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Rethinking PE-Theory

Guys - I want to state a new provocative hypothesis here.

Remember, this is a hypothesis, not a recommendation. I am a german physician (and pe addict) and although I am posting here incognito I heard that it is possible to track one’s address from internet activities alone and I do not want to spend the rest of my days in prison.

Medical treatments are meant for clinical disorders, not for pe.

HERE WE GO:

I GUESS ALL AGREE THAT STRETCHING YOUR DICK COULD LEAD TO DESIRED PLASTIC DEFORMATION AND CELL MITOSIS 8= ELONGATION9 BUT ALSO TO TISSUE DAMAGE WITH CONSECUTIVE REPAIR MECHANISM WHICH PROBABLY INCLUDE INFLAMMATION AND SCAR TISSUE FORMATION (=SHRINKAGE): SCARS HAVE A TENDENCY TO SHRINK WHICH MIGHT EXPLAIN WHY SOME GUYS COMPLAIN ABOUT LOSING THEIR GAINS TEMPORARILY DESPITE HEAVY EXERCISES:

IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE DEGREE OF INFLAMMATION, SCAR FORMATION AND SHRINKAGE, WHICH COUNTERACT PLASTIC DEFORMATION AND MITOSIS MY TODAY’S HYPOTHESIS WOULD BE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION OF ANTIINFLAMMATORY DRUGS MIGHT COUNTERACT THESE UNWANTED SIDE EFFECTS OF PE:

ONE OF THE BEST AND - IN THE USA OVER THE COUNTER DRUGS WITH THIS PROPERTY WOULD BE ASPIRIN (THREE TIMES A DAY AFTER YOUR MEAL AT A DOSAGE OF 1000 MILLIGRAMS).

Remember - if that makes sense to you, and if you want to give it a try, please be so kind and consult your physician before even considering to give it a try.

Can’t help, I like this thread :)


Later - ttt

What’s with the “shouting” t3? (The sentences with all xapital letters)

Try the bold code, [ b] and [ /b], without the extra space after the first bracket. And chill on the oversized fonts also. That’s for really important stuff like the second coming.


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I would never consider taking that much aspirin with a prolonged PE program. I would think the blood thinning effects alone would be enough to allow for more damage, not less.

If you want less side effects from PE, cut down on the time or force you are using. Much simpler and safer and better results too.

Originally Posted by ticktickticker

ONE OF THE BEST AND - IN THE USA OVER THE COUNTER DRUGS WITH THIS PROPERTY WOULD BE ASPIRIN (THREE TIMES A DAY AFTER YOUR MEAL AT A DOSAGE OF 1000 MILLIGRAMS).

Remember - if that makes sense to you, and if you want to give it a try, please be so kind and consult your physician before even considering to give it a try.

Can’t help, I like this thread :)

Surely you are not suggesting that 3000 mg of aspirin a day is an appropriate dosage for something as common in PE as micro-tears. Maybe we have a language problem here. In the US, aspirin is dispensed at 325 mg per pill. A little more than _9_ of these a day would seriously change the blood clotting factor for many men here. Even 1000mg/day sounds excessive to me for this purpose.

Clarify, please?


_______________

avocet8

On NSAIDs, I was searching under ‘NSAIDs delay healing” etc a while ago and never posted some of the things I came across. I didn’t read all of this, but here are a few things below that may add to a better understanding of what we are trying to do here.

Quote
link
In an early-stage tendon injury, your tendon may have some inflammation (tendinitis). Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are used to reduce inflammation of the tendon and to relieve the pain related to a tendon injury.

If you continue to overuse the injured tendon, over time you may develop a more serious problem—tissue breakdown (tendinosis). Tendinosis is a degenerative condition, rather than an inflammatory one. Some experts believe that NSAIDs may not be helpful for tendon pain caused by degeneration of the tissue and may inhibit healing during the inflammatory stage of an injury. Inflammation is one stage of the body’s healing process and, if it is stopped in progress, there may be a delay in healing.

