Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth!

Very helpful. Without this post I’d be more prone to freakouts!


2009-05-01: BPEL ~8.25", EG ~5.5" (start) / 2009-08-25: BPEL ~9.00" / EG ~6.0". 2010-02-06: BPEL ~9.25", EG ~6.2" / 2010-08-23: BPEL ~9.4", EG: ~6.25"

I have a question about night/morning wood. I very rarely wake up with it.if I do it’s generally only like 40-50% erect but it’s constantly fluctuating. How important is it to wake up with a raging hardon each morning? I can get an erection to a decent level but I still don’t seem to wake up with one. Have had blood tests and nothing is wrong with me. Can mood effect the morning wood at all? Finally if I can’t really observe it as an indicator how should I go about assessing how my routines are affecting my unit?

Originally Posted by Cumberino
I have a question about night/morning wood. I very rarely wake up with it.if I do it’s generally only like 40-50% erect but it’s constantly fluctuating. How important is it to wake up with a raging hardon each morning? I can get an erection to a decent level but I still don’t seem to wake up with one. Have had blood tests and nothing is wrong with me. Can mood effect the morning wood at all? Finally if I can’t really observe it as an indicator how should I go about assessing how my routines are affecting my unit?

Guys, I almost never look at this thread anymore, so if you have questions, post them THEN pm me that its posted, and I will answer.

Once again, it the CHANGE in EQ that is the thing. Proper PE should make your overall EQ much improved. Its a RELATIVE change for YOU. So, if you are getting MORE wood than before, that means you are moving in the right direction. So, for some it will mean raging wood daily, where perhaps before it was once in a while. For you, if you rarely had it before, and now you get it once in a while, that’s an improvement and it indicates you are moving in the right direction.

Please read my EQ thread and My “is more more or is less more” thread, it should make the concept clearer. You need to assess EQ as a totality of it; hardness, frequency, ease, duration, refractory period AND nite and morning wood. You observe that which you can, and assess the total changes. Its the net changes that give you the true read. Once you get that hang of that, then you might just pick a couple categories that will give you a quick and dirty read that is fairly accurate.


Last edited by sparkyx : 06-22-2009 at .

Which is better - good PIs during a PE session, or good PIs the next day?

Or is “PI” even the right term for the feeling during a session?

Should PE sessions be routines done out of duty, resulting in better erections/morning wood the next day -

- or should they feel great/expansionary/stretching/productive in-and-of themselves, while you’re doing them?

If the two seem mutually exclusive, which is better?

I find that trying a new exercise, or increasing time, will make my dick feel great - during the session - the first one or two times - but the next few sessions using that system will feel like diminishing repeats of the first.

Does this mean I should switch things up more? Keep increasing time/intensity? Take fewer breaks?

Or just accept the diminished in-session sensations and pay attention only to PIs the day after?

Specifically - any thoughts about this process, as described in my progress report, from here -

Foryourprivacy - ForYourPrivacy’s Progress Report

- to the present?

Good question.

First read my EQ thread linked at the bottom, it will be helpful for you.

Second, bottom line is GAINS. So, see which works better for you to make your best gains.

In my EQ thread, I recommend that if you drop your EQ for your workout, it should at least be returned by the next day. Many guys find that their highest EQ levels indicate that they DIDN’T work hard enough for gains, and need to see it drop a bit. However, almost all guys see the EQ rebound nicely by the next day.

Experiment and see over a span of a week, which one seems to be giving you better gains.

PIs are the general road map, EQ is designed to get you even closer to your destination, but ONLY YOU can fine tune your routine enough to get gains.

Work systematically, make and record observations and you greatly enhance your chances of success.

S.

So, are “PIs during a session” still known as “PIs”? Is there any data on them and how they relate to post-session PIs?

I’ve read the EQ thread.

My recent story: I had great PIs during one session but mediocre ones after, then mediocre PIs during the next (same routine) session but great EQ in every category the next day. Next session, during and after, all PIs were basically baseline.

Pattern?

Haven’t had negative PIs since feb, and it’s tough to judge by gains, since the only possible gains I’ve made are in base girth (ambiguous - poor recording techniques).

