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Physics of V-Stretches

Quote
Originally posted by memento
Exactly there are 2 cords. So imagine the penis as 10 cords, sharing the tension, then break one cord under stress what happens to the tension in the remaining cords.

As I said:

Quote
Originally posted by Nedd

The tension in any [cross sectional] section of penis is the same. If part of the load bearing structure in said section fails, that load needs to be taken up by some other (part of a) structure in that section.

Ten cords sharing 10N means each cord ideally supports 1N. If one cord breaks, then nine cords sharing 10N means each cord ideally supports 10/9 = 1.11N.

Yes its nice that you are agreeing with me.

So as we stretch and the penis deforms with minute tears, the tension increases because there is less cross sectional area bearing the load and increased load around a tear is going to have an area of effect until the load restabilises putting small sections under increased load and leaving others under little or no load.

Of course that feeds back to the point of the fulcrum where the 20 cord penis becomes a ten cord penis.


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As parts of the penis fail (get minute tears) the remaining parts probably support increased tension. Overall tension (the sum of tensions supported by each individual part) remains the same though.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
Of course that feeds back to the point of the fulcrum where the 20 cord penis becomes a ten cord penis.

I’m not sure what you mean. If we take the penis as one long piece bent around the fulcrum, the tension is 10N, and ten cords makes each cord support 1N. If we pretend the penis is one object with no bend, then the tension is 20N, but there are now twenty cords, so each cord still supports 1N. My point is, each analysis gives exactly the same penile stress (or the same tension in each cord).

How is the overall tension 10N and then suddenly skips to being 20N?

Overall tension is the same but the tension supported by a strand of the ten cord penis is greater. If you have a penis under a 20N tension supported by a twenty cord penis then it goes over a fulcrum point how does the tension suddenly become 10N if overall tension remians the same?

If the diameter made no difference trees would probably be twiglike at the bottom and get bigger as they went up.


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The tension in the ideal cable bent around the fulcrum is 10N everywhere. It doesn’t change to 20N at the fulcrum. It stays at 10N everywhere, including the fulcrum. I explained exactly how and why earlier.

Quote
memento wrote:
If the diameter made no difference trees would probably be twiglike at the bottom and get bigger as they went up.

Try hanging from a rope. Then try hanging from a single strand of that rope. Same tension both times. One will snap, one won’t. Tension per unit cross sectional area (i.e. stress) is what’s important.

Exactly, you’ve been talking overall tension which is effectively meaningless, I’ve been talking useful tension, which is what its all about.

So if we have a 20N tension shared across our 20 cord doubled penis, at the fulcrum the cross sectional tension will be doubled because there are only 10 cords supporting the 20N. As its fairly hard to have much of a cross sectional tension differential that will mostly equalise through the penis.

No free lunch no force appearing magically, because the fulcrum point still has to provide the force to sustain the full tension, but a great way of increasing tension above what is possible with a single hand on the end of the penis, especially if the fulcrum point is something fairly immobile.

Glad to see you’re getting what I’m saying now.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

You guys are nuts! Only one thing involved… A stretch after time, gets you to nine!!!


The primary goal of PE should be to make your penis as healthy as possible in both form and function. If you do that, increased size will follow.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
Exactly, you've been talking overall tension which is effectively meaningless, I've been talking useful tension, which is what its all about.

*punches you in the face*

Quote
Originally posted by memento
So if we have a 20N tension shared across our 20 cord doubled penis, at the fulcrum the cross sectional tension will be doubled because there are only 10 cords supporting the 20N.

No. No no no no no. First, you seem, as always, terribly confused over just what “tension” means. Second, once you start treating the doubled over penis as one unfolded object, the fulcrum is no longer a fulcrum, because nothing is bent around it. It’s just a point at which tension is applied. That tension acts (for the purposes of our discussion) on all 20 cords, meaning the tension in each cord is still 1N.

That example is obviously confusing you. Forget it. The penis is bent around the fulcrum. The 20N fulcrum force does not contribute to the tension in the penis. The two 10N forces pulling down on each end, and only those two forces, create the tension.

Look, you can try to make some argument about something happening around the fulcrum because the penis isn’t an ideal cable. But from a theoretical standpoint, the tension in an ideal cable is identical everywhere. Add one fulcrum, add a thousand fulcrums, the tension remains the same throughout the cable, and it is equal to the forces tugging on each end.

Nedd,

I don’t really know how to easily explain to you what I mean so I’ll ty a real world example and hope you can get it from there. You seem a little stuck on the tension being the same throughout, hopefully this will help.

Forget tension for the moment and think about pressure, of course tension and pressure can coexist but lets look at this simply.

OK imagine a brick wall. Take out a row of ten bricks. The wall will respond to this by creating a point of pressure at a point some way above the row you take out in a kind of triangular shape and within the triangle the bricks will lack any major forces other than gravity working on them and may fall out. You may end up with the whole triangle falling out.

Now think about the pressures above the triangular hole, the major point of pressure is the apex of the triangle but as you rise further up the wall the pressure will be less as there is a greater area to bear the load eventually you’ll get an evening out of the pressure, it will be higher than if you had not removed any bricks but the further away you go from the hole the less the difference will be.

