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Penis lengthening like bone lengthening?

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Ok. So, SiamGuy gets to find out the secret, but nobody else?

LOL I’ve found once PE technique gets past the usual “pull on it and it’ll grow” concept it also go past the brain power of most of our PE buddies. I’ve been reading over the thread and will let you know what I come up with after I take a nap. Studies are boring as shit to read!

Off the top of my head I do know that evidence exists for greater than normal lengthening of connective tissue through stretching. The study I’m thinking of had weight lifters over-stretch their hip joints and do squats. (why they agreed I don’t know!) After a while the hip joints became too loose and the lifter’s legs would pop out of joint while squatting. I be that hurt pretty fucking bad too.

I’ve also read up on some of the bone growth thing. Its a pretty crappy deal since every day when they twist the screws the bone is literally re-broken. OUCH! Remember though…there is a limit to how much the bone can grow in this procedure. I think its 3-4” or something.

So then the comparison might have 3 flaws-

#1 Unlike bone your penis cannot be cleanly separated once, much less on a daily basis..well I guess it could but damn dude. LOL

#2- In bone lengthening there is a “ladder” or whatever you want to call it for the bone to cling too as it lengthens. Once again while I guess you could stick one in your dick…LOL

#3- Even with optimal conditions growth is limited. Not that 3-4” wouldn’t be enough for most of us, myself included.

Thats all now I’m dreaming. :)

Thank you, Dreamaloud, for stopping me from talking to myself incessantly.

I think the bone lengthening procedure is a little different from what you’re thinking. The bone isn’t rebroken with each advance of the screw. The bone is broken once (actually cut). Then it starts to heal. A “soft callus” is formed that consists mostly of collagen. Minerals don’t enter the callus at this point. While the callus is still soft, the bone is “distracted” (the screw is advanced) 1mm per day. As the callus is stretched out, it actually builds a soft bridge between the broken bone ends. Once the desired length is reached, the soft callus is allowed to calcify and form mature bone. At that point, it can’t be stretched any further.

What I find most interesting about this procedure is not the growth of bone, per se, but the fact that the soft tissues attached to the bone grow as well. For instance, when you’re lengthening someone’s leg, their muscles, tendons, skin, nerves, and blood vessels all have to expand along with the bone.

This occurs through a process called “distraction histogenesis.” Basically, you stretch a tissue and it will grow in the direction of the stress. It’s not that the original tissue is merely pulled out; new tissue is actually created to accommodate the new bone length.

This is rather incredible. You can basically enlarge any soft part of the body in any dimension just by stretching it!

Because bone is so stiff, it won’t grow by stretching alone. You have to first make it soft (by breaking it and letting it start to heal).

Where do the ligaments and tunica enter the picture? Are they like bone, which has to be cut before it can be stretched, or are they like muscle and many other tissues, which will grow without needing to be cut?

I suspect they’re somewhere in the middle. Regardless of what I think, I hope to learn more by reading up on this procedure. For all I know, some surgeon has come up with a treatment that can make collagenous tissues softer and easier to stretch.

Wouldn’t I love to get hold of some of that stuff!


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TEndons and ligaments fall closer to the soft tissue end of the spectrum as far as I know. Soft tissues have a youg’s modulus of around .0002-.002. Tendon is around .02. Bone should be around 10.


-Still bitter the y2k bug was a dud.

-My dear boy, do you ask a fish how it swims? (No.) Or a bird how it flies? (No.) Of course not. They do it because they were born to do it...

I stand corrected, cartiledge is aroud .02, tendon is around .2. Also bone is usually around 17, so just say 20.


-Still bitter the y2k bug was a dud.

-My dear boy, do you ask a fish how it swims? (No.) Or a bird how it flies? (No.) Of course not. They do it because they were born to do it...

I’m very interested but I don’t have the anatomical knowledge to contribute, I’m just absorbing what I can by reading. I suspect most viewers are in the same boat, so we’re not posting.


improve yourself: improve your life.

Tube,

Thanks for the numbers. These show that tendons (and I surmise ligs as well) are closer to soft tissue than to bone. Now, the question is, what is the threshold at which stiffness is too great to respond to stretching alone with reasonable forces?


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Originally Posted by bean
I’m very interested but I don’t have the anatomical knowledge to contribute, I’m just absorbing what I can by reading. I suspect most viewers are in the same boat, so we’re not posting.

