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Penis lengthening like bone lengthening?

I would expect that angoigenesis is the body thinking that there isn’t enough blood supply because of the structure (when it’s really because the dude upstairs stuck a cable clamp on it). To recycle an old phrase; If the clamp doesn’t kill ya, the angiogenesis will make you stronger :)

fascia questiosn

I have so many questions that I am having trouble finding answers to:

How does the fascia (any part of the body) grow during development? I mean, how and where is collagen inserted?

Do body builders use any supplements to make the fascia more easily stretched?

What types of receptors are present on/in the fascia? IGF? AR?

Finally, are any highly detailed illustration or electron micrographs of fascia?

Great thread!

Originally Posted by penismith
How does the fascia (any part of the body) grow during development? I mean, how and where is collagen inserted?

When tissue grows it remodels. Like most BB’ers talk about muscle growth and wanting to be anabolic. The reality it the remodeling muscle is a combination of anabolism and catabolism. Otherwise, rather than re-scaling the structure, you’d just be slapping cells around it and run out of room. In the case of the penis I guess it would be a combination of collagenases and growth factors, modulated by androgens(?).

Originally Posted by penismith
Do body builders use any supplements to make the fascia more easily stretched?

Yes, PGE-1.

Originally Posted by penismith
What types of receptors are present on/in the fascia? IGF? AR?

This is almost certainly location dependant. Do you mean in skeletal muscle fascia? I know they’re present in the muscles themselves, but don’t know about the fascia.

Originally Posted by penismith
How does the fascia (any part of the body) grow during development? I mean, how and where is collagen inserted?

As a technical matter, it is not clear that the tunica is actually a fascia. I’ve called it that before, but WestLA corrected me (correctly). I’ll have to check his post to be sure, but I think the distinction is structural—a fascia is a sheet or band of connective tissue that separates different structures and allows them to slide relative to each other, whereas a tunica is a covering that encloses an organ.

Compositionally, I think the tunica is much denser and has a higher percentage of collagen than the typical fascia. Curiously, the testicles are also enclosed by a tunica albuginea—the same name and apparently the same structure.

Tunica means “hat.” Albuginea means “white.” White hat.

How does the tunica grow? I have 2 ideas about this. One is that it grows in response to pressure imposed by the repetitive engorgement of CC tissues. Perhaps the tunica is thinner and/or weaker in the young, and grows in a similar way during development to the way in which it grows when we do PE.

The other idea is that it grows independently. Growth factors, androgen, whatever. Maybe it’s a combination of the two. Different parts of the body seem to grow proportionally. I think it’s likely that they “talk” to each other to stay in sync, but I have no idea how.

As a connective tissue, the tunica is composed of sparse cells, mostly fibroblasts, and ground substance composed of a gel-like substance and fibers. The fibers (predominantly collagen) give the tunica its resistance to tensile stress.

Growth occurs by depositing new ground substance. The fibroblasts turn on and manufacture new compounds for the ground substance and new collagen fibers. These are secreted into the intercellular space. Once out there, they line up with neighboring collagen fibers or are integrated into them.

This is all controlled by complex chemical signaling mediated by genetics. I don’t think anybody’s figured it all out yet.


Last edited by ModestoMan : 10-11-2004 at .

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Growth occurs by depositing new ground substance. The fibroblasts turn on and manufacture new compounds for the ground substance and new collagen fibers. These are secreted into the intercellular space. Once out there, they line up with neighboring collagen fibers or are integrated into them.

This is all controlled by complex chemical signaling mediated by genetics. I don’t think anybody’s figured it all out yet.

Thank you for your detailed response. I didn’t word my question very well. I am wondering how it grows structurally. Are the collagen bands selectively cut in places with new subunits added to fill the slack during puberty? I am most interested in the bands that wrap around the penis. Where are the anchored and where do the bands end? What fraction of the penis do the bands wrap around or do any? What is the range of band lengths. I know that fibroblasts secrete both new collagen as well as matrix mataloproteases MMPs that digest collagen. I know IGF-1 has a complicated relationship with MMPs.

I guess the fist thing I need is a highly detailed diagram of tunica structure, and then a detailed description of how such a structure can remodel to expand in size. This is what I can’t seem to find. I searched for studies on a comparison between the tunica before and after puberty and found nothing. Of course that does not mean it is not out there.

I don’t think it is likely that it stretches during puberty in the same way as it stretches when we do PE, unless it thickens considerably or changes structure drastically at the end of puberty.

Thanks for the correction on the fascia. PGE-1, interesting.