Guess I’m just undertraining, with “only” 2hrs+ each night, no days off?

Oy.

Thanks, sparkyx.

Essential two questions, condensed:

1. How do in-session PIs relate to regular PIs?

2. If you get great initial PIs from a routine, but mediocre to no subsequent PIs from the same routine (and no negative PIs) - do you step it up or take a break? What if you’re already doing 2 hrs a day, no days off? Aargh.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Foryourprivacy
Essential two questions, condensed:

1. How do in-session PIs relate to regular PIs?

2. If you get great initial PIs from a routine, but mediocre to no subsequent PIs from the same routine (and no negative PIs) - do you step it up or take a break? What if you’re already doing 2 hrs a day, no days off? Aargh.

Thanks.

1. “How do in-session PIs relate to regular PIs?”

If we were saying Indicators were a map to find “Big Dick Island” then PI’s are the major Interstate freeways, and EQ is the local roads.

PIs really are the major indicators as to general direction, EQ is used to fine tune essentially the positive PIs or a subset of the Positive PIs.

So lets take a look;

Lets start with some definite Negative PIs;
-pain
-decreased nite and morning wood
-decreased hardness of erections
-numbness
-discoloration
-loss of size

Now for the definite Positive PIs;
-larger flaccid hang lasting all day
-increased nite and morning wood
-increased hardness of erections
-increase of normal size

Neutral PIs;
-temporary penis contraction after a PE workout
-redness
-spotting
-slight achyness in your penis
-increased size temporarily, a few minutes to a couple hours
-edema in the penis skin

So your question is about “in session PIs”. Really the only “in session” ones that you should pay attention to is if you are getting pain. Obviously, you should be very careful if your PE is causing pain. It is usually an indicator to back off because you may be close to injury.

The rest of the PIs are to be observed AFTER you are done with your PE and you are accessing as to whether you are moving in the correct direction or not.

For example, you may be a clamper and get some numbness and discoloration DURING your routine, but are perfectly fine afterward.

Numbness during your PE might not be a big deal, but certainly if your PE is leaving your dick numb and discolored afterward and it lasts all day or more, its a BIG CONCERN! Get it?

So, really, the PI’s are when you are observing what your PE is doing to your dick AFTER your PE routine, or the RESULTS OR EFFECTS your PE routine is having on your dick.

2. “If you get great initial PIs from a routine, but mediocre to no subsequent PIs from the same routine (and no negative PIs) - do you step it up or take a break? What if you’re already doing 2 hrs a day, no days off? Aargh.”

Physiology, or the response of a living organism to stress is ALWAYS a moving target. Living organisms seek to ADAPT to stress, to survive. This is what is tricky with PE.

We seek to cause the penis to grow or expand, but you have to understand, this is STRESS to the penis and will seek to adapt to that stress. If you get it right, it ALSO grows as part of its adaptive response. If you get it wrong, it just gets tougher and or loses function.

So, many times, we find what caused a “good” response one day, might not the next. Usually this is either because the stress is starting to accumulate and the penis is unable to recover enough in time for the next workout.

Or it’s at first enough, but the penis adapts to the stress and it now is no longer “enough”.

If you’ve ever done wt training you might have had a similar experience. You start lifting wts and for a few sessions you seem pretty strong, but then you come back and you are far weaker. You wonder what happened?

Well, you were stressing your body, and your body kicked in its adaptive mechanisms and was keeping up for a while, but finally you exhaust all its backup systems and you crash. You weren’t giving it enough time to recover from the stress before you added more stress, and you overloaded your adaptive responses and you got weaker.

This is the same with PE. Sometimes we find an amount of PE that’s pretty close, but after a few days, you see EQ start to drop. Well, you have to figure out whether its too much and stress is accumulating OR if its slightly too little and adaptation is kicking in.

I think one of the easiest ways to tell is take a day off. If it was too much, that day (or two)off will show an increase of EQ. If its too little, EQ will probably drop a little more.

So, if you have PIs down pat, great. Now get very familiar with EQ and use that to fine tune your workout.

Observe, record and experiment. Remember, don’t change too many perimeters at once, it will become totally confusing.