Quote
link
Anti-inflammatory medicine, like Motrin, Advil, aspirin, Clinoril, Volteran, Prednisone, and cortisone, all inhibit the healing process of soft tissues. The long term detrimental effects far outweigh the temporary positive effect of decreased pain. Aspirin does have a beneficial effect on the heart, but a detrimental effect on soft tissue healing. When a ligament or tendon is injured, prostaglandins are released which initiate vasodilation in non-injured blood vessels. This enables healthy blood vessels to increase blood flow and immune cell flow to the injured area to begin the repair process. The use of anti-inflammatories inhibits the release of prostaglandins thus ultimately decreasing the blood flow to the injured area.

Quote
link
The basic mechanism of Prolotherapy is simple. A substance is injected into the affected ligaments or tendons, which leads to local inflammation. The localized inflammation triggers a wound healing cascade, resulting in the deposition of new collagen, the material that ligaments and tendons are made of. New collagen shrinks as it matures. The shrinking collagen tightens the ligament that was injected and makes it stronger. Prolotherapy has the potential of being 100 percent effective at eliminating and chronic pain due to ligament and tendon weakness, but depends upon the technique of the individual Prolotherapist. The most important aspect is injecting enough of the solution into the injured and weakened area. If this is done, the likelihood of success is excellent.

Quote
more on Prolotherapy
Prolotherapy is defined in Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary as “The rehabilitation of an incompetent structure such as a ligament or tendon, by the induced proliferation of new cells.” It was developed over fifty years ago as a natural non-surgical method of assisting the body in healing injured tendons and ligaments. Prolotherapy helps your body make new cells, which strengthen lax or torn tendons and ligaments. (Ligaments are the tough tissues which connect bones to bones, and tendons are the tough tissue which connect muscles to bones) How can you strengthen tendons and ligaments?

Unlike muscle tissue, exercise cannot build, strengthen, or repair ligaments or tendons. Prolotherapy has been shown to increase the size of tendons and ligaments up to 40%. It has also been shown to increase their tensile strength by as much as 200%. Prolotherapy thickens knee cartilage and relieves the pain of degenerative joint diseases, and no scar tissue is formed (as would be the case in surgical procedures). The tissue formed from Prolotherapy is healthy, strong, flexible ligament or tendon tissue. Once Prolotherapy has repaired the ligament or tendon, the nerves are no longer stretched or irritated, the pain goes away, and normal function follows.

I didn’t read allot of this either, but maybe something in the reverse of what is recommended may be what we are after, here, with PE.

But on the other hand, outside of PE, we do have other connective tissue that we would want to keep healthy. May be a tough choice to make if there are indeed substances, as NSAIDs are being described, that may delay healing in soft and connective tissue.

Quote
link
NSAIDS are more commonly referred to as Non-Steroidal Anti-InflammtorieS, and are prescription or over the counter drugs that can be used to combat pain and swelling associated with an injury. At the recent Society of Tennis Medicine and Science (STMS) meeting, Dr. Babette Pluim gave an overview of NSAIDs and presented some information we should all consider when “prescribing” these drugs for players. Most NSAIDS, whether it is Ibubrophen (e.g. Advil) or stronger drugs like Indomethacin, Celebrex, or Vioxx, are pretty effective at dealing with pain. Tylenol, with the active drug Acetaminophen, is not considered an anti-inflammatory but is often brought up when discussing NSAIDs because they are both used in “pain relief”.

Did you know that…

-The first choice for a pain relief medication should be Tylenol. However, DO NOT EXCEED THE RECOMMENDED DOSAGE - Acetaminophen (the active ingredient in Tylenol) is toxic to the liver and can cause death if taken in excess. Make sure the player is not taking any other drugs with Acetaminophen before taking Tylenol.

-NSAIDs delay muscle regeneration. So if a muscle is damaged, taking NSAIDs will lengthen the time it takes the muscle to heal.

