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Medical Verification

Medical Verification

I have long suspected that elasticity-to-plasticity is probably the most significant determinant in a PE’ers progress - more so than “LOT” or starting size, or any other variable.

In wantsmore’s thread, “The Upper Limit of PE: Does it exist?”, I responded in
post #58:

“Yes, this is precisely what I mean. Gains come as elasticity is exhausted (& plasticity occurs). Ergo, those with more elasticity (“growers”) have more gain potential - although a lot of elasticity can be tough to combat. While those with less elasticity (“show-ers”) might respond quicker (i.e., achieve plasticity sooner), they would theoretically have less potential.”

Even though some expressed skepticism regarding this idea, I had recently began a number of web searches (with the thought of finding/developing a topical muscle relaxer, with the hope of combating the limiting aspects of the tunica regarding PE) when I came upon the following…

“Priapism is a common complication of sickle cell anemia. We report a little known sequela of priapism: painless megalophallus, with significant penile enlargement. The patient had had an intense episode of priapism 9 years previously and his penis remained enlarged. Blood oxygen level-dependent magnetic resonance imaging revealed enlarged, hypoxic corpora cavernosa. Megalophallus probably resulted from permanent loss of elasticity of the tunica albuginea due to severe engorgement during the episode of priapism. This sequela needs to be recognized by physicians because no intervention is necessary and sexual function seems to remain intact.”

(link)

While its been known for quite some time that priapism can cause megalophallus, I was surprised with this description, for several reasons:

(1) A little known “sequela” of priapism may be painless megalophallus
(2) This type requires no medical invention
(3) Sexual function seems to remain intact
(4) In this case, only one episode of (severe) priapism resulted in this megalophallus
(5) His enlargement, having lasted 9 years (& counting) is most likely permanent
(6) They cite that the “Megalophallus probably resulted from permanent loss of elasticity of the tunica albuginea…”

While this proceeded dramatically (unlike typical PE), I would imagine that as his erection persisted (severely), the pressures against the tunica began to weaken (short-term) the structure, which allowed the erection to swell above previous size. Obviously, this could only happen so much before a severe injury occurs (which did not occur to this man - his sexual function remained intact). I would imagine that his girth probably swelled to the point right before a blow-out, then his erection(s) subsided.

But because the severe engorgement resulted in the permanent loss of elasticity, he never really went back to his original flaccid size…in a sense, he became the “ultimate” show-er (but more than that, because the very name “megalophallus” implies that there was also actual enlargement, and not merely greater flaccid size).

Obviously, none of us would want sickle cell anemia. Nor should any of us trifle with priapism, or make attempts to artificially induce this dangerous condition, I believe that the article at least implies 2 things:

(1) Greater size DOES result when penis tissues lose their elasticity.
(2) These types of gains (“cemented” gains occuring due to plasticity) appear permanent - or very nearly so [suffering only, perhaps, very minimal losses].

I don’t think that expanding the spongy tissues is the tough part at all, it’s overcoming elasticity. I think a good supplement such as ginseng (or some other vaso-dilator) will promote all the bloodflow you need. The next step is in overcoming the tunica.

The thread about Epsom Salts said that they promote vasodilation.

I might go out and buy some and soak in them post PE and see what happens.

Excellent post wadzilla! Very interesting! This should support that striving for fatigue while hanging will yield length gains? If this is true, it will be easier to know what to strive for to get gains!

Funny, you read the same thing thing I did, only I read it here:Megalophallus: 7.5” flaccid girth! (photo)

I came to the same conclusion, it’s all about the tunica…BUT…what the hell causes the “loss of elasticity”?

The conclusions they come to are “forced” conclusions if you will, simply because when all else is ruled out, your supposed to be left with the truth.

Medically speaking though, it’s not what should happen at all.

Still, we know the result and that it is possible, that is the important thing.

The other thing I’ve wondered is with the sudden and dramatic increase in length and circumference, do the inner tissues, “fill the void” so to speak, are these men fully functional in other words and if so, are there ANY erectile problems associated with this condition.

The ultimate thing would be to have this loss of elasticity occur at a predictably slow rate, giving the inner tissues time to adjust, on the other hand the cc is mostly like a sponge and a sponge as we all know can expand quite a bit it’s original size, but, we are still left to contemplate the nerves and blood vessels.


Last edited by EZ Rider : 07-04-2007 at .

EZ,
I think the very phrase “loss of elasticity” can be confusing in that it sounds almost like the depletion of a biological substance, and not merely the descriptive term for a physical state/condition, that it is.