Originally Posted by penismith
Are the collagen bands selectively cut in places with new subunits added to fill the slack during puberty?

I doubt it. As I understand it, the tunica remodels itself continually though a process of collagen breakdown and collagen deposition. Deposition might speed up during puberty. As for the part about cutting the bands, see below.

Quote
I am most interested in the bands that wrap around the penis. Where are the anchored and where do the bands end? What fraction of the penis do the bands wrap around or do any? What is the range of band lengths.

I’ve puzzled over this as well. We know that the inner layer of the tunica has circumferential collagen fibers. A matrix of these fibers completely encircles both CCs as a pair (or each CC separately, if you want to consider the septum to be the intersection of the two “tunicas”). The circumferential layer extends the entire length of the CCs—from the glans past where the crus separate and all the way to the pubic ramii.

The fibers that form this layer don’t anchor to anything except themselves. They essentially form a tube. Trabeculae are formed on the inside of the tube and fill in the internal structure of the CCs. At one end the “tube” inserts into the pubic ramii; at the other end, it closes on itself to form the tip of the CC.

I doubt that individual collagen fibers actually form closed circles around the CCs, if that’s what you’re thinking. More likely, the fibers are relatively short and bond to one other laterally via cross links. So, although the fibers “run” around the circumference of the CCs, I believe that no fiber forms a complete circle (or spiral). It’s a matrix of relatively short fibers, linked together laterally, and oriented mostly in the same direction (circumferentially).

With this structure in mind, it may be easier to see that fibroblasts interspersed among the fibers could deposit new collagen fibers that insert themselves into the existing matrix, just as old collagen is being removed. If more material is laid down than taken away, the layer grows in all dimensions—length, width, and thickness.

It probably doesn’t happen this simply. The DNA has a blueprint and the cells “try” to make sure it’s followed, however that happens.

Quote
I don’t think it is likely that it stretches during puberty in the same way as it stretches when we do PE, unless it thickens considerably or changes structure drastically at the end of puberty.

I don’t know. But is sounds like an interesting research project.

Hey, aren’t you supposed to be studying :) ??

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Tunica means “hat.” Albuginea means “white.” White hat.

Correction: I just read that “tunica” means “coat,” not “hat.”

I’m trying to pick up on some of my earlier research into this subject. My motivation is to better understand hanging, and to try to get some insight into how much weight I should be using.

I just found this article about bone lengthening. It describes the biology of what happens during the elongation phase, when the bone is actually being “distracted:”

Quote
After an osteotomy is performed, a hematoma begins to organize in the latency period. Pluripotential mesenchymal cells are activated into fibroblasts and osteoblasts, and type I collagen is laid down parallel to the vector of distraction. Bony trabeculae grow into the fibrous area from the periphery, parallel to the line of tension that occurs during the distraction phase. A bridge of immature bone forms across the distraction gap. During the consolidation phase, bony remodeling begins. Eventually, the regenerate matures into osseous tissue similar to the adjacent bone.

Perhaps more important for our purposes is the description of the effect of stretching on soft tissue:

Quote
Soft tissue also has the ability to grow linearly along lines of tension. This is referred to as distraction histogenesis. Skin, muscle, nerves, and vascular tissue are generated, not stretched. The advantage is obvious, especially for severe retrognathia, in which the stretched soft tissue envelope can contribute to relapse when a traditional mandibular osteotomy is performed for a large (>10 mm) advancement.

I believe bone lengthening is a fruitful area of research for us PE types, because lengthening a bone requires that the soft tissues lengthen as well. Note that the above quote does not refer to ligaments, tendons, or tunicas (in the generic sense, as coverings of an organ). However, skin and vascular tissue contain the same stuff that tendons and ligaments do (collagen and elastin), so there’s a good chance the same conclusions would apply.

Another article I haven’t posted here indicated that surgeons generally “transect” certain tendons of the leg when they do bone lengthening. The tendons then reconnect in a longer state as the screws are advanced. There’s probably some stretching that goes along with this, as well.


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Not a particulaly pleasant experiment, but perhaps useful nontheless:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…0&dopt=Abstract

Quote
A new canine cruciate ligament formed through distraction histogenesis. Report of a pilot study.

Aston JW Jr, Williams SA, Allard RN, Sawamura S, Carollo JJ.

Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas 75235-8883.