-NSAIDs also delay bone and ligament healing. A sprain or fracture will take longer to heal if a player is on anti-inflammatory medication.

-NSAIDs should really only be used in the first couple of days after an injury, and even then, only the recommended daily dose (as indicated on the package) should be used.

-Cox-2 inhibitors (like Celebrex or Vioxx) should be avoided by tennis players. They may introduce a heightened risk for a “cardiovascular event.”

-In 4-10% of adult patients with asthma, asprin and non-selective NSAIDs may cause an asthmatic attack.

-Chronic use of NSAIDs increases their side-effects.

There are a lot of athletes, including tennis players, who treat NSAIDs as candy - taking them chronically and in large doses. It is important to realize that these drugs do have serious side effects and can limit healing and performance.

Quote
link
In cases of severe acute back pain, doctors may prescribe muscle relaxants. In an acute back injury muscle spasms initially protect the back from further injury by preventing movement. But muscle spasms also cause pain, reduce blood flow and delay healing. Muscle relaxants can cause drowsiness. This may be beneficial if they are taken at bedtime. Anti-inflammatory medications may be just as effective in relieving muscle spasms (inflammation triggers muscle spasms).

Related to the above, slight retraction associated with PE, might be penile tissues trying to protect themselves similar to what is being said about the back.

Also, I read something about a week ago about Advil delaying recovery/the healing process after rotator cuff surgery, but I can’t find it now…

Thunder:

You posted

‘What’s with the “shouting” t3? (The sentences with all xapital letters)’

Sorry - thunder - I ain’t got no xapital letters on my (german) laptop :)

And - please - what do you mean with shouting?


Later - ttt

Gprent -

Thanks for sharing your point of view.

Where is the proof that less weight and time result in better results?

Next: aspirin makes no blood thinning - it just improves it’s fluidity and reduces it’s coagulability

Finally: patients with rheumatic disease take up to 5000 milligrams per day - chronically


Later - ttt

Take TTT seriously about consulting a physician before even thinking about 3000 mg/day of aspirin. Gastrointestinal and auditory side effects are common at that kind of dose, and I wouldn’t recommend the risk to anyone solely for PE purposes.

Avocet wrote:

‘Surely you are not suggesting that 3000 mg of aspirin a day is an appropriate dosage for something as common in PE as micro-tears. Maybe we have a language problem here. In the US, aspirin is dispensed at 325 mg per pill. A little more than _9_ of these a day would seriously change the blood clotting factor for many men here. Even 1000mg/day sounds excessive to me for this purpose.

Clarify, please?’

1. As I pointed out quite clearly in my post I am only stating a hypothesis. I am not suggesting any dosage of aspirin at all, rather, if someone should consider to try antiinflammatory drugs to consult his physician.

2. I spent 2 years in san francisco working at UCSF as a scientist. I published tens of articles in scienticic journals and gave oral presentations of my research results (all not pe-related) at more than 100 occasions, one third at least in english. My stay in The City is some years ago (1987-1989) and I lost some of my precision and vocabulary. But I don’t think that I am having a language problem writing in english.

3. In germany, aspirin pills contain 500 mg, and for efficient pain relief 2 pills after meals are often appropriate. Patients with rheumatic disorders may be prescribed even higher doses.

4. Whether you accept the potential side effects against the questionable benefit, since this is only a HYPOTHESIS is your personal choice, just as the dosage is your personal choice. Your physician will help you with the choice of the drug and dosage (although most would not recommend a treatment where the benefits are questionable AND where the purpose of the ‘disease’ (= wanting a bigger dick) is questionable as well.


Later - ttt

Modesto - thanks for the links.

Yet - I prefer stating my ideas and discussing them with some people here rather than spending the rest of my life reading links (which I all click and print, and will read as soon as I find the time).


Later - ttt

No problem, TTT. One could certainly spend a lifetime reading all the material on this site.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.


