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P.I.V. - gains forecaster?

Interesting stuff there Wad, that’s for sure.
My only problem with it is that I fall well and truly into the grower category and have had fantastic gains.
And, I’m still probably one of the ultimate growers! My flaccid hang, although better, is still mediocre at best, 4 x 4 on a very good day.

Of all the things I have learned in PE, one keeps coming back and slapping me in the face…there are no hard and fast rules.
The more I think about it,the only thing in my mind that counts, it the determination of the guy doing the tugging.

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Is there any statistics on the difference in gains between those who were growers and those who are showers?

I think a poll is in order… Wad, if you post a poll, try to be really careful in how you do it; it seems like 80% of the polls around here end up uninterpretable due to unclear directions, too many categories, poorly selected categories, etc.

>Furthermore, your challenge to me to cite one study that demonstrates that smoking and/or caffeine may detract from PE is nothing but disingenuous rhetoric.

Wad, I haven’t used any rhetoric. Your assumption that these “lifestyle” factors affect PE gains is exactly that, an assumption. You are assuming it is fact, probably because it sounds nice and meets “common sense,” but that doesn’t make it true.

I ran across a study the other day about oxygen tension in the penis and how it affects the tissues, particularly collagen. When tension is high some things happen, and others when low. For all we know about the physiology of PE, periods of sub-normal circulation may be beneficial. I doubt they are. I’m not saying they are. I’m saying I don’t know and you don’t either, so stop prentending you do.

Perhaps you missed the discussions about a negative caloric balance (dieting) and restricting vitamin C intake possibly being conducive to better PE gains. Someone pondered whether a starving guy with scurvy might make the best progress. :)

Personally, I don’t think nutrition, smoking, etc. makes much if any difference either way for PE purposes. That is my current opinion, not fact.

Originally Posted by mm
Wad,

You mentioned your LOT went up after a dedicated tunica cycle.

What did you do exactly for the tunica?

mm


A great deal of stretching between 10-12 o’clock, including v-stretches. I practically ignored all stretching below 10 o’clock - usually did this 7 days per week, for lengthy sessions.

Andrew, you said your flaccid is 4 x 4, but I’m sorry I don’t know your present EL. My EL is 7.72”, but my “typical” flaccid is about 3.75 (nbp) x 5.2 (pretty pathetic). I know you made some dramatic gains, but what was your LOT? I think penile elasticity probably doesn’t have as much to do with lig gains as is does with tunica/CC/CS gains.

Para, a poll is probably in order - a clear, concise one as you mentioned.

hobby, I have no proof about studies - I can’t even “prove” that PE works. I wouldn’t argue that super-nutrition aids growth, but I’m a firm believer in increasing blood flow to the area. And smoking and caffeine have been proven to diminish blood flow. Much of the purpose of hot wraps is to increase blood flow. And many guys wrap after a PE session to trap as much blood in the unit as possible. Again, it would seem to stand to reason that anything that compromises blood flow has to be a bad thing.

One more thing, I know that my gains haven’t been “horrendous,” and I know that some guys have gained less - but I also know that some guys have exceeded my 2.5 yr gains in less than 1 year. I certainly wouldn’t consider myself an easy gainer, although I am thankful to have gained anything. I can both see and feel the difference - especially when I’m womb-drilling. :)

Hey, I wondered what the consensus might be on the grower/show-er cutoff. There’d need to be some type of percentage so that guys would know what to select.

On the flip side of this issue, I think guys who are growers might have a little more potential for total gains - over time. It seems rather common that when a guy nears his gains “potential” his flaccid tends to enlarge even more (probably due to diminishing elasticity). That guy I knew who PE’d originally went from 5-7” rather quickly, but then stopped. After he took it up again later, he said he was “almost 9 inches.” In the restroom at the athletic facility he made a point of showing off a huge flaccid - probably 7+ I’d say. I don’t know what his earlier ratios were, but I bet his flaccid gradually creeped closer to his erect length. In fact, I’ll bet that is probably the point when gains ultimately dry up - when there’s very little elasticity left. So, the more elasticity you now have, the further away you are from that point.