So for example, if you think your routine is pretty good, experiment with taking a day off or adding a day. OR, you could slightly change your time under load (TUL). OR you could slightly change your force level. For example jelque a little harder or softer, or drop vacuum from 5 in hg to 4 in hg.

What you DON’T want to do, is change a bunch of those perimeters at the same time, great way to totally waste the time put in. Pick one that you feel is most out of whack and begin to change it and observe and record your response to that change. It will teach you a lot!


Last edited by sparkyx : 09-09-2009 at .

Originally Posted by sparkyx
If you’ve ever done wt training … you were stressing your body, and your body kicked in its adaptive mechanisms and was keeping up for a while, but finally you exhaust all its backup systems and you crash. You weren’t giving it enough time to recover from the stress before you added more stress, and you overloaded your adaptive responses and you got weaker.

… you have to figure out whether its too much and stress is accumulating OR if its slightly too little and adaptation is kicking in.

I think one of the easiest ways to tell is take a day off. If it was too much, that day (or two)off will show an increase of EQ. If its too little, EQ will probably drop a little more.

I’m planning to alternate jelqing and stretching days - the two types of stress seem different enough that each allows recovery from the other.

Specifically, thorough stretching has produced great morning wood, one day after thorough jelqing left me at baseline.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
… about “in session PIs”. Really the only “in session” ones that you should pay attention to is if you are getting pain.

The rest of the PIs are to be observed AFTER you are done with your PE and you are accessing as to whether you are moving in the correct direction or not.

So, really, the PI’s are when you are observing what your PE is doing to your dick AFTER your PE routine, or the RESULTS OR EFFECTS your PE routine is having on your dick.

So, if you have PIs down pat, great. Now get very familiar with EQ and use that to fine tune your workout.

Gotcha - sensations during a PE session are only relevant if they’re bad.

I’ll definitely aim for EQ awareness. I guess I was over-relying on in-session PIs because I don’t always *get* non-baseline states the day after PE - I never get negative PIs, and haven’t yet gotten gains (except maybe base girth gains).

My dick seems very adaptable and noncommunicative - or maybe just unbelievably tough, even after a month decon: but no, I get PIs when I do something *new* - maybe I was overdoing it by relying on how good it felt during the session.

(Annoying sidenote: parameter = “one of a set of measurable factors, such as temperature and pressure, that define a system and determine its behavior and are varied in an experiment.” I’d go with “variable”, though.)

Thanks agan, sparkyx.

I feel that sparkyx’s concepts are essential to gains and that these concepts can directly relate to the majority of cases where difficulty of gains occur. No matter your method of PE, PIs are integral and infinitely valuable to this game.

If I’m understanding this concept correctly, then positive indicators (night and morning wood, increased frequency and quality of erections) are a sign that what you’re doing is right, and you should keep at it, and when you encounter negative indicators, you need rest. Would that then mean that structured schedules, most popularly being 2 on 1 off, should be scrapped, and instead we should just keep going until we hit a negative PI? Maybe you go five days with all positive indicators. Should you take the next day off just because 5 on seems a bit much? Or just keep going until you hit a negative PI?

Don’t you want to occasionally go over and intentionally hit a negative PI, just to sort of map out where your threshold is, and also maybe because sometimes a shock session overwhelming the system can be a good thing?

Yes sparky thank you for tips. I listen to my penis and when I need i take breaks lasting 3 to 4 off days. I find this has given me great gains.


First Measurement November 1 2009: EBPL 7.5

Current Measurement June 1st 2010: EBPL 8.0

Short Term Goal: 8.5 inches || EBPL Long Term Goal:9 inches EBPL

I believe that I have over-trained for about 6 months and have possibly caused some permanent degradation of the tissues of my dick - so I believe the information given in this post is important and could have helped me if I had read it earlier.

