Silver Bullets and Eureka Moments - A Brief Treatise on PE

I’m glad this permanence issue has been brought up once more. So, now that we know that PE isn’t permanent, we also know that all we need to do is light maintenance, and that is a breeze, and no biggie.

Hey,I sure don’t mind at all if I had to do this my whole life!

Addendum

It would seem that, despite my best intentions, some parts of the document are ambiguous and are not being taken in context with what has been stated elsewhere in the document, especially on the question of “Are gains permanent?” So, I have made some minor edits and reformatted it to clarify it further so that it is less open to interpretation and incorrect conclusions. It doesn’t add anything new, the added parts are only a reiteration of concepts and findings explained elsewhere in the document. Hopefully it will help clarify things.

Are gains permanent?
Yes, they can be, but are dependent on a number of factors.
Permanent growth (i.e. Compound Growth - long term growth that requires little or no maintenance) can really only be achieved by increasing the actual physical mass of the penis on a cellular level - more cells = larger penis.
Secondary Growth (i.e. training the penis to increase its capacity to hold more blood when erect) will require maintenance to retain gains and when maintenance ceases, many will see gains subside. How long this takes varies significantly on an individual basis - some will see the gains disappear fairly quickly while others may retain them for several years.
It should also be noted that there is no strict delineation between Primary Growth and Secondary Growth; and between Secondary Growth and Compound Growth - they can, and do, overlap. This explains why some people, whose regimens target Secondary Growth, still retain some gains after extended periods of inactivity - these gains are the effect of residual Compound Growth. Similarly, those who concentrate on Compound Growth may also experience some losses over time which can be attributed to the subsidence of Secondary Growth and short term retraction of scar tissue.
Additionally, there is little data available on what happens to penis size during the ageing process. It may naturally contract or distend - we simply don't know.

A further explanation and recap.
The use of the word “permanent” can be semantically problematic. For example, if you were killed in a car accident tomorrow, your PE gains would have been “permanent” for you! So, in the context of this discussion, “Permanent gains” should be read as, “long term growth that requires little or no maintenance”.

As outlined in the document, all gains can consist of several different kinds of growth. Primary Growth, Secondary Growth and Compound Growth can, and do, coexist. For example, Secondary Growth can also include a percentage of Primary Growth. Similarly, Compound Growth usually also consists of a percentage of both Primary and Secondary Growth. The big difference between these different types of growth is their “permanence”.

Both Primary and Secondary Growth are not “permanent” and, without regular maintenance, will disappear over time. However, Compound Growth (i.e. growth that is neither Primary nor Secondary and remains after they have disappeared) is “long term growth that requires little or no maintenance”.

Compound Growth can also be expressed as a percentage. For instance, in my case, after 6.5 years of complete PE inactivity, I have lost about 25% of my total gains. This would indicate that 25% of my overall gains consisted of a mixture of both Primary and Secondary Growth. The remaining 75% is Compound Growth - long term growth that requires little or no maintenance. Similarly, others have reported losses of around to 50% after stopping all PE for an extended period which would seem indicate that, at present, their gains consist of 50% Compound Growth and 50% Primary and Secondary Growth which have since disappeared. Then there are also those who have lost 100% of their growth which would indicate that all their gains consisted of Primary and Secondary Growth only.

It should also be noted that some methods appear to be better than others in promoting Compound Growth. (See Are some methods better than others for gaining?)

In conclusion, it appears that if you want to keep as close to 100% of your gains as you can, you will need a regular maintenance routine. At present, there is no way of detecting how much of an individual's gains is made up of Compound Growth until they've experienced losses over time. Some men (such as Bib), will be very lucky in having both the physical propensity and the foresight to have used an appropriate regimen to best exploit Compound Growth - they will require very little or no maintenance to retain their gains in the long term. At the other end of the scale, others who, for whatever reason, were unable to achieve Compound Growth, will need a regular maintenance routine to keep any of their gains.

I hope this clarifies the point a little better.

Now, I have an impatient horse and a sunset that beckons!

Adios Amigos!

lil1 :lep:

That is true to an extent, but I think it is a little more complicated than that.

IF you want “permanent” gains, or mostly permanent, certain factors are important. Lil12big1’s excellent document makes sense, one should get into the more advanced stages/types of gains, and I believe this will take some people at least a couple years of full-time PE to attain.

Then the maintenance part. From what I can gather both from experience and a lot of reading, it will definitely be a lifetime thing. I believe the maintenance work will be a little more than just “light and easy” occasional piss-pulls. I’m thinking most of us in the “normal” range will require at least 2 PE sessions per week, of at least half the intensity and/or duration of what our full-time programs were. For me, when I get there (again), I’m thinking 2 sessions per week, about 20 minutes in duration. Some jelqs, squeezes, light pumping. I suppose I am with Chip douglas on that, I would consider that a “breeze” compared with my routine now! I do think it will take at least that much to keep our gains…

From my perspective as a relative newbie.december `09, I can see that PE is a lifetime endevour, and that if you think that you can just jump in and in a few short months gain two inches, you are sadly mistaken

Our society is conditioned to quick and easy results, which is why most people get little out of anything they do.

How many pieces of exercise equipment gather dust in a basement somewhere?

The gains in PE need to be maintained, like the biceps of a bodybuilder.

I am that bodybuilder and I can tell you with absolute certainty that 18” arms become 16” very quickly if you stay out of the gym.

Our dicks grow due to stress outside of the normal scope of use.

If that stress diminishes, the dick will return to it`s original dimensions over time.

The human body is designed for efficiency, and a part that isn`t being used is re-absorbed.

There was an experiment done by bodybuilders some years ago whereby they strapped a guys arm across his chest until it withered, and then built it up again with weights to see what happened.

They knew that the body of the participant would absorb the redundant tissue of the strapped arm as an efficient use of the system.

If we PE for a time our dicks will get longer and thicker, and if we stop the tissue will re-absorb into the body.

This is good news for our bodies as it means they are working the way they are supposed to, and it means that, over time, our dicks will get bigger and stronger.if we`re patient enough to let the bodies natural response to stress work to our advantage.

Now, stop reading and go pull on your dicks!

Interesting, I did PE for six months before I quit smoking with fractional gains. Then in the 6 months after quitting smoking I gained almost the whole inch in that time.

And props to lil12big1 thanks

Very enlightening thread. Great info!