C’mon! I was just kidding about keeping this information to myself.

Stay tuned. Something of practical value might come out of this eventually.


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ModestoMan, where is the update?

Did you let the LOT theory thread get in the way?

This is one interesting read…


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by dreamaloud1
LOL I’ve found once PE technique gets past the usual “pull on it and it’ll grow” concept it also go past the brain power of most of our PE buddies. I’ve been reading over the thread and will let you know what I come up with after I take a nap. Studies are boring as shit to read!
….

Thats all now I’m dreaming. :)

This guy is taking one hell of a nap.
No wonder his name is ‘dream.’


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Please keep up this great thread. I have this feeling that you are on the verge of making a great PE discovery. Obviously if you can prove that the penis is considered a soft tissue similar to that of skin and nervous tissue, and therefore grows in the same fashion; That, in itself, is a wonderful discovery. It basically “proves” that PE works through the medical documentation of bone lenghthening. But then it opens the doors for more creative and innovative forms of PE. To understand exactly what happnes during growth allows for more targeted exercises.

Those that are discussing this and understand the full subject material, I bow to you. It is above my head but I can grasp the general concept. One year of college level Health Science under my belt, but it has only helped a little. I find this very informative and well written. Please continue!

Hats off,
Dreamy

Very interesting thread!

As I understand it bone lengthening and the subsequent soft tissue lengthening is done by applying a fixed extension, allowing the body to adapt and repeating the process (SPS, Static Progressive Stretch). Apparently the body reacts to the applied stress and remodels/grows in the direction of the load. During the growth the stress will reduce. Perhaps during this process there is a feedback loop that tells the body that what it is doing is working? ie the stress is reducing as the body adapts. If this biological feedback loop exists it may be why SPS is better at promoting growth than a constant load/tension.

Others (mgus and I think Hobby) have cited links that report the greater efficiency of SPS over constant tension (eg hanging weight or spring loaded tensioner).


Feb 2004 BPEL 6.7" NBPEL ???? BPFSL ???? EG 5.65" Feb 2005 BPEL 7.1" NBPEL 5.8" BPFSL 6.9" EG 5.8" Feb 2006 BPEL 7.3" NBPEL 5.8" BPFSL 7.6" EG 5.85" Feb 2007 BPEL 7.3" NBPEL 5.8" BPFSL 7.5" EG 5.9"

Originally Posted by mbuc

Others (mgus and I think Hobby) have cited links that report the greater efficiency of SPS over constant tension (eg hanging weight or spring loaded tensioner).


Actually, it was Hobby that pointed me in that direction. Here is an extract from http://www.theratechequip.com/article2.htm

Quote

Creep is the continued deformation with the application of a fixed load.11 For tissue, the deformation and elongation are continuous but slow (requiring hours to days to obtain plastic deformation), and the material is kept under a constant state of stress. Treatment methods such as traction therapy and dynamic splinting are based on the properties of creep.

Stress relaxation is the reduction of forces, over time, in a material that is stretched and held at a constant length.11 Relaxation occurs because of the realignment of fibers and elongation of the material when the tissue is held at a fixed position over time. Treatment methods that use stress relaxation are serial casting and static splinting.

Elastic deformation is the elongation produced by loading that is recovered after the load is removed. 5,9 If a force is applied to tissue and then released, the tissue returns to its original length. No long-term elongation or stretch occurs with elastic deformation, Plastic deformation, however, is the elongation produced under loading that will remain after the removal of a load.5,9 A tissue undergoing plastic deformation will remain stretched, yielding a permanent increase in length.

Since a permanent increase in ROM is the goal of most treatments, therapy should be aimed at producing plastic deformation of the tissue. It has been shown that a low force accompanied with a slow, progressively increased stretch will produce plastic deformation at low peak loads.6,9,12 This can be obtained with either creep or stress relaxation. Creep, however, requires prolonged treatment times ranging from hours to days, and places the tissue under a state of constant stress. Faster stretching also supplies a greater chance for tissue tearing rather than stretching. 6,9,11 Therapy, therefore must be designed to achieve a slow, progressive stretch, with plastic deformation at low loads, while minimizing the chance for soft tissue injury. The optimal method to obtain plastic deformation appears to be SPS.