Now take that and place it in terms of tension on the penis. Imagine the point of fulcrum as a point. At this point we have a single penis diameter being worked on by an upward force and a downward force with the upward and downward being equal and opposite. Lets call that force 20N now go further away from the 90 degree fulcrum, here we have the same force 20N but its working on a double diameter, so looking just at that point we would assume that the cross sectional tension is half the fulcrum point. so we have 2 diameters or 10N per diameter.

Taking these together we can see that the tensions per diameter are not the same and they will tend like the brick wall to want to equalise. So they will equalise at a point somewhere between 10N per diameter and 20N per diameter, with a very slight gradient up toward the point of fulcrum.

Your adding a thousand fulcrums is an interesting point. Another stretch MagnumXL used was to wrap the penis around a stick, imagine doing that and creating the same upward and downward forces before and you’ll end up with a very strange group of tensions and lack of tension in the penis. I think we should probably stick to understanding the simpler single fulcrum point.

I’ve tried to be quite clear in my language in this post, if you still find it hard to see what I’m getting at please feel free to ask.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
You seem a little stuck on the tension being the same throughout.

I seem to keep repeating an incontrovertible truth because your examples contradict it? Yeah, maybe that’s the reason I’m stuck there.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
Forget tension for the moment and think about pressure, of course tension and pressure can coexist but lets look at this simply.

The above makes it clear you don’t even know what tension and pressure are.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
Now take that and place it in terms of tension on the penis. Imagine the point of fulcrum as a point. At this point we have a single penis diameter being worked on by an upward force and a downward force with the upward and downward being equal and opposite. Lets call that force 20N now go further away from the 90 degree fulcrum, here we have the same force 20N but its working on a double diameter, so looking just at that point we would assume that the cross sectional tension is half the fulcrum point. so we have 2 diameters or 10N per diameter.

The fulcrum force does not contribute to the tension in the penis. I don’t see the point in explaining any further, as I’d just be repeating myself. Reread the thread. If you don’t understand something I’ve said, ask me. Don’t give me examples I’ve explained must be based on faulty reasoning a dozen times over.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
Taking these together we can see that the tensions per diameter are not the same and they will tend like the brick wall to want to equalise. So they will equalise at a point somewhere between 10N per diameter and 20N per diameter, with a very slight gradient up toward the point of fulcrum.

Why are you telling me this? Did you not hear me say multiple times that there cannot be a tension gradient? If you’d understood me the first few times, you would have known that something must be wrong with your reasoning if it results in a tension gradient. Reread the thread, and don’t reply again until you actually understand it.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
Your adding a thousand fulcrums is an interesting point. Another stretch MagnumXL used was to wrap the penis around a stick, imagine doing that and creating the same upward and downward forces before and you'll end up with a very strange group of tensions and lack of tension in the penis.

All MagnumXL did was confuse a whole bunch of people.

Quote
Originally posted by memento
I think we should probably stick to understanding the simpler single fulcrum point.

I think you mean, you stick to trying to explain your erroneous understanding to me, who understood this all from the first post in this thread, and I’ll keep futilely repeating why you’re wrong.

Nedd,

Yes I’ve heard you say multiple times that there cannot be a tension gradient. I think you have to think a little beyond the confines of massless cords with no effective diameter.

If it helps you understand tension gradients think about the penis itself hanging without force applied by a hand or device, each 1mm cross section must support the weight of the previous 1mm cross section and thus the tension increases toward the glans.

I freely admit that I don’t understand exactly what is going on, fortunately I’m in a position where I know my understanding is limited rather than assuming I understand everything. I find this is a suitable place to start any discussion.

If you would like to explain why tension gradients don’t exist from your perspective, please feel free.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

memento,
I just tried to sum up the “first part” of this thread.
Why isn’t it possible to upload that file? It’s a .pdf(53KB).

Thanks,
mcn


More meat - More fun! :D ***April 2006 - 9.5" BPFSL***August 2008 - 9.65" BPFSL, 9.35" BPEL***

Zip it and upload the zipfile.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

Like I said I tried to sum up the first part of this thread. I hope that now more people understand, why a v-stretch does not increase the overall tension. I’ll try to find out more about the tension at the fulcrum point but this is not that easy. Since your talking about tension gradients you have to remember that tension is theoretically described as a tensor.

Thanks,
mcn

Attached Files

More meat - More fun! :D ***April 2006 - 9.5" BPFSL***August 2008 - 9.65" BPFSL, 9.35" BPEL***

The limiting factor in this discussion is really your grip on the end of your cock. If the max you can pull straight out is say 10 pounds before you slip off, then 10 pounds is your limit. It doesn’t matter if the 10 pounds is a straight pull, or if it is diverted as in a V stretch. Once you reach the 10 pounds, you just can’t hold any more and you slip off. Now with a two handed grip you could go higher, but then who is their to provide the V?

With an A-stretch, you can achieve a greater load, because your cock is wrapped over your wrist and the resulting friction allows you to exert a greater force, being, the friction load from your wrist plus the 10 pound pull from your hand.


The primary goal of PE should be to make your penis as healthy as possible in both form and function. If you do that, increased size will follow.

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