A modified Ilizarov external fixator was used to transfix the stifle joint in 13 dogs. A 1-cm cortical cancellous bone plug was outlined in the intracondylar notch of the femur after excising the anterior (cranial) cruciate ligament (ACL). Hardware attached to the plug allowed controlled distraction of the plug into a cut tibial channel trailing the regenerate ligament. No attempt was made to exactly recreate the normal anatomic course of the ACL. Some bone plugs became dislodged from the femur before distraction began, while others consolidated prematurely. These specimens produced scar only and served as a control group against which the regenerate ligament and normal ACLs were contrasted biomechanically, biochemically, and histologically. The dogs were killed at intervals from four to 21 weeks postoperatively. Load to failure at 21 weeks reached 71% of the mean normal. Histologic examination showed an improved fiber organization of the regenerate compared with the scar group. The regenerate and scar groups showed increased percent water compared with normal, while there was no significant difference in percent collagen and glycosaminoglycan content.

PMID: 1611760 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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Here’s another interesting link. It may be worth buying the videotape depending on what else I can find by the hunt and peck method:

http://www.vjortho.com/cgi/content/abstract/6009

Quote
In Part I of this extensive two-part presentation, Dr. Aronson reviews the compression-distraction histogenesis of bone and soft tissues — the basis for treatment when applying the principles of circular external fixation.


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Am I the only one who finds this absolutely fascinating?

This is a big deal, IMO. This connection to bone lengthening surgery provides an actual scientific basis for soft tissue stretching and regeneration. THere’s even a scientific term for it—“distraction histogenesis.”

Here are the benefits that may flow from this association:
*Easier to convince people that hanging works.
*Easier to learn the physiological basis for tissue growth by piggybacking on the work of orthopoedic surgeons and orthodontists.
*Better insight into how to adapt our routines for achieving gains.

If nobody responds soon, I’m gonna keep this goldmine of knowledge all to myself and never tell you all how I got a 14” shlong!!!

So there! :)


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Modesto it really sounds like you’ve done your research! I never knew a penis could be so complicated. Please keep sharing the goldmine of knowledge! As for the bone stretching, bone destroys itself daily and new bone is rebuilt, we are going to assume the penis tissue does this too?

I’ve personally wondered whether or not morning erections is when maximum penis growth occurs. Maybe it is when the whole penis growth biochemical cocktail is present in the penis and so the body makes it stretch with an erection. I know its not a very advanced theory. Since I’ve thought of that I’ve made sure to PE when I get morning erections. Morning erections could be when some sort of cellular breakdown and rebuilding occurs in order to maintain a healthy functional penis. So make sure to wear loose pants when you sleep and “free Willy” when you get morning erections. :)


BEFORE 5.75 EL 4.8 EG Vagina Length Database

NOW 32yrs old 8.5 BPSL 7.75 BPEL 5.5-5.75-6.25* upper/mid/base EG 5.0 BPFL glans tip 5.0 FG shaft Hang, Stretch, Jelq, Pump, Clamp

Goal 8.0 EL 6.0 EG Asian - Thai 5' 10" uncircumcised

SiamGuy,

Bone destroys and rebuilds itself through a process called “remodeling.” Ligaments and other types of connective tissue go through the same process, which is described using the same term. Actually, bone is a form of connective tissue, so bone growth and penile growth are close analogies.

I’m even more interested in what happens to the soft tissue that surrounds the bone. If the femur in the leg is strethed 2”, what happens to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments? They have to lengthen as well. For leg lengthening, surgeons generally “release” (cut) the tendons and ligs and allow them to reconnect as the bone is lengthened. For oral and facial surgery, the ligs and tendons are not cut and just grow with the bone. Tension applied by the extending bone actually causes tissue to regenerate, i.e., proliferate along the lines applied force.

Bone lengthening is analogous to using a stretcher device like the PenisMaster. Both operate by advancing a firm member (rods in the PenisMaster) to place the soft tissues under tension until they can grow to accommodate the new level of extension. This level is continually increased.

Hanging is a bit different, because the tissues never adapt to a new “length.” They instead adapt to a repetitively applied “force.” In theory, body adapts the same way to both exercises since both are experienced as tension by the tissues.

It’s interesting to me that the process of “distraction histogenesis” for leg lengthening begins by breaking the bone. Perhaps this event changes the chemistry in the area to make regeneration more likely. Importantly, distraction (stretching) isn’t begun until 10 days of so after the bone break. Still, I wonder whether some form of trauma catalyses regeneration.

Maybe not. After all, bones grow during normal development only at the growth plates. Connective tissue has to “keep up,” possibly solely through the process of distraction histogenesis. And there is no trauma involved in normal tissue growth.


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Ok. So, SiamGuy gets to find out the secret, but nobody else?


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