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Penis lengthening like bone lengthening?

I’ve tried in vain to find the reference to tunica thickness, but while looking I found another interesting article using rats: http://www.asiaandro.com/1008-682X/3/281.htm

“To clarify whether there are anatomical changes in tunica albuginea and corpora cavernosa in aged rats. Methods: Seventeen male Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into three groups based on age. Group A consisted of young rats (9 weeks), Group B, middle aged rats (14 weeks) and Group C, old rats (62 weeks). The penile samples were obtained and observed under a scanning electron microscope. Results: The thickness (mean±SD) of the tunica albuginea was 0.14±0.02, 0.16±0.03 and 0.06±0.02 mm in Groups A, B and C, respectively. The tunica albuginea of group C was significantly thinner than those of the other two groups (P<0.05) and the elastic fibers were diminished in the old rats. In the corpora cavernosa of old rats, the intracavernous pillars were irregular, in which many large collagen fibers could be observed, and the smooth muscle and elastic fibers were reduced. Conclusion: In old rats, the tunica albuginea became thinner with diminished elastic fibers; the collagen fibers of corpora cavernosa were increased while the smooth muscle and elastic fibers were reduced.”

I also find it somewhat interesting that the structural components of bone are termed trebeculae, as are the structural components inside the corpora. I do enjoy hypothesizing and speculating.


-Still bitter the y2k bug was a dud.

-My dear boy, do you ask a fish how it swims? (No.) Or a bird how it flies? (No.) Of course not. They do it because they were born to do it...

This just in on the strength of different parts of the tunica:

http://www.bjui.org/81/6/article/bju645.asp

Quote
The thickest part of the tunica albuginea is at the 12 o’clock dorsal position and at the 3 and 5 o’clock paraurethral ridge, well suited to accept the plication sutures (Fig. 2) [1]. The strength and thickness of the tunica correlate in significantly with location, the strongest area being at the 12 o’clock dorsal position and the most vulnerable area being on the thin ventral aspect underneath the urethra, where the longitudinally directed outer collagen layer is sparse [23].


This could be one reason why “banana-shaped” dicks are very common. It also confirms what we already know: the septum (12 o’clock position) is the toughest to extend.

Also, if you’re interested in mouse penis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…1&dopt=Citation

Quote
Three-dimensional architecture of collagen fibrils in the mouse corpus cavernosum penis.

Nakano T.

Department of Anatomy, Aichi Medical University, Japan.

The three-dimensional architecture of the collagen fibrils in the corpus cavernosum penis of the mouse was studied after digestion of cellular and some extracellular elements by NaOH. The tunica albuginea was made up of undulating bundles of collagen fibrils which were arranged in outer longitudinal and inner circular layers. In both layers, several bundles were successively stacked to show the conspicuous lamellar arrangement. On the outer surface of the tunica, the collagen fibrils were interwoven like lacework. The trabecula appeared as a group of collagen bundles which extended from the inner circular layer of the tunica and showed a wavy arrangement. The grouped bundles in the trabecula were covered with a delicate sheath of collagen fibrils. These architectural features of the collagen fibrils appear to be related to fluctuations in the diameter and shape of the corpus during erection and detumescence.

Shiver,

Your study of young and old rats may help answer the question of why older guys seem to gain more easily than younger ones—they have thinner tunicas.


Last edited by ModestoMan : 10-08-2004 at .

Here’s the best thing I’ve found so far on tunica thickness and its variability:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…st_uids=8158761

Quote
Anatomy and strength of the tunica albuginea: its relevance to penile prosthesis extrusion.

Hsu GL, Brock G, Martinez-Pineiro L, von Heyden B, Lue TF, Tanagho EA.

Department of Urology, University of California School of Medicine, San Francisco.

In 7 male cadavers the anatomical structure, thickness and tensile strength of the tunica albuginea of the penis, measured at specific locations, were determined. The tunica is composed of inner circular and outer longitudinal layers made up of collagen bundles. The outer layer appears to determine, to a large extent, the variation in thickness and strength of the tunica. The ventral groove (found between the 5 and 7 o’clock positions), which houses the corpus spongiosum, lacks outer bundles and appears vulnerable to perforation. The thickness of the tunica measured at the 7, 9 and 11 o’clock positions was 0.8 +/- 0.1 mm, 1.2 +/- 0.2 mm and 2.2 +/- 0.4 mm, respectively. Differences in the thickness of the tunica at specific locations were statistically significant (all p < or = 0.018). Symmetrical measurements were nearly identical in a mirror image arrangement (3, 5 and 1 at the 9, 7 and 11 o’clock positions, respectively). The stress on the tunica at penetration (breaking point pressure) measured at the 7, 9 and 11 o’clock positions was 1.6 +/- 0.2 x 10(7) N/m.2, 3.0 +/- 0.3 x 10(7) N/m2 and 4.5 +/- 0.5 x 10(7) N/m.2, respectively. The strength and thickness of the tunica correlated in a statistically significant manner with location (r = 0.911 and p = 0.0001). The most vulnerable area is on the ventral aspect (which lacks the longitudinally directed outer layer bundles), where most prostheses tend to extrude. This finding supports our belief that prosthesis extrusion often has an anatomical basis and is not merely a phenomenon caused by infection or compression.

