Thunder's Place

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Read - The Second PE Survey -- A Thunder's Place group project

Originally Posted by Para-Goomba
:funpost:

I don’t know if you have seen one of the recent thread titles for the penis enlargement link polls that keep changing, but this one cracked me up:

WestLA is coming out of the closet: I am a hetrosexual.

Absolutely hilarious.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by Para-Goomba

My impression is that guys think heat is especially important for stretching & hanging. Hence my inclusion of extra questions for those two exercises (degree of heat). If I’m wrong about what heat purportedly matters for, I hope someone will speak up.

I like heat with jelqing, clamping and pumping too.


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

Hidden details: Finding xeno: a penis tale; Some photos: Tiger

Tell me, o monks; what cannot be achieved through efforts. - Siddhartha Gautama

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
Those two polls are retired to the Poll Forum now and are not being force fed to the members any longer.

Thats sad. They were quite entertaining.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by Para
Remek & others, please note that the new draft will break down some of the existing sections into multiple sessions. The idea is that an impatient participant could fill out the basic beginning info about outcomes & regimen, and we’d still have useful data from them to analyze. The more patient participant will provide more detail in the later sections. The programmer suggested I do this.


I completely agree with this. In fact, following this train of thought, I believe it would be better to switch the sections around:
Section I: Basic PE Outcomes
Section II: Your Basic PE Regimen
Section III: PE-Related Variables
Section IV: Details about Your PE Outcomes
Section V: Details about Your PE Regimen

The last two sections are the longer, difficult sections for the “patient participant.” The first three sections are the easy sections that will allow us to gather a lot of knowledge— even if the participant doesn’t finish.

changes in section one

Originally Posted by changing question 8 on wiki
8. How much, if at all, has your flaccid size changed from PEing? Please do not consider “temporary” flaccid gains (e.g., a post-jelqing pump) when answering this question.
__ My flaccid size is the same as it was before PEing
__ My flaccid size is smaller than it was before PEing.
__ My flaccid size is bit larger from PEing: occasionally, my penis hangs longer and/or heavier than it did before PE.
__ My flaccid size is significant larger from PEing: most of the time, my penis hangs longer and/or heavier than it did before PE.
__ My flaccid size is much larger from PEing: it almost always or always hangs substantially longer and/or heavier than it did before PE.


Question originally stated “my flaccid size is the same or smaller than it was before PEing.” This is slightly biased, and in the coding, a smaller flaccid size would be recorded no different than a flaccid size that did not change.

There are no changes in section two

changes in section three

The caffeine question:
Is an energy drink equivalent to 2/3rd’s a cup of coffee? I will research more on this before we post the final survey.

The supplements question
I see you separated the Viagra section into three:
__ Viagra (or the generic equivalent)
__ Levitra (or the generic equivalent)
__ Cialis (or the generic equivalent)

Is there a significant difference between these three? I am not a Viagra expert, but I believe Levitra, Cialis, and vigra-type to generally be the same supplement in a different form. If it is the same supplement, I think it would be a bother to question someone times 3, when one would suffice.

Also, I noticed you took “penis enlargement pills” off the list. I might come off kind of strong in the next three paragrahs, and for that I apolgoize in advanced. Before I go any further, I want you to know, I in no way support those who sell penis enlargement pills. Prying on the insecurities of men is a big no-no in my book. My problem with penis pills is not whether they work, it is their price. The pill companies market the prices so high, because they no some men will do anything for a bigger penis. It is very sad, very deceitful, and very wrong.

This is why we owe finding the truth behind the pills to the men on this forum, and other men around the world who want a bigger dick. We have the capability to find adequate data on penis enlargement pills. Not using this capability would be abusing our power in my opinion. We cannot let our biased opinions get in the way of what we shouldn’t test. Furthermore, if we do find that they do help, we owe it to the people to find a sufficient replacement.

