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Microtears Result in Plastic Deformation

Originally Posted by marinera
Hypertrophy isn’t the multiplication of cells, but the growth of existing cells.

New cells born in a tissue in four cases, by what I know:

1) when cancer developes;
2) when scar tissue is formed;
3) when tissue is broken (ex. bones);
4) when hyperplasia developes: but hyperplasia phenomenon never has been observed in humans.

So, I’m pretty skeptics that PE is related in someway with those studies.

This is exactly what I’d always believed. To my knowledge, hyperplasia has been observed in felines (amongst other animals), but never in humans.

So, after a human reaches maturity, your first 3 points apply. But skin cells also grow, and we shed our skin (something like once per month - but so gradually, not like a snake. And hair follicles also grow (new cells).

And while the cells in our body *replace* themselves, they do not grow “new” or “additional” cells - not once puberty has ended.

Hyperplasia may also be induced artificially by injecting hormones such as IGF-1 and human growth hormone. Perhaps the most interesting and potent effect IGF has on the human body is it’s ability to cause hyperplasia, which is an actual splitting of cells. Hypertrophy is what occurs during weight training and steroid use and is simply an increase in the size of muscle cells. With IGF use, one is able to cause this hyperplasia which actually increases the number of muscle cells present in the tissue. Weight training with or without anabolic steroid use enables these new cells to mature in size and strength. In addition, animal tests have shown that stretching a muscle can trigger hyperplasia though this phenomenon has yet to be confirmed in humans.[2]

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperplasia

Measuring that 3%

Originally Posted by ddogusterion
Kojak10…

Very interesting stuff. Wonderful contribution. Thanks.

I have two questions:.

Your documents say that “micro-failure begins at 3% elongation.”

My normal flacid approaches 6” or 152.4 mm, but a static stretch gives me 8.5” or 215.9 mm

My first question is this: 3% elongation … of which value? 152.4 or 215.9

I assume that it must be the latter.

On that assumption, my second question is this: it takes a bit of force to stretch my 152.4 mm to 215.9 mm,

more than a typical ADS provides.

3% elongation of 215.9 = 6.48 mm, or just a hair over 1/4”.

The force to get that last 1/4” in order to have 3% elongation is quite large.

I don’t think one could get that with any type of ADS, yet

your analysis (if I am reading it correctly) suggests it should.

Am I reading you correctly?

What are your thoughts?

DD.

I completely agree, If we can’t give exact weights and times for individuals; we need to quantify this 3% plastic deformation causing stretch. How do we measure that 3%?


Starting stats BPEL: 5.75", EG: 4.5 Current BPEL 6.75", EG 5" Target Size: BPEL: 8.5, EG: 6.5"

I have to correct myself.

As posted in this thread:

Yet another theory of how we grow

hyperplasia could maybe occurs in the normal recovering of bodyparts. The subject is a little complex, but it appears that fibroblasts (cells of connective tissues with interesting properties) proliferation happens in the penile tissue.

Originally Posted by ddogusterion
Your documents say that “micro-failure begins at 3% elongation.”
My normal flacid approaches 6” or 152.4 mm, but a static stretch gives me 8.5” or 215.9 mm

My first question is this: 3% elongation … Of which value? 152.4 or 215.9


Yes it’s 3% of your BPFSL, in your case 215.9 mm. That is your current maximum length so to speak, if you want to get bigger you have to go beyond that. If it was of your flaccid length you’d be having severe micro-failure everytime you got a boner lol

Originally Posted by ddogusterion
The force to get that last 1/4” in order to have 3% elongation is quite large.
I don’t think one could get that with any type of ADS, yet
Your analysis (if I am reading it correctly) suggests it should.
Am I reading you correctly?


You don’t have to achieve a 3% elongation instantly, you build up to it by being consistent with your training. Most likely it won’t happen instantly, because if it would we would be gaining all the time. With this theory it’s all about accumulative strain like Kojack is talking about.

