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Results of my Wrapping Experiment

12

Results of my Wrapping Experiment

Since I’ve done hardly any PE at all during the past 5-6 weeks, I’ve been wearing a velcro wrap (until some damn dog chewed it up). And I’ve found out the answers to several questions - at least as they pertained to me.

[1] Flaccid size will increase from velcro wrapping (I was doing, on average, about 10 hours per day - I just avoided overnight wrapping).

[2] My flaccid penis became rather distorted from velcro wrapping - i.e., “baseball bat effect” and it seemed rather heavy, even soggy.

[3] Conclusion #2 leads me to believe that the size “increases” from wrapping were soley due to fluid buildup from compromised circulation; akin to, albeit on a far smaller scale, the “liquid woodies” from vacuum pumping. I don’t believe there were any PE-type gains, such as the expansion of the blood-holding chambers associated with impaction exercises or of course any plastic deformation.

[4] Conclusions #2 and #3 lead me to believe that flaccid size “gains” from wrapping are not permanent. In fact, only a few days off the wraps and my flaccid size is exactly where it was just prior to engaging in about 400 hours of wrapping during the past 6 weeks.

I believe that velcro wrapping for a while after a PE session can help keep blood trapped in those worked tissues, which might be beneficial. Also, velcro wrapping for pumpers probably helps them to retain their post-tube size for much longer periods between pump sessions.

But I’ve concluded, after 400 hours of wrapping, that velcro wraps contribute to zero gains of true size - only water weight. I suspect that the only way to truly increase your flaccid size is to continue to make PE gains. In fact, my flaccid:erect gains have been virtually 1:1.

Great info Wad. Maybe I can stop wearing my wrap for so long after a stretch session. How long do you think would be a good cut off time? I mean if I wear it for 5 hours after a stretch session, do you think wearing for two will do about the same thing? I guess what I am trying to ask (rather badly apparently) is if there is a point after a session when the wrap does no more good, and can we really determine when that threshold has been reached?


-rtg

RTG,
Personally I’m not sure that wrapping after a stretch session, as opposed to a jelq/girth session, will do much anyway. It might be more beneficial to improvise an ADS device and wear that for a few hours. But if you like to wrap after a stretch session, I would suspect that you’re not getting any “additional benefits” after an hour or two - let alone 5 hours.

For PE to work, certain conditions must be met. Think about this: when you wrap, what are you doing? Keeping maybe a 75% chubby? Who cares? You’re neither pushing those blood-holding chambers to their outer limits (as with standard impaction exercises) or stretching the tissues beyond the range of normal elasticity, into the realms of plasticity. You’re just impeding circulation, causing fluids to build up.

Take a look at the newer quote in my sig, by King: “…a tragic misconception of time, from the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time….”

Of course, his letter was a literary masterpiece and dealt with a far more serious issue, but look at what he says about Time. We can apply it to what we’re doing by saying, “If you’re not meeting the conditions to make gains, no amount of Time matters.”

You can wrap for 16 hours per day for 2 years (11,680 hours), but if you’re not meeting the “conditions for growth” during those first 10 hours, will the following 11,670 hours make any difference???

When the “conditions for growth” are being met, such as with a traction device like the PM, or with hanging, or stretching, then Time can mean all the difference in the world. It can be used “constructively.”

Wrapping, in and of itself, doesn’t meet any of the “conditions for growth.” So no amount of “time under wraps” will matter, in terms of true gains.

As I’ve said, wrapping can help pumpers and it can help, perhaps, after an intense girth session; how much, I don’t know. And if you’re self-conscious about your flaccid size and you’re in a situation where you have to keep revealing it (such as a student in the gym locker rooms), then wrap by all means - and your flaccid will look larger. If you’re self-conscious about an upcoming physical at the doctor’s office, or maybe a nude beach you’re thinking of attending, wrap wrap wrap - all the way up to the last moment.

Just don’t expect any actual gains from wrapping. Only when the “conditions for growth” are met will there be any growth.