Last edited by ModestoMan : 11-20-2006 at .

Tivase wrote and quoted in normal letters and I will reply in his text in capital letters so it will be easy to differentiate who (Tivase) or WHO (ticktickticker) wrote what:

Tivase wrote and quoted in normal letters and I will reply in his text in capital letters so it will be easy to differentiate who (Tivase) or WHO (ticktickticker) wrote what:

On NSAIDs, I was searching under ‘NSAIDs delay healing” etc a while ago and never posted some of the things I came across. I didn’t read all of this, but here are a few things below that may add to a better understanding of what we are trying to do here.

Quote:
Link
In an early-stage tendon injury, your tendon may have some inflammation (tendinitis). Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are used to reduce inflammation of the tendon and to relieve the pain related to a tendon injury.

I ACCEPT THE COMPARISON

If you continue to overuse the injured tendon, over time you may develop a more serious problem—tissue breakdown (tendinosis). Tendinosis is a degenerative condition, rather than an inflammatory one. Some experts believe that NSAIDs may not be helpful for tendon pain caused by degeneration of the tissue and may inhibit healing during the inflammatory stage of an injury. Inflammation is one stage of the body’s healing process and, if it is stopped in progress, there may be a delay in healing.

I DON#T THINK THAT WE ARE GETTING DEGENERATIVE DICK DISEASE; - MY DICK WORKS BETTER THAN EVER SINCE I’M AM DOING PE

Quote:
Link
Anti-inflammatory medicine, like Motrin, Advil, aspirin, Clinoril, Volteran, Prednisone, and cortisone, all inhibit the healing process of soft tissues. The long term detrimental effects far outweigh the temporary positive effect of decreased pain. Aspirin does have a beneficial effect on the heart, but a detrimental effect on soft tissue healing. When a ligament or tendon is injured, prostaglandins are released which initiate vasodilation in non-injured blood vessels. This enables healthy blood vessels to increase blood flow and immune cell flow to the injured area to begin the repair process. The use of anti-inflammatories inhibits the release of prostaglandins thus ultimately decreasing the blood flow to the injured area.

QUESTION IS WHETHER WE WANT TO ALLOW OUR DICKS TO HEAL (=INFLAME; BUILD SCAR TISSUE AND SHRINK): MY HYPOTHESIS IS THAT THE INFLAMMATION SHOULD BE REDUCED. AND THE TYPE OF MEDS QUOTED SPECIFICALLY ACHIEVE THIS.

Quote:
Link
The basic mechanism of Prolotherapy is simple. A substance is injected into the affected ligaments or tendons, which leads to local inflammation. The localized inflammation triggers a wound healing cascade, resulting in the deposition of new collagen, the material that ligaments and tendons are made of. New collagen shrinks as it matures. The shrinking collagen tightens the ligament that was injected and makes it stronger. Prolotherapy has the potential of being 100 percent effective at eliminating and chronic pain due to ligament and tendon weakness, but depends upon the technique of the individual Prolotherapist. The most important aspect is injecting enough of the solution into the injured and weakened area. If this is done, the likelihood of success is excellent.

ONLY ONE SHORT COMMENT: I WOULD NEVER EVER INJECT ANYTHING IN TWO AREAS OF MY BODY: BRAIN – AND DICK:

Quote:
More on Prolotherapy
Prolotherapy is defined in Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary as “The rehabilitation of an incompetent structure such as a ligament or tendon, by the induced proliferation of new cells.” It was developed over fifty years ago as a natural non-surgical method of assisting the body in healing injured tendons and ligaments. Prolotherapy helps your body make new cells, which strengthen lax or torn tendons and ligaments. (Ligaments are the tough tissues which connect bones to bones, and tendons are the tough tissue which connect muscles to bones) How can you strengthen tendons and ligaments?