The interesting thing about my case is that about 4 years ago I started PE with much less determination than my recent period of PE and had much more success, but unfortunately had to cease exercises due to a persistent and very annoying STD! During that first period of PE I believe I happened to hit the growth zone. To be honest life was pretty busy and I found jelqing a bit tedious, so could only actually bring myself to do it for around 15 to 20 minutes in the shower. I found that after a period of time of doing the exercises 4 to 5 days a week, that I had a plumped-up, enlarged flaccid penis and rock hard morning wood. I don’t know if I had any huge gains erect size, I wasn’t measuring at the time, but I was only around 4 months into my exercises when I had to prematurely cease activities. Once I eventually got over the STD I only resumed PEing at a frequency of around 2 to 3 times per month, when the mood took me; sometimes several weeks would pass with no session at all. I tried to keep up the PC muscle exercises though and was reasonably consistent with these. I would say that when I began my next period of PE in December 08 my penis was in good health.

The latest PE session started with new found determination because I had become less satisfied with my girth for a couple of reasons. My length has always been very good, ranging from around 7.5 to 8.0 inches. My girth probably averages around 5.3 inches. I have never been totally satisfied with the proportions, and as I said above, a couple of things happened that made me determined to improve my proportions with a girth focused PE program. My girth focused program involved fairly heavy jelqing with edging. I would do the jelqs in sets of 20 and would masturbate in-between sets to bring my erection back up to around 80-90%. Strength of the squeeze was moderately firm. I would do this for around 30 minutes which probably equated to around 300 jelqs, then would follow it by edging for around 15 minutes. I would do this for 4-5 days per week with weekends off, but weekends often involved quite rough sex with the new girlfriend and probably didn’t represent much of a rest for my tired dick! I had taken 25mg Viagra recreationally before, but found myself more reliant on this as a security for the weekend sex sessions as my EQ became less than great.

Based on this experience, I would like to add to this thread by bringing up the point of mixed indicators and external factors. The first mixed indicator for me that I noticed was that my flaccid penis was of reasonable size following PE sessions, however there was as soft swelling around a smaller and harder core. Originally I thought my flaccid size was fine and hence everything was going OK. However, I eventually interpreted this to mean that my underlying tissue wasn’t happy at all about what I was doing and had shrunk, with the size of my flaccid penis being maintained by fluid and swelling in the outer layer of tissue and the skin. Another mixed indicator for me was the occasional larger but spongier erections. At the time I took this to be a sign of success but in retrospect I misinterpreted this sign to be much more positive that it was. Finally the weekend 25mg of Viagra was an external factor that made the situation extremely difficult to interpret and was a big factor in me continuing to over-train for 6 months. I think the key is to rely on the primary indicators given by sparkyx in the original thread. If some of your indicators are mixed or confusing then I believe you have to remove obvious external factors, analyze the indicators in more depth and be honest with yourself as to whether the indicators are really a sign of permanent, improved health of the underlying penis tissues. If not, based on my experience, you are likely to be staying still or going backwards with your PE!

I would be very grateful of any advice of where to go from here in terms of restoring health of my dick and possibly continuing PE. I have basically taken 6 months off from PEing. Progress has been slow and moderate. Once I decided to take the prolonged break from PEing, the temporary swelling effect gradually disappeared over about 4 weeks. As I suspected, my actual dick tissue had turtled-up and my EQ was pretty low. I noticed a definite tighter but lighter feeling in both flaccid and erect state. Flaccid size has been more affected than erect size but both are reduced. Flaccid girth and turgidity are probably the worst affected. Previously I was quite a shower and my dick would be quite resilient to cold or overuse. I took this for granted but now this has gone! I would be really appreciative to hear from people who recognized that they had a long period of over-training to start with, that they got their beaten dick back into good health and were able to start up successful PEing again. I would be really grateful of suggestions of a program for how to try to assist recovery of my dick and it would also be good to hear honest opinions as to whether experienced PEers think the reduction in tissue condition could be permanent. I’m not sure if this belongs better in the injury thread but rather than just sending out a plea for help I was hoping that my experience of over-training could also help others.

Hi Jay,

Like I always say, PM me if you post, otherwise I rarely swing by here.

Anyway Jay, I suggest start with 5 minutes a day of moderate to light jelquing and see where that takes you.

Proper PE really does improve EQ, so start easy for a while and see what happens. If you start to get improved EQ, then you can think about slowing increasing time.

Great post!

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