So do you not buy into the micro-tear theory of lengthening? Because it would seem to me (just rationally, not based on any study or anything, which may be my problem) that if I am causing micro tears which we want to heal in an expanded state then stretching your unit out beyond a normal relaxed state would keep those tears more “open”; thus lending to an environment that would encourage the healing of those tears in an expanded state. Am I off base in my thinking?


-rtg


Last edited by RoomToGrow : 02-16-2005 at . Reason: forgot to spell check

Okay, I have a question for you then. I assume you believe ADS/traction wraps are purely cosmetic. So, how long does the increased size last? Days or maybe a week from when you completely stop? I have severe hamster dick in which it retreats like a scared dog under the table at the sound of lightning or fireworks.


“You see, I don’t want to do good things, I want to do great things.” ~Alexander Joseph Luthor

I know Lewd Ferrigno personally.

I recently posted some threads about “distraction histogenesis.” This is a process whereby new tissue actually grows in the direction of applied traction. It happens during leg lengthening surgery and certain types of facial/dental surgery, and is well documented (sort of).

Is it possible that wrist wraps or other ADS do something similar? Could they apply a small amount of traction, certainly less than that required for plastic deformation, but still enough to promote distraction histogenesis?

If so, this could have the effect of increasing flaccid size, because the intercavernosal tissue would grow. As the tissue within the CCs grows, it pushes harder against the tunica, even when flaccid. Erect size would not necessarily grow, as the tunica itself is not expanded, but the flaccid tunica might yield somewhat to the greater internal tissue volume.

Just an idea.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

>>RTG:
“So do you not buy into the micro-tear theory of lengthening? Because it would seem to me (just rationally, not based on any study or anything, which may be my problem) that if I am causing micro tears which we want to heal in an expanded state then stretching your unit out beyond a normal relaxed state would keep those tears more “open”; thus lending to an environment that would encourage the healing of those tears in an expanded state. Am I off base in my thinking?”

So-called “microtearing” may contribute somewhat to lengthening, but I think this is more a process of plastic deformation. Remember, the ligs, septum, etc. must also lengthen, because the penis can’t just grow ahead of those tough connective tissues. I think what you’re talking about applies more to girth.

>>twat:
“I assume you believe ADS/traction wraps are purely cosmetic. So, how long does the increased size last? Days or maybe a week from when you completely stop?”

An ADS, if connected properly, actually places tension on the penile tissues. Remember, those PM devices only exert maybe 1-2 lbs of pull on the penis - nowhere near what guys use for hanging; they’re also worn 8-12 hours per day.
But the “puffiness” from velcro wrapping is basically “cosmetic,” as you put it. That’s a case of fluid buildup due to compromised circulation. I can’t generalize, but in my case the increased size only lasted maybe 3-4 days after quitting, if that.

There could also be some negative side effects from wrapping. By hindering free circulation, you’re trapping waste products in the penis for long periods of time. I wonder if this could be detrimental if done for months, years, etc.

>>Mo:
“I recently posted some threads about “distraction histogenesis.” This is a process whereby new tissue actually grows in the direction of applied traction. It happens during leg lengthening surgery and certain types of facial/dental surgery, and is well documented (sort of).”

If I’m not mistaken, those cases of bone lengthening “growing in the direction” of the traction were actually breaks in the bone, caused by the surgeons, then slightly separated. What happened, in effect, was that a calcium bridge eventually spanned the break. This was very controlled, of course, and those brutal-looking scaffolds were kept on constantly and only the surgeon adjusted the tension knobs.

>>”Is it possible that wrist wraps or other ADS do something similar? Could they apply a small amount of traction, certainly less than that required for plastic deformation, but still enough to promote distraction histogenesis?”

An ADS does “meet the requirements for growth” - if it’s of sufficient tension (at least 1-2 lbs of force) and kept on long enough (10-12 hours per day). After all, that’s what the PM and other devices do.

>>”If so, this could have the effect of increasing flaccid size, because the intercavernosal tissue would grow. As the tissue within the CCs grows, it pushes harder against the tunica, even when flaccid. Erect size would not necessarily grow, as the tunica itself is not expanded, but the flaccid tunica might yield somewhat to the greater internal tissue volume.”