This is amazing material. I’m a newbie.. I’ve been PEing for two weeks now, and I know for a fact my rest days have been minimal. I’ve been wearing a cock ring a lot, and my flaccid gains without it could probably be attributed to creep. However, I do feel like I am making gains. Like we say in body building: “Everything works, but nothing works forever.” Now, as we say in online-forum-trolling: “Bump for great justice!” :D

PS: I think everyone should be acquainted with the science of PE. Has there ever been discussion of making a “PE Science” forum?

Yes, MUS; but the point is: PE science doesn’t actually exists.

We like speculating on “science”, doing hypothesis and reasoning, but it will make more easily grow our brain than our penis :) .

Many had big gains without knowing more than this: clamp your penis and a day it will be fatter, pull your penis and a day it will be longer, don’t overdo, don’t injury yourself.

You don’t have to think that what you read in thread like this or the PE science thread has some direct applicable utility. Just to speak: trying to push your penis 3%+ your BPFSL can lead to stalling/injuries, since t BPFSL is, by definition, your max lenght in a given moment.

Hyperplasia happen in body building all the time it is seen every day in the gym when a guy who was 120 10 years ago grows to 250 then stops working out and goes down to 180 lbs he never goes back to the 120 lbs. You will never see hyperplasia in the lab naturally because it happens much to slowly over at least ten year time span.You will see it right away if you you MGF or PEG 2 but that’s another story.Please for the love of all that is good and holly stop using words like hypertrophy and hyperplasia to talk about how the penis grows they are used to explain how muscles get larger.I know hyperplasia is the close thing to talking about what we know as cell mitosis but it throws people of track and they start relating working out with penis growth.
Kojack10 I am with you on what you are saying.what I think kojack10 is trying to say is that you will have to hit a large number of hours if you just use a traction device around 400 to 600 before you start seeing any results in mine and others this rings true but if you use weight hanging you can hit the stressors that cause the body’s growth phase much quicker most guys who use vac type hang device don’t need to go past 15 lbs bib guys hang way more than that the device just can handle much more weight than the vacs can. Lots of guys get good result starting at 6 lbs to 15 lbs weight and use a ADS in the middle of the day.

If we are going to look for the most scientific way of increasing the size of the penis we need to look at a couple of things. That is what works for most of the people not just a small number.I would say weight hanging or traction or the combo of the 2 will work for most people I think manuals work for a small amount of the guys and these guys would be called easy gainers most likely do to weak ligs, tendons and tunica which makes it easy for them to gain off jelqing or manual stretching.

2 we need to look at producing the same amount of tension at every work out or session. We can’t do this with jelqing or manual stretching there is no way to quantify amount of pressure one person is doing to the next or how much weight you are exerting from puling on your dick doing manual stretching sorry manual guy this is a fact. So what we need is something like hang and traction work as the main focus of how we attack this problem or we will just be looked at as guys who like to jerk off allot in the hopes that are cock will one day get bigger by the rest of the world.

I am not saying manuals don’t work they do for a small amount of people but this isn’t what works for most and that is what we need to focus on.I think if we take a poll on who thinks manuals have given them there size or if it been a combo of hang an traction or hanging traction and manuals we will find more guys will say the last 2 and not a whole bunch on the first one.

As for PE science not existing what do you call people putting forth theory’s and testing them out isn’t that what science really is.There will never be a lab studies on this until some drug company finds away to make some kind of cream that yo apply to your cock to weaken the tunica and ligs and cause a massive erection for a couple of hours and you only have to where a stretcher for a couple of hrs per day. Most people are just to lazy to do anything more than that. This is why we have such a problem with obese people in the USA lazy lazy lazy the number one killer in the USA is heart disease not AIDS not cancer nope it’s some thing that can be totally stopped by diet and exercise.How lazy is that.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Originally Posted by marinera
Yes, MUS; but the point is: PE science doesn’t actually exists.

We like speculating on “science”, doing hypothesis and reasoning, but it will make more easily grow our brain than our penis :)


I tend to agree. There seems to be a lot more hypotheses than there is experiments and actual results. So we are stuck with a big number of hypotheses, but they need to be tested more. Basically you could say the questions is outnumbering the answers, by far.