Have I persuaded you yet? If not, I want to remind you that my last survey results were very scary, to say the least. What if the results were in fact an error due to bad wording? I don’t want to be spreading the word that penis pills do help, if they really do not.

changes in section four

Originally Posted by Para
10. This is a question about ”PE “plateaus.”” After beginning to achieve PE gains (if you have achieved any), have you ever experienced a period of at least 6 weeks of continuous PEing during which you achieved no gains? If so, after how many consecutive weeks of active PEing did this “plateau” begin? (For example, if I made gains exercising the penis for 10 weeks, but then experienced an 8 week period of no gains from my penis exercises, then my answer would be “10”.) Please skip this question if you have never experienced a ”PE “plateau.”” If you have experienced more than one “plateau,” please consider your first one when answering this question. ____ weeks

Great question adding PG. :thumbsup: Along with the lot questions, I like this one.
One thing I changed on this question was the word “jelqing.” Jelqing could confuse the user — Unlikely, but possible. Instead, I used the words “exercise the penis,” and “penis exercises.”

Subsequent to question 10, I would like to add the following question:

11. When you experienced a plateau, what was the status of your erection quality compared to your pre-PE erection quality?
__ When I hit a “plateau,” my erection strength was the same as it was before PE.
__ My erection quality was stronger during the time I experienced a “plateau,” than it was before PE.
__ My erection strength was weaker during the time I experienced a “plateau,” than it was before PE.
[NOTE TO PROGRAMER: Radio buttons: The first option should be coded as “0”; the second option should be coded as “1”; and the last option should be coded as “-1”]

The reasoning behind question 11: There isn’t too much talk about how exactly the penis becomes “healthier” (i.e. stronger erections, more frequent erections, etc.). Some men believe PE throws the penis into a bodily response. It strengthens as a defense mechanism. This hypothesis states that when a plateau happens, the penis has reached a “certain” level in which the penis tissues are not as malleable as before – in turn, making the erection quality much stronger.

Regarding the injury questions … I like your edits. When I created them, in fear of the survey growing too big I left out quite a bit of injuries. However, with my current knowledge, I think you did a terrific job tuning them up.

changes in section five

WOW. Great detailed questions added PG. You have consistently brought great things to this project.

Here are a few things I noted, you can tell me what you think:

The intensity when referring to clamping and girth squeezes are as follows:
__ I squeeze the hell out of my dick; I’m probably on the verge of injury every time I perform my girth squeezes.
__ I squeeze pretty darn hard; my penis looks fairly scary during a good girth squeezing session.

Although I like the answer choices, and find them quite funny :) , I don’t think they are useful, and here is why:
Answer choice 1: “I am probably on the verge of injury every time I perform my girth squeezes,” and Answer choice 2: “My penis looks fairly scary during a good girth squeezing session,” are two different types of measurements. One states how the penis looks, the other states how the penis feels. For more consistent results, I suggest changing it to the following:

__ I squeeze the hell out of my dick; I squeeze about as hard as I can, to the point that it’s sometimes uncomfortable.
__ I squeeze with fairly high intensity, but never to the point that there’s any discomfort.
__ I squeeze with moderate intensity (i.e., with less intensity than the two categories above).

Hanging and pumping both need a question regarding average weight/pressure.
Something along the lines of “What average weight, in pounds, do you believe brought you the best results when hanging?”

I talked to the programmer late last week about a time frame. He said 8 days (from last wed, I think) would be the best time. But he will take the project up to 14 days – no later. I think we will have it finished by Thursday. But if not, then we will have to play it by ear.

I have to go do some work. I will be back later tonight.
Also, the post office called. I finally received the book I ordered over a month ago from Amazon.com, titled: “How to Conduct Surveys : A Step-by-Step Guide” by Arlene Fink. I am going to see if it has any useful information in it.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by remek
The last two sections are the longer, difficult sections for the “patient participant.” The first three sections are the easy sections that will allow us to gather a lot of knowledge— even if the participant doesn’t finish.