But if you take a dedicated hanger, like Bib, I’ll bet they ultimately reach the point of exhausting tissue elasticity. It seems reasonable that there’s only so much plastic deformation you can impart to your penis. I know that Bib said he willingly stopped at 10 or 10.5” length, but I doubt he could’ve gained much more anyway - regardless of how much he increased his hanging load (of course, the argument might be, why would he want to gain much more - but that’s beside the point).

Think about it, if there were no limit to gains, guys would be crazy enough to develop 20” dicks or longer. And I’d bet that “limit” occurs with the exhaustion of tissue elasticity.

There are definitely some very interesting thoughts here.

Weren’t most of Andrew69 gains from jelqing in the shower? I would think this would mean most of his gains were from the tunica, with heat helping to stretch the collagen into plastic deformation. Hot wraps in my opinion are more for creating this effect on these tissues, rather than for increasing blood circulation. (Though I don’t disagree with Wad that blood flow is very important, and I’m with you on the minimizing vasoconstrictors in ones diet. Along with using vasodialators to increase blood flow.)


:flame: "If you build it, they will cum."

Redwood\'s Progress Report/Routines Thread.

Red,
You bring about a good point about vasodilators. I used to take ginseng for a while and it sure seemed to help my average flaccid (not sure why I quit). Do you take any? If so, any luck?

And I agree that the primary purpose of hot wraps isn’t to increase blood flow (you can do that with some jerking), but all of the PE guides I’ve ever read constantly harped on the blood flow thing. And a number of guys will velcro wrap after a PE session to trap as much blood in the unit for as long as possible afterwards (I think that can have some beneficial effects).

I take ginseng, ginko, cayenne and arginine which are all suppose to help vasodialate. Then I do the Velcro wrap like you mentioned all day to keep more blood in. However I don’t think this is so much getting better blood flow as it is slowing it down(damming it up) and causing blood to build up. So really it isn’t about maximum nutrients flowing in, but simply extra blood to take up space and keep the tissues maximized so that they plastic deform over time.

I think what I have been doing has been quite effective as I’ve been PEing for 10 months or so and have gained 1” in both dimensions, which to me is pretty good.


:flame: "If you build it, they will cum."

Redwood\'s Progress Report/Routines Thread.

I´m a total grower and have had fantastic gains in just a month (0.9” in length). As I gain, I´m becoming a shower, but in the beginning (one an a half month ago) I had a 1.5- 2” flaccid hang. Now I hang around 2.5- 3”. Besides that, you could say my gains are because of a high LOT, but no. My LOT is low, between 6 and 7, so “apparently” that couldn’t be a reason for quick gains.

I´ve noticed that in the past my penis used to be more elastic, and much softer in its flaccid state. Now it´s harder, I can even feel its interior fibers when grippin it with my fingers.

At least in my case, I think it´s the oposite (grower v.s shower). But that is just my opinion, I´m just a newbie.

navarro,
Thanks for the input, this is what we need. Btw, great gains - keep going!

>>”As I gain, I´m becoming a shower, but in the beginning (one an a half month ago) I had a 1.5- 2” flaccid hang….I´ve noticed that in the past my penis used to be more elastic, and much softer in its flaccid state. Now it´s harder, I can even feel its interior fibers when grippin it with my fingers.”

Those two comments you made confirm that your tissues are becoming less elastic - as I suggested happens as we progress in PE. Remember when I said that the gainers usually become more show-ers than they were and when the penis reaches a point of very little elasticity, that’s probably when the gains dry up?

But I would also agree that with your low LOT, you’re big gains were only minimally from ligs. Keep doing what you’re doing, since you’re gaining. But when the gains stop, I’d suggest you take a little break - especially since you’ve noticed that your unit is become tougher, less flexible.