I’m not sure I understand this. If you’re developing “greater internal tissue volume” within the cavernosa, how would erectile size remain unchanged?

I posted some thoughts on this subject earlier:

“A few years ago, a friend of mine got burned badly in a fire. He was kept sedated for a few weeks in the hospital before they let him wake up, it was that bad. He told me that in the hospital, they had been scrubbing of the scab tissue that was on the top of the surface every day, using a soft carpet-like brush at first and later a stiffer plastic brush. The point was that when you get a scab, the new tissue tries to heal up against it, and since the scab is in the way you get uneven structures of the tissue = visible scar tissue. So by taking away the scabs, the new tissue could grow unhindered and smoothly, covering the surface.

This was not enough, however, as you still get scar tissue; the tissue did not grow back smoothly enough to be invisible, and so he had to wear a tight body dress (in his case over the entire body, since the burns were splotched a littel all over the place, mostly on his back and back of legs). This was an expensive super duper textile that placed an even pressure all over the skin - the constant pressure nudged the tissue in the skin to get even smoother. Apparently, when tissue regrows all over the place, the cells are arranged stocastically (all jumbled) = visible scar tissue. By keeping pressure on the entire surface, the tissue slowly regrouped itself in a-stocastic patterns (all lined up) = not so ugly skin.

If the same is applicable to the healing of ligs and tunice - and it most likely is - then it would make sense to keep the member not only elongated during healing but also under slight pressure, to nudge the healing of the tissue to arrange itself lengthwise.

So for elongating purposes, a traction wrap should be a good idea. And thinking of it, a wrist wrap around the base that keeps the unit engorged should do the same thing - only the pressure is from the inside rather than the outside.”

While I haven’t been traction wrapping as long as Wad has wrapped, I feel that my current routine of stretching, MrOrange bends and wrapping for 5-10 hrs a day (using a elastic cotton wrap) is doing good for flaccid size in general and erect girth. Length I haven’t noticed - no measures done.

regards,

So what you are saying is if you really want length gains hanging or an ADS, like the PenisMaster, are the best ways to acheive that goal. That is actually a conclusion I have been coming to for about a week now. I know that some have seen gains by just manually stretching, but I figured that the most productive method of gaining length is consistent load/pressure+consecutive amount of time under load. THe two methods I mentioned before are the only ones that meet those two conditions. But I am still going to wrap after stretch sessions because it makes me feel better….lol.

Does anyone here hang without their wife/live-in SO knowing? That’s the reason I don’t hang. I don’t think I can do it without my wife knowing, and I know she will flip if she knew I was hanging weights from my unit. I guess I’ll have to invest in an ADS that can be worn conspicuously.

Thanks for all the info Wad. I tend to agree with you on this one.


-rtg

Originally Posted by wadzilla

If I’m not mistaken, those cases of bone lengthening “growing in the direction” of the traction were actually breaks in the bone, caused by the surgeons, then slightly separated. What happened, in effect, was that a calcium bridge eventually spanned the break. This was very controlled, of course, and those brutal-looking scaffolds were kept on constantly and only the surgeon adjusted the tension knobs.

Correct. However, other soft tissues that surround the bone grow as well. Skin, muscles, nerves, tendons, ligaments, and blood vessels all have to grow, as the bone is being distracted. These soft tissues don’t merely stretch—new tissue is created along the lines of appllied stress.

Originally Posted by wadzilla

An ADS does “meet the requirements for growth” - if it’s of sufficient tension (at least 1-2 lbs of force) and kept on long enough (10-12 hours per day). After all, that’s what the PM and other devices do.

Sure, if that’s the way to PM works.

Originally Posted by wadzilla

I’m not sure I understand this. If you’re developing “greater internal tissue volume” within the cavernosa, how would erectile size remain unchanged?