I DON’T WANT TO STRENGTHEN THE TUNICA AD THE LIGS OF MY DICK BECAUSE AS THEY STRENGTHEN THE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT WOULD INCREASE SO THAT I FINALLY COULD NOT SAFELY ATTACH THE WEIGHT REQUIRED FOR GROWTH WITHOUT RISK OF DAMAGE.

Unlike muscle tissue, exercise cannot build, strengthen, or repair ligaments or tendons. Prolotherapy has been shown to increase the size of tendons and ligaments up to 40%. It has also been shown to increase their tensile strength by as much as 200%. Prolotherapy thickens knee cartilage and relieves the pain of degenerative joint diseases, and no scar tissue is formed (as would be the case in surgical procedures). The tissue formed from Prolotherapy is healthy, strong, flexible ligament or tendon tissue. Once Prolotherapy has repaired the ligament or tendon, the nerves are no longer stretched or irritated, the pain goes away, and normal function follows.

I NO NOTHING ABOUT PROLOTHERAPY – I’LL READ AND POST ON IT’s VALUE AND POTENTIAL RELATION TO WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE: An evidence-based medicine review of prolotherapy for low back pain concluded: If used alone, prolotherapy injections do not have a role in the treatment of chronic low-back pain. When combined with other treatments, they may give prolonged partial relief of pain and disability.[2] Both Medicare and a variety of insurance companies (see, for example, Aetna.com) have so far found “insufficient scientific evidence” verifying either it’s safety or efficacy

THAT WAS QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA; JUST SEARCH PROLOTHERAPY THERE: YOU WILL ALSO FIND THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES DON’T COVER THE COST OF SUCH TRATMENTS 8LIKELY THE REASON WHY I DIDN’T EVEN KNOW IT 

I didn’t read allot of this either, but maybe something in the reverse of what is recommended may be what we are after, here, with PE.

But on the other hand, outside of PE, we do have other connective tissue that we would want to keep healthy. May be a tough choice to make if there are indeed substances, as NSAIDs are being described, that may delay healing in soft and connective tissue.

MY IDEA WAS THAT CHRONIC NON HEALING 8INFLAMMATION IS THE BEGINNING OF HEALING9 WOULD JUST DO THE JOB:

Quote:
Link
NSAIDS are more commonly referred to as Non-Steroidal Anti-InflammtorieS, and are prescription or over the counter drugs that can be used to combat pain and swelling associated with an injury. At the recent Society of Tennis Medicine and Science (STMS) meeting, Dr. Babette Pluim gave an overview of NSAIDs and presented some information we should all consider when “prescribing” these drugs for players. Most NSAIDS, whether it is Ibubrophen (e.g. Advil) or stronger drugs like Indomethacin, Celebrex, or Vioxx, are pretty effective at dealing with pain. Tylenol, with the active drug Acetaminophen, is not considered an anti-inflammatory but is often brought up when discussing NSAIDs because they are both used in “pain relief”.

Did you know that..

-The first choice for a pain relief medication should be Tylenol. However, DO NOT EXCEED THE RECOMMENDED DOSAGE - Acetaminophen (the active ingredient in Tylenol) is toxic to the liver and can cause death if taken in excess. Make sure the player is not taking any other drugs with Acetaminophen before taking Tylenol. TYLENOL IS NOT USED MUCH IN GERMANY; I CANNOT COMMENT ON IT

-NSAIDs delay muscle regeneration. So if a muscle is damaged, taking NSAIDs will lengthen the time it takes the muscle to heal. I DON’T WANT MY DICK TO HEAL – I WANT IT TO BE CHRONICALLY ILL AND GROW:

-NSAIDs also delay bone and ligament healing. A sprain or fracture will take longer to heal if a player is on anti-inflammatory medication. LIGAMENT HEALING MEANS GETTING AS STRONG AND AS S C H O R T AS IT WAS BEFORE: NOT WHAT WE WANT