Of course, science is not only about making hypotheses, that’s only the first part. So if we would like to be scientific about PE I think it’s time to start testing the hypotheses we got, not just come up with new ones. I’m not targeting anyone, I haven’t really done any experiments either. However, you could question the quality of the experiments, we haven’t exactly got a fancy lab, but it would be a start.

Originally Posted by marinera
You don’t have to think that what you read in thread like this or the PE science thread has some direct applicable utility. Just to speak: trying to push your penis 3%+ your BPFSL can lead to stalling/injuries, since t BPFSL is, by definition, your max lenght in a given moment.


It’s a bit arbitrary and tricky. The BPFSL will vary depending on how hard you stretch it out, since the penis is elastic. This means there’s a possibility that when you feel you have stretched it out to it’s maximum length, there might still be a very little amount of elastic slack left. Yes, +3% is something you would want to build up to, not try to achieve in an instance.

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5

…….

It’s a bit arbitrary and tricky. The BPFSL will vary depending on how hard you stretch it out, since the penis is elastic. This means there’s a possibility that when you feel you have stretched it out to it’s maximum length, there might still be a very little amount of elastic slack left. Yes, +3% is something you would want to build up to, not try to achieve in an instance.

So, BPFSL how is defined? Pushing with how much force? If you don’t have the answer, how can you say ‘You have to push to your BPFSL + 3%’? :)

Regarding experiments, to know what’s the mechanism(s) involved in PE gains would require direct microscopic analysis of tissue enlarged, done on a significative sample of PEers’ penises. I don’t think this is going to happens in the near future.

Originally Posted by marinera
Regarding experiments, to know what’s the mechanism(s) involved in PE gains would require direct microscopic analysis of tissue enlarged, done on a significative sample of PEers’ penises. I don’t think this is going to happens in the near future.


They should do these tests on inmates on deathrow.

Put the “deadmen” to use before they die. Make them give something back to the community that everyone can benefit off.


I'm a big fan of 50 Cent, or as we call him in Zimbabwe, four hundred million dollars.

Originally Posted by marinera
So, BPFSL how is defined? Pushing with how much force? If you don’t have the answer, how can you say ‘You have to push to your BPFSL + 3%’? :)


Exactly, that’s why I said it was tricky :) I don’t know about the 3% that’s the TS/articles figure, but I do agree on progressively increasing the BPFSL to reach the plastic range.

When doing a BPFSL it would be a good idea to use the same force all the time. It’s kinda like measuring, you have to measure the same way every measurement so the results will be more accurate. I find that the BPFSL is very accurate tough (it doesn’t vary much at all), so I think any more force used in the stretch would only result in a very very small increase in BPFSL. But yes, theoretically it’s quite arbitrary to draw any lines.

Originally Posted by marinera
Regarding experiments, to know what’s the mechanism(s) involved in PE gains would require direct microscopic analysis of tissue enlarged, done on a significative sample of PEers’ penises. I don’t think this is going to happens in the near future.


It depends on what hypotheses you’re going to test and what information you are after.

To get a full understanding of how PE works on could be quite tricky, but there are other useful hypotheses that could be tested. I’m mostly interested in the most efficient ways of gaining. If I figure out how to get gains fast safely but have no knowledge of how it actually works in complete detail, I would still think it’s useful. A full understanding of PE would enable us to create a perfect routine but like you said that’s aiming a bit too high for us, but that doesn’t mean we can’t get anything useful out of testing and experimenting.

For example, let’s say someone makes a hypothesis which claims that jelqing will only result in girth gains. This could quite easily be tested by many people without any fancy equipment. Let’s say you want to test different exercise/routines to see what kind of gains is produced by them. Again, this could be tested quite easily.

Agree. I was reffering to the specific (and basic) question: “How gains happens? Microtears? Cell proliferation? Elastic deformation? Hypertrophy? Fibroblast-mediated collagen production?”. I can’t see any other way to answer this question that specific tissues analisys.

Any vet want to cut a part of his dick and send it to a lab? :p

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