Erect size and shape are defined by the tunica, not by the contents of the CCs. ONce the tunica is “unfurled” during an erection, it is extremely stiff and inflexible. Witness the fact that it barely expands beyond normal erect size even when doing an extreme ULI. More tissue inside the CCs might partially “unfurl” the tunica when flaccid, simply because the greater volume pushes harder on its inner surfaces. However, erect length will only change if the tunica changes.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Correct. However, other soft tissues that surround the bone grow as well. Skin, muscles, nerves, tendons, ligaments, and blood vessels all have to grow, as the bone is being distracted. These soft tissues don’t merely stretch—new tissue is created along the lines of appllied stress.



Mo,
As we’ve mentioned a number of times, skin growth isn’t a big deal, it’s not a limiting factor - witness how easily fat people grow more skin. The same with blood vessels (each additional lb of stored fat represents another 1/4 mile of cappillaries - hence, gaining 20 lbs of fat requires your heart to pump through an additional 5 miles of cappillaries).

And I’m not sure you can substantiate that last sentence. Remember, hyperplasia has never been confirmed in humans; it is, as yet, merely a theory. I’m not sure about the nerve tissues either. My cousin’s husband of 20 years was in a bad motorcycle wreck just after they were married. He sustained major nerve damage to his right arm, and can barely use it to this day. So, he didn’t develop any new nerve tissue in 20 years.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan

Erect size and shape are defined by the tunica, not by the contents of the CCs. ONce the tunica is “unfurled” during an erection, it is extremely stiff and inflexible. Witness the fact that it barely expands beyond normal erect size even when doing an extreme ULI.

Agreed. I’ve always visualized this akin to a balloon. Nature designed the penis remarkably. If the tunica were always “rigid,” we’d be erect 24-7. But by being so dense, it only becomes rigid because of the pressure increases of the swelling soft tissues. But if the tunica were less dense, we’d have a floppy erection that seemed a different shape all the time. If we couldn’t successfully achieve penetration, the species would die out.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
More tissue inside the CCs might partially “unfurl” the tunica when flaccid, simply because the greater volume pushes harder on its inner surfaces. However, erect length will only change if the tunica changes.

So, you seem to be saying that by “growing more soft tissue” (but not more tunica capacity), we could maintain a partial chubby all the time? The problem is: (1) I’m not sure you could even do that because if you’re not pushing the tunica to it’s outer limits, how could those soft tissues grow beyond their present size?, (2) What happens during erection? With “more tissue,” but less room to grow, could you even achieve a full erection? and (3), Would a rock-hard erection then hurt like hell?

I’ll take your final sentence and amend it to this: Any state of length - flaccid or erect - will only change if the tunica changes. [exempting, of course, lig gains]

Originally Posted by wadzilla
>>RTG:
“So do you not buy into the micro-tear theory of lengthening? Because it would seem to me (just rationally, not based on any study or anything, which may be my problem) that if I am causing micro tears which we want to heal in an expanded state then stretching your unit out beyond a normal relaxed state would keep those tears more “open”; thus lending to an environment that would encourage the healing of those tears in an expanded state. Am I off base in my thinking?”

So-called “microtearing” may contribute somewhat to lengthening, but I think this is more a process of plastic deformation. Remember, the ligs, septum, etc. must also lengthen, because the penis can’t just grow ahead of those tough connective tissues. I think what you’re talking about applies more to girth.

I don’t quite get what you mean - considering the tunica doesn’t ballon like a bicycle tube, I think it is safe to say that the tunica is pretty much equally strong in all directions. What I mean to say is that if valid at all, the microtearing theory would apply equally to length and girth. And just exactly what is plastic deformation when we are talking of tissues? Metals yes, but for tissues? I believe there has to be some rearrangement, however small, and that when we talk of living tissue this would result in damage, however small, that in return would have to heal.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
>>”Is it possible that wrist wraps or other ADS do something similar? Could they apply a small amount of traction, certainly less than that required for plastic deformation, but still enough to promote distraction histogenesis?”

An ADS does “meet the requirements for growth” - if it’s of sufficient tension (at least 1-2 lbs of force) and kept on long enough (10-12 hours per day). After all, that’s what the PM and other devices do.