I considered doing it that way. I’d like to hear more votes about the best way to do it. I prefer the way I did it because that’s how I see the relative informational weight of the various sections, but I understand that reasonable people will disagree about this.

Originally Posted by remek
Question originally stated “my flaccid size is the same or smaller than it was before PEing.” This is slightly biased, and in the coding, a smaller flaccid size would be recorded no different than a flaccid size that did not change.

How is it biased? I assume that no one’s penis actually shrank from PEing; I only included the “smaller than” bit to make the question less “biased” seeming. Maybe the first option should just be “the same as”?

Originally Posted by remek
Is an energy drink equivalent to 2/3rd’s a cup of coffee? I will research more on this before we post the final survey.

They vary A LOT, along with coffee and soda. Please do research, though, and post your results if they differ from the current coding.

Originally Posted by remek
Is there a significant difference between these three?

Yes, they are all different drugs, with different dosages. Plus, Cialis lasts about 8 times longer in the body.

Originally Posted by remek
Also, I noticed you took “penis enlargement pills” off the list.

It wasn’t on the list, was it? I will include it if you had meant to include it. No problem.

Originally Posted by remek
One thing I changed on this question was the word “jelqing.”

Excellent catch.

Originally Posted by remek
11. When you experienced a plateau, what was the status of your erection quality compared to your pre-PE erection quality?

__ When I hit a “plateau,” my erection strength was the same as it was before PE.

__ My erection quality was stronger during the time I experienced a “plateau,” than it was before PE.

__ My erection strength was weaker during the time I experienced a “plateau,” than it was before PE.

[NOTE TO PROGRAMER: Radio buttons: The first option should be coded as “0”; the second option should be coded as “1”; and the last option should be coded as “-1”]

I’ll add this, although I’m not sure I understand the rationale very well still.

Originally Posted by remek
__ I squeeze the hell out of my dick; I squeeze about as hard as I can, to the point that it’s sometimes uncomfortable.

__ I squeeze with fairly high intensity, but never to the point that there’s any discomfort.

__ I squeeze with moderate intensity (i.e., with less intensity than the two categories above).

That’s better. Good change.

Originally Posted by remek
Something along the lines of “What average weight, in pounds, do you believe brought you the best results when hanging?”

Good idea. I think a subjective question like this would be most useful. Asking about the “average” weight the PEer used doesn’t seem as promising to me. The “max weight” question is probably our best objective indicator. I’ll add the subjective assessment to the next draft. I should probably also ask which exercises (from the whole list) the participant, himself, attributes his length and girth gains to most.

All right, I’ll be back tomorrow afternoon or evening to draft another revision. Keep the ideas coming…

Originally Posted by Para-Goomba
I considered doing it that way. I’d like to hear more votes about the best way to do it. I prefer the way I did it because that’s how I see the relative informational weight of the various sections, but I understand that reasonable people will disagree about this.

So far I am outnumbered two-to-one. I personally think if we advertise this the right way, the majority of the people who take the survey will finish the whole thing… Thus, if you want to keep it the way you had it, than I won’t be disapointed.

Basically, I think the best way to put it is:
“This survey is aimed at building enormous data on PE, how it affects us, how we can maximize our gains, and more. We are aiming for sufficient information. To make this happen the survey is detailed in some areas. Please be prepraed: The survey might take 30 minutes to an 45 minutes for you to finish. Please understand every question was added to the survey for a reason. If you do not have 30 minutes to help yourself, and others learn the best way to build a bigger dick, than do not take the survey. Additionally, please be preprared to recall past PE experiences. ”

I know that the above can be touched up quite a bit, but it is just an example of what we should advertise. The actual advertising should probably go into more detail of how it could help the participant. Also, including the incentives (i.e. the “I finished the pe survey icon”) listed wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

Originally Posted by PG

How is it biased? I assume that no one’s penis actually shrank from PEing; I only included the “smaller than” bit to make the question less “biased” seeming. Maybe the first option should just be “the same as”?