-NSAIDs should really only be used in the first couple of days after an injury, and even then, only the recommended daily dose (as indicated on the package) should be used. SHOULD – YES: BUT MANY PATIENTS HAVE CHRONIC

-Cox-2 inhibitors (like Celebrex or Vioxx) should be avoided by tennis players. They may introduce a heightened risk for a “cardiovascular event.” THAT IS TRUE – BUT I AM NOT SUGGESTING TO TAKE THOSE; IF AT ALL I WOULD TRY THE GOOD OLD ASPIRIN

-In 4-10% of adult patients with asthma, asprin and non-selective NSAIDs may cause an asthmatic attack. THUS; THEY HAVE AN INCREASED RISK AND SHOULD RECONSIDER7DISCUSS WITH THEIR DOC

-Chronic use of NSAIDs increases their side-effects. SURE: IT’S A DILEMMA: A POSSIBLE CHANCE TO IMPROVE GAINS AGAINST A CERTAIN RISK (BY FAR NOT ALL PEOPLE DO GET SIDE EFFECZTS FROM ASPIRIN)

There are a lot of athletes, including tennis players, who treat NSAIDs as candy - taking them chronically and in large doses. It is important to realize that these drugs do have serious side effects and can limit healing and performance. AS I ALREADY MENTIONED I DON’T WANT MY DICK TO HEAL BUT TO GET JET A LITTLE BIGGER

Quote:
Link
In cases of severe acute back pain, doctors may prescribe muscle relaxants. In an acute back injury muscle spasms initially protect the back from further injury by preventing movement. But muscle spasms also cause pain, reduce blood flow and delay healing. Muscle relaxants can cause drowsiness. This may be beneficial if they are taken at bedtime. Anti-inflammatory medications may be just as effective in relieving muscle spasms (inflammation triggers muscle spasms).
MAKES SENSE

Related to the above, slight retraction associated with PE, might be penile tissues trying to protect themselves similar to what is being said about the back. I WOULD SAY THAT ALL TISSUES ‘WANT’ TO STAY AS THEY ARE; WHEN INJURED; THEY DO WHAT THEY CAN TO GET BACK TO HOW THEY WERE BEFORE THE INJURY: MY HYPOTHESIS WOULD BE THAT ANTIINFLAMMATORY DRUGS MIGHT DISTURBING THIS RESTORE-MECHANISM AND THEREBY FACILITATE DICK GROWTH

Also, I read something about a week ago about Advil delaying recovery/the healing process after rotator cuff surgery, but I can’t find it now..

SO – I THINK THERE WAS NO CONCLUSIVE ARGUMENT AGAINST MY HYPOTHESIS: THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE ARGUMENT IS THAT OF POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS: EVERYBODY#S OWN DECISION: AND DON#T FORGET TO CONSULT YOUR DOC:


Later - ttt

For what it’s worth, I have used moderate doses of ibuprofen (600-1200 mg daily) on and off over my PE career, and I have not noticed any correlation between my use of these drugs and my gains.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

ticktickticker,

I wasn’t necessarily arguing against your hypothesis. Actually, the links would tend to support your thoughts.

However, as some of the information states, not all of NSAIDs is upside. In fact, the negative side effects (delay in soft and connective tissue recovery, which would otherwise be something to be avoided) is what has a potential benefit to PE’ers.

On the one hand, all of this is just ironic in that most people take NSAIDs when injured, but NSAIDs are shown to actually delay the healing process. Odd…

But again, there are other tissues that need to repaired on a regular basis, so taking NSAIDs to assist in PE is something that that has to be weighed against. I suppose that taking a reasonable amount, as in the equivalent of a baby aspirin wouldn’t promote just falling apart at the seams.

But in spite of the information, ModestoMan says that he doesn’t believe that ibuprofen (which is Advil, right?)has had a role in his gains.

Modesto, do you have a log of gains with and without ibuprofen? Or have you been on ibuprofen the entire time you have been PE’ing?

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