is therefore named the septum pectiniforme.

http://education.yahoo.com/referenc…/subject?id=262

“Septum” is labeled here: http://www.andrologyjournal.org/con…-03-03-f03.jpeg

By comparing the above-linked drawing to the the one I linked to in post 24, you can see that the identified structure has fibers running only transversely, not longitudinally.

That said, there are lots of things that firmly tether the penis to the body, even though the septum appears not to be one of them. Look especially at the dorsal thickening, the band of longitudinal fibers running down the dorsal surface of the shaft, above the septum, and the paraurethral ridges, which run on either side of the corpus spongiosum.


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Last edited by ModestoMan : 10-29-2006 at .

“Originally Posted by the tiger
Here’s another point that doesn’t add up either.

Yes, some people say jelqing and rest days are key for growth to occur, of new tissue.
Others says no rest, keep pounding away at the blood chmabers to make them stretch.

Well it’s either one or the other, yeah everyone reacts differently to certain exercises, but everyones penis is made of the same stuff. Penises either get longer from pounding away with jelqing, not stop, or with rest days and growth.not both. So what is it? Does jelqing actually work for length.

Tiger”

This is a very narrow and inaccurate way of trying to understand the human body. It is NOT either one or the other. There are far more variables to this that are unconsidered with a statement such as that. Blankly, there are major individual differences. It is no different than nutrition and exercise. Amazingly enough, different people respond differently to diets and exercise, even under the most strictly controlled conditions. This allows generalizations with exceptions to be noted, but nothing further than that.

A very obvious point not considered is the technique used for the exercises. Chances are that if you pick ten of us, we each have a sligthly different way of jelqing that we may not even be able to verbally quantify, but could have profound impact on our results.


UberGoober

6-22-08: 7.5' BPEL, 7' NBPEL, 7.75' BPSFL, 5.25' EG

Goals: 8' NBPEL, 6' EG, 21' NBPSFL

ModestoMan,

Excellent point about the septum not having longitudinal fibers and therefore probably not stronger than the dorsal thickening. I think this tends to reinforces Bib’s BTC hanging angle as this focuses the stress on the dorsal thickening which I feel is most peoples limiting factor.

I am commited to BTC hanging 10-15 hours per week. I am also following the hang while fatigued technique that Bib stressed. This is the start of my 3rd week.

My feelings about jelqing for length is that it is too much work. I hang while I read here on Thunders so essentially hanging takes no time.

As far as jelqing for girth, same thing, too much work. I clamp while watching porn, so again, clamping essentially takes no time.

sheLovesIt

I agree with you sheLovesIt…


Restarting everything.

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