IMO, it is biased. Imagine yourself as an outsider. You know nothing about PE. You have seen many websites claiming natural penis enlargement doesn’t work. In fact, it is dangerous and can have the opposite affect — it can shrink your penis. If this were you, you would assume PEing does shrink the penis, and if you read this question you would ask “where is the ‘my penis shrank from pe’ choice?”

I haven’t heard of anyone’s penis shrinking from PE, but if some people claim it happens (which some do, I have seen the claims), then I think we owe their opinions one option. Unless, of course, it complicates things.

Originally Posted by PG

Yes, they are all different drugs, with different dosages. Plus, Cialis lasts about 8 times longer in the body.


Understood. I am not a viagra man myself. I have taken it a few times last year for recreational use. I loved the marathon sex I had using it. Lately, I have been to busy to order some more.

Originally Posted by PG
I’ll add this, although I’m not sure I understand the rationale very well still.

Using this question (the question 11 I added), I am looking for a dominant result. If the results dominantly show the user having a stronger erection quality once they hit their plateau, then I will take this hypothesis to the next step. If it isn’t dominant (say, less than 75 percent), than I will scratch the whole idea. If you have any suggestions on how to build a question, I would be more than enthused to hear them.

Originally Posted by PG

Good idea. I think a subjective question like this would be most useful. Asking about the “average” weight the PEer used doesn’t seem as promising to me. The “max weight” question is probably our best objective indicator. I’ll add the subjective assessment to the next draft. I should probably also ask which exercises (from the whole list) the participant, himself, attributes his length and girth gains to most.

Thats a great idea.

I am going to go skim over this book now… If I find anything useful I will let you guys know.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
I’m thinking the variables should be last. I don’t have a problem with “penis pills’, just watch what the question is and how it is worded.

Absolutely. You know my hate for these companies. I think having it worded exactly as the other questions are worded is the best way to go.

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
You are probably pretty close to alone in that opinion remek. I heard mention of a lynch mob looking for volunteers.

A lynch mob? We have nothing to be worred about, as long as they aren’t Italian … You know how rough the Italian mob can get.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

OK, I have read over 2/3rds of this book, and it has given me a few good ideas:

1) After the survey is created, we should pilot-test — making sure everything goes along smoothly before we fully launch the survey for 6 months - a year.

2) I read about graph scales. I have had minimal experience with these, but I think they could be used to calculate accurate punctuated PE… What do you guys think? Any input on this idea?

3) Spanish translation. We have thousands of Spanish members here (approximately). Not using these members would be a waste of good possible data. Mafero translated my “Clamping 101” article into Spanish. I think he did a good job (In actuality, I don’t know — mi espanola is muy peqito). We would need multiple Spanish mods to make sure the translation is 100 percent accurate.

More to come.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

OK,

After we add the details discussed today, I think we will be 95 percent complete with our draft.
Tomorrow (Wed), I am going to check through the survey one more time. Triple-checking the wording and such.

Thereafter I am going to start PMing some candidates to overlook the survey. Everything is pretty much finished. If we see anything that needs to be added, we will add it as we go. All awhile we will be creating the interdependent map for “the programmer.” The flow chart is pretty much complete.

See you guys tomorrow.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

>>> Using this question (the question 11 I added), I am looking for a dominant result.<<<

What will you be comparing the result to — people’s final PE outcomes on erection quality (as gauged by another current question in the survey)?? As I said, I’ll include the question in the next draft, I just don’t understand it very well.

>>>we should pilot-test<<<

Yes. That’s the main reason I wanted a few more days for this. It’s easy to overlook ambiguities in the wording, etc., when you author a survey yourself.

>>>I read about graph scales.<<<

You must be using this term differently from the way I know it (in which it refers simply to the scale of a graph). Not sure what you mean about using graph scales to investigate Punctuated PE.

