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More Thoughts On Training Frequency...

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Thank Shiver. He found it.

I think it’s hard to cause a macro-injury to the penile tissues when conservatively performing PE. A macro injury would be a torn ligament or a burst tunica.

The goal of PE, as I understand it, is to use our bodys’ collagen-producing factories to our advantage by encouraging growth of the ligs and/or tunica in the desired direction.

I recently posted a thread about bone lengthening. It seems to me that PE is analogous to bone lengthening. First, you cause some trauma (cutting the bone, or, with PE, hanging to fatigue). The trauma causes an inflammatory reaction which creates a soft bridge. In bone lengthening, this is certainly a macro-injury. In PE, it’s micro-tears. Over time, by application of tension, the bridge is then “distracted,” or stretched. The continued inflammation kicks the fibroblasts into action to output collagen, and growth ensues in the direction of the applied stress. New, healthy tissue fills the void.

Obviously, one can go too far in causing damage. If inflammation becomes chronic, it can cause fibrosis and scarring. The line to walk, then, seems to be one at which healthy recovery coexists with continued, low grade inflammation. Bib called this state “fatigue.” You feel the stretch, there’s some dull aching, and you’re unable to maintain your maximum hanging weight over multiple sets. If days go by and you can’t get back to your max, you’re probably overdoing it. On the other hand, if you can hit your max whenever you want to, you’re probably not doing enough.

To summarize the above drivel, you always want to keep injury at least slightly ahead of healing.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

Huge,

To answer your question…I really don’t know.

The approach I’ve taken is to get away from theoretical and use practical observations.

I don’t know if we will ever see any real research into our little specialty interest, that is PE.

Short of any real research being done on this subject, this is all a matter of extrapolating information that is known about inflammatory processes and tissue injury, to the penis.

That is not to say that it doesn’t have validity…it does.

My position is….now what?

The scientific method is;

1 Form a hypothesis
2 Perform an experiment based on the hypothesis
3 Objectively judge the results
4 Reformulate the hypothesis if results are not consistence with the expected outcome, based on your observations

So, we as a community have no real shortage of theories, experimentation. We tend to fall down a little on #s 3 and 4.

In order to make valid ( and USEFUL) objective observations, you have to really study the results.

This is where we REALLY fall short! We pump, pull, stretch, hang, jelque and God knows what else we do to ourselves… all with that hopeful expectation of some gains.

Many times we don’t even measure but once a week or month or several months, praying that when we do…we will see gains!

To me, thats kinda’ like getting in your car in LA to go on a trip to NY and just START DRIVING! No maps or directions…you’ll check the map in a couple days….

How long do you think it will take to get to NY with that approach?

Do you think you will ever get there?

If you do…is it more than pure luck?

So, I wish to make as my contribution to PE, the concept of making observation of your penis more of a science.

From my own personal observations, and from reading what others post, there are some definite guide posts on the road to growth or ruin.

I think that any force induced into the penis can cause change. It is a matter of determining what forces are most productive for YOU that will allow you to make positive changes.

I think it is far better to learn to use these general guide posts ( and learn the finer guide posts for your body) than to just follow general guidelines of sets/reps and time and constantly try new ones when you don’t get good results.

Sparkyx

Quote
The approach I’ve taken is to get away from theoretical and use practical observations.
I don’t know if we will ever see any real research into our little specialty interest, that is PE.
Short of any real research being done on this subject, this is all a matter of extrapolating information that is known about inflammatory processes and tissue injury, to the penis.
In order to make valid ( and USEFUL) objective observations, you have to really study the results.
This is where we REALLY fall short!

Sparkyx, I am not sure who you are refering to. Observing the quality of your erections to determine if you are overdoing it is not a new idea, nor is it rocket science. And flaccid hang is all over the place even when not practicing PE. Most of us who are serious, do keep careful records and “practical observations” and also delve into the “theoretical research”, which you would “get away from”. I understand that you are trying to be helpful by telling us the “holy grail” is self observation in how your own body responds, but I believe that is already done by all but newbies. So please don’t attempt to discredit this thread because it is “theoretical”. Thanks!