Static progressive stretch appears to be an ideal method for reestablishing range of motion. The orthosis described here embodies the principles of static progressive stretch, and allows the patient to work on therapy in a home-based program. The overall average increase in motion was 31° (69%), with excellent compliance and no cases of significant pain with the use of the orthosis. No patient discontinued the use of the orthosis on their own; thus, compliance was excellent.

Short, 30-minute treatment sessions allow for increased patient compliance and improvement in functional outcome over conventional therapy or splinting systems.2,3,5 The SPS approach was so successful that two patients originally scheduled for surgical contracture release were satisfied with their improvements and believed that no further intervention was necessary. Nineteen of 20 patients were satisfied with this rehabilitation approach. The one dissatisfied patient used an earlier prototype and experienced some discomfort with the orthosis use; however, the patient was satisfied with the functional outcome. The authors realize that this is a small series with a short follow-up time of one-year; however, the initial results of this new approach are encouraging.

Based on the results of this study, it is concluded that (1) SPS is a successful method for the reestablishment of ROM. Treatments based on stress relaxation (static progressive stretching) appear beneficial and require less time (one or two 30-minute sessions/day for one to three months) than those treatments based on creep. (2) A low-force, patient-directed stretching can produce plastic deformation with permanent elongation of soft tissue, which does not deteriorate over time. (3) No complications or side effects occurred with the SPS or the JAS orthosis. There was 100% patient compliance, with no complaint of increased pain. (4) Significant gains were noted in this short-term study, with an average increase in ROM of 31° (69%). In patients observed more than one year, there was no decrease in ROM, suggesting that once plastic deformation occurs, the tissue will maintain the elongation over time.

(ROM stands for range of movement)

There is some more info (but not in-depth, alas!) at http://www.jointactivesystems.com/pf_research.html

It might intrigue ModestoMan et al that there is currently an ongoing experiment in comparing ADS stretchers of SPS-type and Dynamic Splint-type. That is, mbuc - who is using a SPS-type stretcher - suckered me into “competing” with a bungee-type ADS. Progress (BPFSL for ease of measurement) is reported weekly in the SuckXtender-thread.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by remek
ModestoMan, where is the update?

Did you let the LOT theory thread get in the way?

This is one interesting read…

Thanks, Remek.

If it’s any consolation, I haven’t done anything with the LOT thread, either. I’ve had the kids full time and I’m trying to keep my business running, so I’ve had very little time. Things will improve once the summer programs start.

My current thoughts on this subject are that the ligs and tunica are somewhere in between soft tissue and bone. Much softer than bone, but much harder to stretch than skin, nerves, and blood vessels.

Bone lengthening only works because the bone is cut. If you just pull on it without first cutting it, nothing would happen. The ligs and tunica are certainly more stretchable, but their toughness raises the question of whether conservative surgical intervention could be a huge boon to PE. Instead of cutting through the ligs entirely, as is done in conventional phalloplasty, a surgeon could merely thin them out. Similar things could possibly be done for the tunica. Small cuts to thin out the tough fibers in the dorsal thickening could help transform the tough tunica into something that more closely resembles soft tissue. Once the cuts are made, a strict regimen of traction could let distraction histogenesis do its thing.

Absent surgical intervention, we’re back to stretching the limiting factors. With the limiting factors extended, applied traction will cause the penile mass to increase via distraction histogensis; however, mass will not increase unless and until the limiting factors are stretched, because the limiting factors essentially shield the softer tissues from being subjected to the applied tension.

Feel free to move this forward without me, in my pseudo-absence.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

Originally Posted by mbuc
Very interesting thread!

I think so too. Don’t know how I’ve missed it so far.

Originally Posted by mbuc
Others (mgus and I think Hobby) have cited links that report the greater efficiency of SPS over constant tension (eg hanging weight or spring loaded tensioner).

I can offer a bit of anecdotal support (i.e. take with a grain of salt) for the premise of the greater efficiency of SPS approaches in penis lengthening endeavors:

-When hanging at low angles, working ligs, I find that my ligs will “lock up” (like Monty asserts in his “seat belt” analogy, I believe), if I don’t systematically reduce weight during a session. It is also important, I think, to start with a good high weight to get to fatigue). When I do reduce weight during a session, it seems that my ligs “relax” (stress relaxation) and, I think, strain some more. Kudos to Monty.

-Based on this observation, I experimented with decreasing the weight of my homemade golf weight ADS system throughout the day. I think I got better results this way than using the starting (higher) weight all day!

One small step for mankind!


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

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