What you’ve done is made great newbie gains. Now for the tough part - to sustain some gains over the long haul. That’s the real test.

Navarro’s great gains are a mystery we all want an answer to. I have a stupid little newbie theory, let’s see what you say.

I remember that Navarro wrote in his report that he does his PEing in the morning, IMMEDIATELY AFTER HE GETS UP. I have noticed that penis feels most soft and elastic when I get up in the morning. Of course, we all do a warm up before PEing, but still, to me at least, penis feels somehow different first thing in the morning.

I didn’t think about this too much (partially because I’m lazy to get up early and do PEing immediately), until I read this Wadzilla’s thread. Now, this assumption is totally opposite to Wadzilla’s theory, because he claims that growth comes slower to more elastic penises. Still, it seems to me that I’ve recently read posts by several members who had good gains and who do their PE in the morning, after or during the shower. Could I be on to something here or is this just bull what I’m writing?

Nemanja, ;)

I doubt my gains are a mystery, since I´m not the only one who have had great gains in the short term. Look at Andrew69, for example, or lil12big1, or some others easy gainers, who have had continuous gains, not just newbie luck.

Wad,
I completely agree with you. I am sure most of 85% of my gains in my first month are from jelqing, the other 15% from tunica and ligaments stretching. Why do I say that? Because in the very beginning I barely felt the basic stretches, I felt my ligs and tunica really tough (never felt like I was stretching them); but as time goes on, I´m starting to feel a progressive stretch in them, which I never had before. This just started to happen since 2 weeks ago, so I can conclude that my next gains ratio will switch to 50% from stretching / 50% from jelqing. Besides, I´ve observed that when I started the newbie routine I could actually feel the blood flowing every jelq stroke I did, like the blood running fast inside my penis, a hard to describe feeling. Now I´m having less of that and my penis is reaching a point of less elasticity, (still soft, but not as it used to be).

So, I would suggest, following your original idea, that a gains forecaster could be how soft the penis is in the beginning. My penis was soft as a sponge, without any interior texture feeling. Now it is starting to feel more like a rope, like I said before, I´m starting to feel its interior fibers, like little cables along the shaft. But I think this indication would only forecast the jelqing gains, not the stretching or hanging gains, which come from the tunica and ligaments.

Originally Posted by navarro

I could actually feel the blood flowing every jelq stroke I did, like the blood running fast inside my penis, a hard to describe feeling.

A long time ago, I read in one pay site that this feeling is the indication that jelqing is being done properly.

I’ve also noticed a tougher feeling to my penis, the skin is still nice and soft, but the penis itself is less soft like body fat and more hard like relaxed muscle.


:flame: "If you build it, they will cum."

Redwood\'s Progress Report/Routines Thread.

Originally Posted by navarro
So, I would suggest, following your original idea, that a gains forecaster could be how soft the penis is in the beginning. My penis was soft as a sponge, without any interior texture feeling. Now it is starting to feel more like a rope, like I said before, I´m starting to feel its interior fibers, like little cables along the shaft. But I think this indication would only forecast the jelqing gains, not the stretching or hanging gains, which come from the tunica and ligaments.


navarro,
Later on, after you take your first extended break, your unit will regain a lot of that softness/sponginess - mine does.
Certainly, the softer your unit is, the further it is away from that rigid stage. But I still suspect that guys who have very elastic tissues are going to have trouble gaining because those tissues just spring back to normal.

And on your last statement, I understand the fibrous “ribs” you feel and what you mean, but you kind of jumbled the issues together. “Jelqing gains” do include tunica gains - but only very little lig gains (unless you do slow strong jelqs straight down at 6:00). The only thing that “rigidity” doesn’t really represent are the ligs. But jelqing does work the tunica, and so do certain stretches (stretches about your LOT, V-Stretches, etc.) - both of these will be affected by lessening elasticity.

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