PE in the 21st Century

The theory and practice of PE has come a long way, and Thunder’s Place is the leader in this field.
However, there is much that remains unclear.

There are some who gain easily enough, but even they reach a point where the gains don’t come easily at all. Others get the first inch within a year of effort, but then afterwards more gains become very difficult to achieve. Reaching a length gain of two inches has proven quite difficult to accomplish. Some have much difficulty even gaining the first 1/4”.

Some factors that resulted in me starting this thread:

1) Gaining has become very difficult for me for quite some time now. I admit I’ve been half ass about it, but I should be gaining better than this.

2) The recent comment that we’re still in the Dark Ages. Nothing new being said there, but it had an extra impact on me this time.

3) An ongoing poll looking at the relation between age and gains in PE. The teens are running away with the ‘easy gains’ percentage.

4) A possible MSM - poll connection. Regarding PE, I’ve had interest in MSM before because it’s said to make cells elasticated. However, it increases collagen production, and since extra collagen is generally considered to have a negative effect on PE, I backed off using it. Recently though, I suddenly thought of a connection: the many teens showing easy gains —- that they possibly have more elasticated cells, and are producing more collagen —- and MSM being said to creat the same conditions (at least to some degree).

There may be a flaw(s) in all this theorizing and connecting I’m doing here. Despite that possibility, since MSM is considered good for general health well being, I went ahead and purchased it today, and took a capsule earlier.

While at the healthfood store, I suddenly noticed MSM in lotion form. Since it’s safe to use on the face, I stood there and pondered using it to jelq with. I thought about the possibility that teens could be making better gains not only because their ligs may be less resistent, but also because their tunica may be less resistent also. I thought, wouldn’t be great if MSM in lotion form can safely be used to jelq with and help create an environment that makes tunica gains easier. I very much want to use it for jelqing, but am uncertain. The lotion’s ingrediants are: Deionized Water, MSM (15%), Isopropyl Myristate, Stearic Acid, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Triethanolamine, Fatty Acids, Methylaparaben,
Propylparaben, Allantoin, Jojoba, Rosemary, Saponaria, Espinosia, Guaca, Chamomile.

The reason teenagers are getting “easy gains” is because they are still growing naturally. My dick didn’t stop growing until I was at least 20. When I was 19 I messured 5.5” NPB. I ended up with 7” NPB when I was done growing.

But your just one person I’m sure theres many kids out there who have stoped at like 16, 17 or something in there but I also heard ligs don’t stop growing for most people until your 21 maybe that has something to do with it

Peter, my understanding from reading at Thunder’s in the past, has been that in general guys don’t grow but about 1/16 of an inch longer between ages 16 and 21. Perhaps you were an exception?

I do believe that even though most guys may have stopped growing earlier than I did, their tendons and ligaments are much more flexible in the late teens and early twenties. The lotion you mentioned will not be able to penetrate deep enough in your penis to make a difference.

With all of us writing so much about so many facets of PE, it’s easy to get lost in the information or read the implications of something the wrong way up. I don’t know if it’s common knowledge here, or if I’ve been working under erroneous suppositions, but I’d like to clarify my point of view, if for no other reason than to see if it fits in with your model of how things work or should be disregarded.

We talk about plastic deformation, cross-linking, fibre bundles, micro tears etc. We talk about it as if there’s more than one theory, from which we hope to ascertain which one is correct. I would suggest that they can co-exist, as they are different processes:

There’s nothing wrong with making lots of collagen, provided that it’s going where you want it to go. If you believe that actual cell recruitment can occur to facilitate growth, then MSM may well be a good thing. If you have a condition (or create one) that leads to plaque formation, adhesions or excessive cross-linking, then MSM will probably help put the brakes on gains. However, even in the second scenario MSM wouldn’t really be the issue. The aim would be to identify what is causing that pattern of behaviour in the tissues rather than avoiding the nutrients that facilitate it.

If you believe that only deformation of tissues can occur, and there is no real growth, then I doubt MSM would provide any real benefit over a normal diet, since exercise would only be expressing the best available dimensions or recovering lost size due to lack of training or disuse.