Where does the 1-2 lbs come from? And where do the 10-12 hrs come from - what supports that this would be a threshold for growth? I know that JES-extender and the others elaborate with 0,5 kg and upwards, but I don’t know where they got it from. As far as I can tell, the number of participants in the tests were too few, and the alternatives lacking, to draw any clear conclusions.

regards,

This is the question bandied back and forth…forth and back.

I believe that there may be SOME micro-tears but really when you’re a child and growing, cellular growth doesn’t take the form of “tears” but cellular division. A multiplication of division. I don’t think growth is destructive in nature.

Loosely stated, I don’t want a penis made up of scar tissue!

I think that a cell that is stretched consistently will divide. Its genetic makeup wants it to stay in a pre-determined size and shape. Some cells are more rigid than others, like bone cells for instance-more dense and closer together.

Us hard gainers need to lengthen the time in a hanger, in the pump, in the stretch mode to “throw the switch” telling that cell that its new job is to expand and divide, expand and divide until the stretch command is stopped.

So far so good.

Originally Posted by jays0423
This is the question bandied back and forth…forth and back.

I believe that there may be SOME micro-tears but really when you’re a child and growing, cellular growth doesn’t take the form of “tears” but cellular division. A multiplication of division. I don’t think growth is destructive in nature.

Loosely stated, I don’t want a penis made up of scar tissue!

I think that a cell that is stretched consistently will divide. Its genetic makeup wants it to stay in a pre-determined size and shape. Some cells are more rigid than others, like bone cells for instance-more dense and closer together.

Us hard gainers need to lengthen the time in a hanger, in the pump, in the stretch mode to “throw the switch” telling that cell that its new job is to expand and divide, expand and divide until the stretch command is stopped.

So far so good.


This is a hotly debated topic. But jays, why do you insist on equating microtearing/healing with “scar tissue”? I’ve heard this from so many guys here. If microtearing/healing necessarily produced scar tissue, then my entire body should be a mass of scar tissue from all of the weight training I did for years.

I fully understand that striated skeletal muscle is not the same tissue as smooth muscle; however, scarring isn’t a result of microtearing/healing with striated muscle, so why should that connection be automatically assumed with smooth muscle? Or with collagen? Or with any of the other structures of the penis.

I’m not a biologist by any means, so I don’t pretend to know if “growth” is due to cellular division or simply to new cells being spontaneously generated. Nor do I know if growth in different types of tissues (striated muscle, smooth muscle, bone, ligament, etc.) is manifested differently. But a prevailing PE theory, at least regarding impaction exercises, is that by repeatedly forcing greater amounts of blood into the CC/CS, they enlarge. Now, do they enlarge by stretching or do they enlarge by microtearing/healing? Who the hell knows; albeit, I would agree that this is something worth finding out (as per PE strategy), but I seriously doubt that anybody on this board has the expertise and the scientific resources at their disposal to conduct “scientific research” on that topic.

But if the spongy tissues simply stretch, then “more is better.” If those tissues do microtear, and healing is required, then we obviously need rest time in between sessions; perhaps more or less than some guys imagine.

Two more points: I’ve heard doctors say that you can’t enlarge smooth muscle tissue. This is bullshit, because I’ve also heard doctors say that the hearts of elite athletes enlarge - sometimes significantly. And the heart is composed of SM tissue. So, wtf?

Also, heavy weight training has significantly increased the thickness of my bones. From benching 435 (and also doing much heavier for partial movements in the power racks - including close-grip lockouts, top 6-8”, with 575 lbs), I have horse bones in my arms. I can easily palm a basketball, but I can’t get either hand around either wrist - and there ain’t no fat on my wrists. And my bones have remained huge even after years removed from such training.

You can build striated muscle, smooth muscle, tendons, ligaments and even bones. However, the denser the structures, the less the circulation and the longer it takes to increase the size of that structure. And, of course, I’m not talking about increasing the length, but rather the thickness of those structures. Length is generally a fixed point (i.e., bone & muscle), but you can obviously stretch tendons and ligaments; although, an abruptly stretched tendon or ligament usually results in injury. And most athletes don’t want their ligaments too loose because this promotes joint instability.

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