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SmilingBob,

My post, as I stated in the beginning of my post, is to Huge.

The title of this thread is “More thoughts on training frequency”. How are my thoughts on training frequency an attempt to discredit it?

Further I stated;

“Short of any real research being done on this subject, this is all a matter of extrapolating information that is known about inflammatory processes and tissue injury, to the penis.

That is not to say that it doesn’t have validity…it does.”

So, once again, I am stating that there is validity to extrapolating research on non-penile tissue to penile tissue.

My point is (was), what actually is happening (with PE), short of actual research on penis enlargement is SPECULATION on our part.

Is this incorrect?

You also stated that;

“I understand that you are trying to be helpful by telling us the “holy grail” is self observation in how your own body responds, but I believe that is already done by all but newbies.”

Yes, ALL but the newbies are self observing, but if not EVERYONE is getting good results, is the level of observation sufficient?

I certainly had no intention of discrediting your thread, I thought I was joining in in a spirit of logical discussion of concepts regarding training frequency.

If it came across to you in an offensive manner, I apologize.

Sparkyx

Interesting theories guys, great thread.
If I have understood this correctly according to this theory you should basically..

1. Create a trauma with some form of highly intensive workout (avoiding a serious injury obviously).
2. Systematically interrupt the healing process by doing frequent light-medium workouts.

At what frequency should you do the light-medium workouts and how long? It seems logical to do these several times every day just to be sure, because I’m not really sure how long it takes for the healing process to finish. It also seems that a simple 5 minute workout would be enough to interrupt the healing process and get a good stretch. Should you ever stop step 2 and take a break and then start all over again or should you strive to be at step 2 all the time?

I experience the deep dull aches (mostly around the base) when I stretch again hours within the last workout. After stretching lightly in the directions that trigger the ache they seem to disappear after a while, if I wait a couple of hours they are back, and I repeat the same process, is this what you’re talking about?

And last, this is a old thread, so I thought it would be a good time to ask what you think of it now in retrospect?

Thank you! :)
/Dicko

I stumbled on this again (thanks Dicko) and am impressed with it.

I am currently trying to find exactly what Bob was referring to…that fine line between stimulation and damage that causes contraction and toughening.

I have found the problem is that if I use a wt that is low enough to wear for hours…its not enough to cause a sufficient stretch…

If it is high enough, I can’t use it long enough to hit the time threshold needed for “growth” stimulation (20-30 minutes minimum…maybe) without causing enough damage to stimulate a toughening response.

I think the answer is to use a modest force for a short time, not enough force/time to cause a serious contraction reaction ( more than a few hours)…..

then follow with a low force (ADS) that isn’t enough to stretch…but enough to HOLD the stretch and satisfy the time requirements needed for growth stimulation.

So for example, I have been getting pretty amazing results (for me) by hanging for 2 sets of 5 minutes with 7.5 lbs (for stretch) then follow with 2 pe wts for 1 hour…then 1 pe wt for 1 hour.

At that point, I take the rest of the day and nite off and repeat the cycle in the morning.

This seems to fulfill all the above requirements WITHOUT causing a contraction reaction (and tissue toughening).

I don’t want to go public with my gains yet until I am sure….but I seem to be on to something…at least for me.

I keep the forces low enough so I can do this as a daily micro cycle…STRESS—RECOVER—-GROW—-REPEAT THE NEXT DAY.

I think that occasionally guys stumble on to this “sweet spot” and if they don’t f-it up by increasing the forces arbitrarily…can get sustained growth for some time.

I think a bunch of our vet pumpers have found this, and have sustained, injury free growth to prove it.

I think what makes it so difficult is rarely do we have the ability to take the necessary forces long enough to meet the “growth” time requirement, especially if we are using a “stretching” level force.

For example, Gprent is finding cycling up to 4 in hg repeatedly for 50 minutes…daily..is having amazing results. But Gprent has the ability to sustain those forces with little damage…from years of pumping.

Guys like me would be ruined by that force/time.

That’s why the two phase approach might make it more available to a greater spectrum of guys.

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