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Penis Growth in later life.

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The brand name for transdermal DHT is called Andractim. I have not purchased any in a while, but I got mine from All Saints Clinic. If you put “andractim” in your browser, you should find what you are looking for.

andractim

Sorry that I forgot the second part of your question. Andractim is a transdermal creme. You apply it to the penis,not to the scrotum.

On a second point, if you do not find DHT, you can use regular testosterone creme, and IT can be applied to the scrotum to raise DHT levels considerably, but it is much better to use DHT on the penis. Rub it in thoroughly.

Originally Posted by stagestop

Basically, you want to keep the hormone where it will do its work, as opposed to flowing through the body. DHT collects in hair follicles and increases baldness on those that are sensitive to it. Also, your concentration can be higher than when taken systemically.

But if you take it by injections or orals, the same effect should be expected I suppose, just you have to take higher doses, right? And the other way around, if you apply on the penis you get it in your whole system. Beside that, as far as I know, once puberty is done DHT has no effect on the size of the penis.

Hi Marinera,

When you compare transdermal application with oral, or injections, the question does come down to how effective one is in hitting the targeted area. If one was to compare transdermal to oral, depending upon the location of the targeted tissue, the amount of hormone that could be presented to the target tissue is much higher. A good analogy to this is in the treatment of gynecomastia (unwanted breast growth in men), where the protocol is for transdermal DHT, and concurrent estrogen suppression. Indeed, one of the causes of gynecomastia, is when the enzymes that convert T into DHT are suppressed. With reduced levels of DHT, and elevated levels of estrogen, the estrogen’s cause an increase in breast size. This also tends to show that there is not such a clear area between a receptor being turned off, or turned on.

Comparing transdermal to injection can be a difficult comparison. Targeting the point of injection, knowing how far the injection will flow, how fast the reaction takes place, etc,are part of the variables. When injecting into the CC, it is an easy target, with a fairly large volume (at least for an injection) so the variables are reduced. Also,since the CC is full of blood, dispersion throughout the CC is easy, although in the case of IGF-1 I do suggest that one alternates his injection site from one side to the other. This is why injecting with PGE-1 works well, and why injecting IGF-1 seems to work well. Injecting into the tunica would be challenging due to poor blood flow in connective tissue, radius of effective dispersal of the injectate, etc. Basically, injecting into the tunica is not at all practical.

To be sure, transdermal application has its challenges. Blood flow taking away the hormone from the targeted tissue is the big one. And interesting test in that regard is to apply DMSO to the penis liberally, and see how long it takes to taste the DMSO. The deeper the target tissue is, the more difficult transdermal application becomes. On the other hand, if blood is to be the dispersant, the penis has the advantage of being able to restrict blood flow somewhat and thereby keep the hormome available to the target tissue longer. Transdermal is also quite effective in bringing hormones into the body without having to go through the stomach or liver, which de activate to a considerable degree what has been swallowed.

As to the effectiveness of DHT on the adult male, there is evidence on both sides, but not much comes along that is on point for PE. Certainly DHT is one of the prime hormones in penis growth in puberty, and after puberty, those receptors are turned off, more or less. Once again, we get to a point where the devil is in the details. How does one quantify a response in these cases? How much growth can be attributed to the response of the body to tension? How effective are the DHT receptors? What growth factors can be utilized? The bottom line is that there is no definitive answer.

The statement that a hormone has no effect because the receptor is “turned off” is not an absolute, it is a relative. The relationship is how the interpretation of the signal is received. Hormones work by being at a target, or by not being at a target, or in opposition at the target with other hormones. Probably the best known of later, is the menstrual cycle. In that cycle, the estrogen’s start it off by telling the uterus to increase the endometrium. This continues until just before ovulation, when progesterone increases significantly. Progesterone has quite a number of uses, but in the uterus it acts as the opposition to the estrogen’s, telling it to no longer add to the endometrium. It is also the “glue” that keeps the blood and tissue in the endometrium attached (and it is what keeps the fetus from falling out of the uterus). The estrogen’s cause water retention, progesterone is a mild diuretic. Women that “spot” in the early part of their menstrual cycle do so because they lack progesterone, which is a fat soluble hormone, and if there are no fat stores, there is none to be had early in the menstrual cycle.’

When it comes to relating with other hormones, there are a number of variables. For instance, one synthetic progesterone (a progestin) is Depo Provera. Depo works by being very difficult for the body to expel, since it is not a natural hormone at all, the body has a very hard time metabolizing it. Therefore, when a woman takes it, her body reads it as progesterone, and since her progesterone levels appear to be high, she cannot have a period, hence, it is a birth control method. However, when Depo is given to males, it completely overpowers testosterone, and is referred to as “chemical castration”

Relative strengths of the hormones is also interesting when one considers PE. As an example, a healthy woman may make 300 mcg of estradiol at her high point in her menstrual cycle. She will also make about 20 to 25 mg of Progesterone at the high point in Progesterone production. The point being that ounce for ounce, the estrogen’s are some 60-100 times stronger in result that progesterone is.

When it comes to males, it is the same problem. A typical 18 year old may have a total testosterone level of 1,000, with maybe as much as 400-500 free testosterone. He will be able to have a number of ejaculations during a 24 hour period. However, if you supplement him with a 1 mg pill of estradiol (an estrogen) he will most likely be impotent in a day or so. The estrogen is perhaps 10 to 20 times stronger than testosterone on an ounce for ounce basis. As males age, testosterone declines, and the estrogen’s increase. This results in a loss of libido, poor erections, potential for gynecomastia, and reduced muscle mass. Adding DHT to the mix, makes a significant improvement to the aging male. Unfortunately, the body builders have abused this so much in the US that it is banned here. Sigh.