>>> Spanish translation<<<

Very good idea! That, along with the metric option (mentioned at the beginning of the current survey), should make it accessible to everyone.

>>>All awhile we will be creating the interdependent map for “the programmer.”<<<

Will we? Last time I spoke with him, I thought he was satisfied with the “exploratory data mining” explanation for the analysis plan. I’m happy to answer questions about why any specific questions are included in the survey — how they will be integrated into analyses — but frankly, it would be an overwhelming project to try to list, right now, every analysis that I may run once the final data are in. I’d prefer to go through that ordeal only once (i.e., once the data are in).

Originally Posted by Para-Goomba
>>> Using this question (the question 11 I added), I am looking for a dominant result.<<<

What will you be comparing the result to — people’s final PE outcomes on erection quality (as gauged by another current question in the survey)?? As I said, I’ll include the question in the next draft, I just don’t understand it very well.

For convient purposes, here is the question:

Originally Posted by question 11
11. When you experienced a plateau, what was the status of your erection quality compared to your pre-PE erection quality?
__ When I hit a “plateau,” my erection strength was the same as it was before PE.
__ My erection quality was stronger during the time I experienced a “plateau,” than it was before PE.
__ My erection strength was weaker during the time I experienced a “plateau,” than it was before PE.
[NOTE TO PROGRAMER: Radio buttons: The first option should be coded as “0”; the second option should be coded as “1”; and the last option should be coded as “-1”]

I will be comparing this question to the original “erection quality” question.
There will be three answers. For example, let’s say:
The same has 10 percent of the answer choices,
Stronger has 85 percent of the answer choices,
and Weaker has 5 percent of the answer choices,

85 percent of the people who reach a plateau claim their penis strength is stronger during an erection. We will take this number, and compare it to the “overal” percent of people who claim their erection quality is better, overall. Let’s say 55 percent of the people claim their erection quality is better, in the other question, then we will determine if there is a significant difference between the two:
55 percent vs 85 percent.

If there is, then I will continue building more data on this “train of thought:”

Originally Posted by me, earlier

The reasoning behind question 11:
There isn’t too much talk about how exactly the penis becomes “healthier” (i.e. stronger erections, more frequent erections, etc.). Some men believe PE throws the penis into a bodily response. It strengthens as a defense mechanism. This hypothesis states that when a plateau happens, the penis has reached a “certain” level in which the penis tissues are not as malleable as before – in turn, making the erection quality much stronger.

[quote=PG]
Yes. That’s the main reason I wanted a few more days for this. It’s easy to overlook ambiguities in the wording, etc., when you author a survey yourself.

After we gather a few opinions (hopefully today), and we believe the survey is FULLY finished, then I suggest sending what we have to the programmer. After he builds the program, then we should PILOT test 10 - 30 members, with the actual survey. This will only work if we are allowed to change/edit a few things after the program is built.


Originally Posted by PG

Will we? Last time I spoke with him, I thought he was satisfied with the “exploratory data mining” explanation for the analysis plan. I’m happy to answer questions about why any specific questions are included in the survey — how they will be integrated into analyses — but frankly, it would be an overwhelming project to try to list, right now, every analysis that I may run once the final data are in. I’d prefer to go through that ordeal only once (i.e., once the data are in).

From personal experience, I know it is always better to plan ahead. I don’t think a detailed analysis is needed, just a map of what we are going to do. (i.e. how question X relates to question Y — no analysis needed, just a relation)
This will save us a lot of time in the future. We won’t be scratching our heads wondering what the hell we were thinking 9 months ago…

Plus,
This might sound harsh, but what if you are ran over by a bus or something? Unforunately, accided happen. I don’t want to be thinking “My dearest beloved PG, what were you thinking when you created question 32Z?”

Nothing big. I will probably do simple map myself, and ask you question as things go along. We won’t have to rush the map building, as long as we can edit anything before the pilot testing starts (i.e. we can build the map while the programmer builds the program).


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

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