PMID: 8158761 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

BTW, the above paper really makes me wonder whether V-stretches are worthwhile. If the bottom (ventral) side of the penis has no longitudinal fibers, is a separate exercise really needed to stretch it?

Your last study is a better one than that which I was alluding to, but it said much the same thing. Good find!

I guess V stretches would still target the botton of the septum somewhat. But the fact that everyone doesn’t have an extreme banana curve suggests that even though there is less tissue there it is still a force to be considered.

In case you were worried about rupturing your tunica:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…st_uids=2304187

Quote
The elasticity and the tensile strength of tunica albuginea of the corpora cavernosa.

Bitsch M, Kromann-Andersen B, Schou J, Sjontoft E.

Department of Urology and Pathology, Herlev Hospital, Denmark.

The aim of this study was to determine the tensile strength and the elasticity of the tunica albuginea (TA), and describe morphological structures in the tissue before and after mechanical deformities. Twenty cadavers of men aged between 33 and 83 were examined. Cavernosometry was performed in all specimens. Afterwards in five cadavers the flow rate was increased until a herniation of the TA appeared. A strength about 1500 mm. Hg was found. Similar results were found in four who had an inflatable prosthesis (AMS 700) inserted, and the intraprosthetic pressure increased until a deformity was noted. Slices of TA (thickness 1.3 to 3.3 mm.) from 11 specimens were tested in a tensiometer. The elasticity coefficient was found to be around 10(8) N/m2, and the tensile strength to be 600 to 750 mm. Hg (10(4) to 10(5) N/m2). The difference between the tensile strength achieved in the tensiometer and during saline infusion is possibly caused by the intracavernous framework. Microscopy showed that TA is mainly composed of collagen fibres which are situated in an undulating arrangement, with a few elastic fibres arranged longitudinally which connect the undulating bundles of collagen fibres. When the tissue is overstretched, the elastic fibres are destroyed and the undulating arrangement disappears.

PMID: 2304187 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The variability of tunica thickness may be what separates the hard gainers from the easy gainers.

You might want to check my math, but I think 1500 mm-Hg is about 60 in-Hg (divide by 25.4).

Quote
Microscopy showed that TA is mainly composed of collagen fibres which are situated in an undulating arrangement, with a few elastic fibres arranged longitudinally which connect the undulating bundles of collagen fibres. When the tissue is overstretched, the elastic fibres are destroyed and the undulating arrangement disappears.

I guess that, in essence is what mostly contibutes to improved flaccid hang, with a little help from the odd cross-link.

Shiver,

I liked your fibrosis argument better. Hypoxia induces fibrosis, which changes the ratio of collagen to elastin the CC tissue. The less elastin, the less retraction, I think.

People claim ADS helps them with flaccid hang. That’s totally consistent with the hypoxia findings. IMO, if improvements in flaccid hang aren’t accompanied by increases in erect length, you’re probably causing some fibrosis.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
You might want to check my math, but I think 1500 mm-Hg is about 60 in-Hg (divide by 25.4).

2.54 cm=1 inch
10 mm=1cm
25.4mm=1 inch

(1500mm) / (25.4mm/in) = 59.06 inches


If girth is king, why the hell does everyone keep talking about length?

So are you suggesting, Modesoman, that flaccid hang increases with collagen buildup. But wouldn’t erect length be increased by more elastin and less containment by collagen sheathing in the cc? And have I heard that ED is elevated when there is too much collagen in the ratio—sort of like too much resistance to the expansion by blood?

Originally Posted by swinglow
But wouldn’t erect length be increased by more elastin and less containment by collagen sheathing in the cc? And have I heard that ED is elevated when there is too much collagen in the ratio—sort of like too much resistance to the expansion by blood?

I believe that collagen forms the structure of the tunica. It’s like a chain-link fence that forms a closed shape to define the largest size the penis can attain.

Elastin is like rubber bands that connect different segments of the chain-link fence.

When the penis is flaccid, the elastin (rubber bands) cause the structure to collapse in on itself (retract). During an erection, the internal pressure pushes against and overcomes the weaker elastic forces, and pushes the penis out to its limit defined by the collagen framework.

Elastin doesn’t allow expansion, except insofar as it allows contraction and expansion is the opposite of contraction. An erection causes the penis to expand against the elastin until it hits the hard limit imposed by the collagen.

It’s probably true the excessive collagen in the CC’s contributes to ED. But that relates the the tissues inside the CC’s (smooth muscle and trabecula), not to the tunica which surrounds them. Different structures.

I’ve also read that hypoxia induces angiogenesis which could contribute to gains.


-Still bitter the y2k bug was a dud.

-My dear boy, do you ask a fish how it swims? (No.) Or a bird how it flies? (No.) Of course not. They do it because they were born to do it...

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