DHT is a very powerful hormone, and it is made in small amounts, which is kind of like the estrogen’s. Adding DHT will raise male libido significantly. As to PE, it will do nothing all by itself to the adult male, but to the adult male with a PE program, it comes into the “maybe helpful” category. Certainly the “tension over time” is required for growth factors to be released, but with them, if DHT is present, well, again, it is a maybe. Defining hormonal response to a “turned off” receptor, is difficult to quantify. This is one reason that I maintain an interest in the Chem PE side. I remain hopeful for more documentation to see what can happen. Sadly, it is hard to find, one way or the other.

Kind of a long response to a simple question. Sorry

Long but very interesting, thanks. Too give a short resume, you are saying that form of administration of dht could change slightly the body response and that you agree that most of DHT receptor’s are turned off but there still could be a slight effect. The same thought shared by Dr. Oz, if I’m not wrong.

Great Discussion, Guys

Originally Posted by stagestop
The brand name for transdermal DHT is called Andractim. I have not purchased any in a while, but I got mine from All Saints Clinic. If you put “andractim” in your browser, you should find what you are looking for.

I’ve suspected for some time that my system is particularly sensitive to estrogens that I (we) get from the conventional US food chain. I truly appreciate this detailed discussion of hormones, even if the addition of them may ultimately be moot given the fact that the receptors are either much reduced or non-existent. That said, I’ll give this transdermal DHT a try. Many thanks!

estrogen/testosterone balance

It is one thing to talk about receptors that may not be sensitive, and another thing when we talk about our estrogen/testosterone balance. As men age, they make less testosterone, but there estrogen levels go up. This is not helpful in a number of ways, one of then is with your libido. As a quick test, you can buy a bottle of DIM (diindolymethane), take the suggested dose, and see if your libido goes up a bit. If so, you probably have an estrogen problem. There are other prescription medications that will also do a job on the estrogen/s, but this may be the easiest way to get a non prescription test.

A Test Worth Taking

Originally Posted by stagestop
It is one thing to talk about receptors that may not be sensitive, and another thing when we talk about our estrogen/testosterone balance. As men age, they make less testosterone, but there estrogen levels go up. This is not helpful in a number of ways, one of then is with your libido. As a quick test, you can buy a bottle of DIM (diindolymethane), take the suggested dose, and see if your libido goes up a bit. If so, you probably have an estrogen problem. There are other prescription medications that will also do a job on the estrogen/s, but this may be the easiest way to get a non prescription test.

Thanks for that idea. I’m not on any medications, but I had noticed my sagging libido (probably natural aging, lower levels of testosterone and too much weight. Since beginning PE I’ve noticed a marked increase in libido. I’ve also lost 12 pounds (with the help of Garcinia Cambogia w/ potassium.)

Thanks also on the warning about Murcuna Pruriens (permanent tics if too much is taken.) Is there a test to determine if you’re one of those in that 15% group who needs more dopamine? Since taking it I’ve experienced better mind/muscle coordination and a general better mood.

Tests for Dopamine

There are no blood tests for Dopamine since it does not travel in the blood. There are urinary tests for Dopamine metabolites, but very few people use them. Since you do not have any specific problem, getting the problem cured cannot be a yard stick, but since you feel better, keep using it. It won’t hurt you at all, unless you really get carried away.

Originally Posted by stagestop
There are no blood tests for Dopamine since it does not travel in the blood. There are urinary tests for Dopamine metabolites, but very few people use them. Since you do not have any specific problem, getting the problem cured cannot be a yard stick, but since you feel better, keep using it. It won’t hurt you at all, unless you really get carried away.

Thanks, stagestop. I’ll try not to get carried away, on any front.

This has turned out to be an interesting thread. Stagestop, your knowledge about chem pe is astounding. I stumbled on this thread because I’ve been on trt for about five years now and just last month I noticed a slight length increase. It’s probably nothing but I will be keeping an eye on my measurements for sure. I haven’t PE’d in a long while.

Thank you

Hi Smiley Dog, Thank you for the kind words. When you write TRT, do you mean thyroid replacement therapy?, or perhaps testosterone replacement therapy? or something else?

I’ve been on testosterone for about 5 years now. Recently I started finasteride with the test. I’ve read horror stories about finasteride causing penis shrinkage so if figured I would get a good measurement before I started it. I measured 7.5 bone pressed to the max. This is what I’ve been at since I was in my early 20’s except for a brief hanging period when I managed to get it up to 7.875. Just last week I measured after 3 months on the fin. It was clearly 1/8 inch over the 7.5 mark I made. It could be due to the cock ring I’ve been using lately during sex. I’m don’t think I’ll be experiencing any more gains than that.

Wow. Finasteride makes the penis longer.

Just kidding. I bet it is the cock ring.

Originally Posted by SmileyDog
I’ve been on testosterone for about 5 years now. Recently I started finasteride with the test. I’ve read horror stories about finasteride causing penis shrinkage so if figured I would get a good measurement before I started it. I measured 7.5 bone pressed to the max. This is what I’ve been at since I was in my early 20’s except for a brief hanging period when I managed to get it up to 7.875. Just last week I measured after 3 months on the fin. It was clearly 1/8 inch over the 7.5 mark I made. It could be due to the cock ring I’ve been using lately during sex. I’m don’t think I’ll be experiencing any more gains than that.

Hi Smiley Dog, I go with the cock ring as well. Suppressing DHT is not helpful for PE, but it does help one keep his hair. As to the horror stories, one of the areas of medicine that irks me about these stories is that the basal hormonal levels are never considered, nor reported. It is kind of like trying to make a comment on what happens when a certain amount of water is added to a particular container, without describing how much water was in there to begin with, then commenting about what happens to the water level.

Glad that it is working out for you.

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