My own take is that both of the above occur (both deformation and new cell recruitment). I think it’s well worth heating, stretching etc to get the optimal size in a short time in order to provide the best lattice/matrix for cells to recruit and remodel around. I’m not a fan of heavy weights or punishing exercise, as although I believe it will provide faster adaptation (up to a point), with too much stress the adaptation may well be for the tissues to dig its heals in and resist, rather than cooperatively adapt with your intention. For that you need time. If you have more time then the critical nature of nutrition rate is less important, and you may find that you get by without supplementation provided the diet is a well rounded one.

Having said all of that, MSM isn’t the kind of thing you can easily overdose on (if at all) in a toxic sense, and I wouldn’t anticipate any negative side effects other than possibly gastric distress if you take more than your digestive system is enzymatically capable of coping with. If you use it topically then it might make your skin more pretty over time, and possibly even reduce some iron discolouration (QED). For this purpose though I would go with the oral route. I’d also buy it as pure crystal and put up with the taste, as it’s easier to get a decent dosage and cheaper than capsules.

Addendum:

I remember reading somewhere when I first learned about MSM that it makes cell walls more permeable. It recommended that the dosage start small and work up as it may allow stored toxins to be released into the blood stream, and high dosages may lead the patient to believe that it is the MSM making them feel bad when it’s actually helping to clear out the system and give cell function more vitality. I’ve never noticed anything like this, but everyone is a little different.

While writing this I noticed that my finger joints are a little sore for no apparent reason. Perhaps I should dig out the MSM too! :)

Shiver,

Thanks.

MSM is said to heal scar tissue.

I’m going to give it a try.

I think I’m also going to use the lotion. Not only because I’m curious if it could somehow aid PE, but also because I have dark discoloration from hanging and want to see if it lightens that.

In my first post I accidentally left ‘it’ out.. That should have read “I thought, wouldn’t it be great…”.

I started taking MSM 3-4 months ago with the idea that it would help with discoloration, which it has in a small way (although a rest period of 4 weeks in June provided a much greater improvement).

One positive side effect - and bear in mind I am in my mid 40s - has been that the fine wrinkles in my skin have almost all dissappeared. I can’t say when this happened, but there is no doubt that the tiny wrinkles surface lines are gone: smooth as a baby’s bum, I am.

That lotion looks interesting, but the two parabens in it would scare me away from regular use.

If you want MSM topically, I would highly recommend getting hyaluronic acid and adding as much MSM as will stay in suspension. It gives immediate and dramatic effect to skin condition, and could help improve condition structurally over the long term. It’s pretty good for shaving with too. Despite the HA being an ‘acid’, it’s absolutely without any irritation. Many times I’ve gotten it in my eyes when using it on my face, and there’s no sting. It also won’t cause and allergic reaction (it’s present in all skin cells), and won’t cause dermatitis like alcohol based creams/gels can in some.

I got a litre of it from ebay.com, then dilute the MSM crystals and put it in a dispenser pump in the bathroom so that I don’t forget to use it after washing, shaving etc. Both HA and MSM are easily absorbed in the skin so you don’t need any additional carriers. Some cosmetic versions of HA contain parabens, matrixyl, glycerin etc, so if you want to avoid these then ask those questions before ordering (particularly if you want to take it orally!).

I still think oral/capsule use may have some benefits than topical can’t reach though.

Shiver, I’ll keep it in mind. I bought the lotion yesterday when I got the capsules, so I’m going to use them. It cost more, but I got ‘Pure MSM’ capsules by TriMedica, and ‘Pure MSM’ lotion by TriMedica. They claim to make a superior prdouct, containing no harmful metals and no fossil derivatives that other brands do. I’ve got my hopes up about all this, probably a foolish thing to do.

As far as how we grow goes, I really don’t know which theory to favor. As you said, there may be more than one occurring at the same time. Maybe the future can provide answers. Some here believe mainstream will eventually latch on. If so, maybe then a controlled study group will be followed, and perhaps even microscopic observations can be done?

I think the MSM will either be beneficial or neutral. I really can’t see a way it could do any harm. Even if it doesn’t help PE, you might see some other benefits.

Where’s that poll?

In contrast, several of the megagainers in the Collected Wisdom thread are in their 40s and 50s:

Bib, gained some 4.5/1.5 (inches, EL/EG)
Jelqtoid, 3.0/1.5
MadMax, 1.5/0.6 (okay, not megagains)
avocet8, 2.4/0.7
Ophiosaurus, 2.2/1.1