Elasticity is more or less the property of a tissue/material to be stretched (by traction/force) beyond it’s “normal” size, then return to normal after the tension has been released. Call it “flexibility,” perhaps.

The ability to “return to normal” can be degraded by repeated tensions, especially vigorous traction, or a duration of time “under load.” When these forces are present, there is obviously real “change” in the tissue/material that is being subjected to those forces (known as “plastic deformation”). As in the case of a rubber band or a balloon or a cable, when the tension becomes too acute, failure/rupture results.

But under chronic tension, the material will start to become “overstretched” (deformed), in that it doesn’t revert exactly to it’s previous state. The material will actually begin to become longer than it was originally (even when zero tension is being applied). However, a material’s ability to “extend” is limited, and it varies greatly from one material to another (obviously, rubber is far more elastic than wood).

Regarding PE, the elasticity of the penis can be vividly seen during both erection and even in a simple flaccid stretch. By chronic application of tractile forces (“PE”), the penis starts to become “overstretched.” As this process advances, we enter the realm of “plastic deformation.”

As we’re “overstretching” the penis (over time, of course), we’re replacing some of the elastic properties with plastic properties (i.e., losing elasticity - which has a causal connection with gains).

The fact that 2 guys could both posess the exact same ELs, but the 1 guy has double the flaccid of the other guy is a stark, vivid illustration of how much penile elasticity can vary between guys.

The grower has more elasticity to “spend,” whereas the show-er, with less elasticity to battle, will probably achieve gains easier & quicker than the grower. However, the grower probably has greater potential for bigger gains because of his greater level of elasticity to work with. On the down side, the more elastic penis of the grower tends to keep “snapping back to normal” - making plastic deformation tougher to achieve.

I don’t believe that elasticity can be “restored.” In the case of the guy with megalophallus - or the guy who gains then loses 300 lbs, and has huge aprons of skin dangling around him (which can only be surgically removed) - plastic deformation is not a temporary state, like hypertrophy.

But even IF we could “restore” elasticity, what would happen? The penis would probably “snap back to normal” (i.e., you’d lose your gains). So, plastic deformation - for us - is not a “bad” thing. It is, in fact, what we strive for. The problem is, of course, that we have only so much elasticity to use up…and that’s that.

To continue hanging, for example, after you’ve exhausted all elasticity would probably result in a long, useless, damaged “pisspipe” (but that would take so many years of insane tenacity).

So if this is true, why do I tout “Deconditioning Breaks”?
Because, these breaks help prepare the penis for another round of growth - only when you have NOT used up all of your elasticity. Remember, gains don’t progress steadily until some point where everything slams to a halt. As you use up elasticity, further deformation becomes more difficult. These breaks don’t actually “add” elasticity, they just loosen up the tissues enough for you to “go another inning.” But, breaks or no breaks, 100% is just that….100%.

That is each guy’s PE “limits.”

* - P.S., I've come to believe that this is a far more accurate model of how PE “works” than the bodybuilding-type model that I'd subscribed to as a newbie. Even though my penis is double the volumetric size that it used to be, I didn't really “build” it, I deformed it…through the repeated application of both externally- and internally-invoked tractile forces.


Last edited by wadzilla : 07-04-2007 at .

Great post, but does this mean that long term PE can result in priapism and megalophallus?

Also with the plasticity and elasticity, you have to also realise that even though “when you use up all elasticity your done gaining”, this applies to the tunicia, you still have lig gains.

But do you know of any way to tell when elasticity is gone?


Current - NBPEL 6.9" x EG Base 6.2"

BPEL 7.4"

Goal - NBPEL 8.5" x EG 6.5"

Nice work Wad.

Wasn’t it Peforeal that primarily used pumping for his gains using predominantly low pressures over very long periods.

I would surmise then if you enter your tube erect every time and have an appropriately tight seal at the base to reduce as much as possible expansion from lymph fluids then you can exert a greater force on the tunica and ligaments to achieve deformation. This may include 2 plus hours in the tube every day and suplementation with Potoba to speed things up.


Later F. ___________________________________ "My two cents worth, may only be worth 2 cents!"

Excellent reading, and it makes perfect sense. So simply speaking, if my FL is 3” and my EL is 7”, it means that in the long term I have greater potential for gains, but I won’t be a fast grower? And perhaps greater effort is required to achieve those gains?

Well thought out, and pretty convincing.

This reminded me of a guy I knew in college who was in a bad car accident, was in a coma for a few weeks, and woke up with a bigger dick. Blood had pooled in his groin and swelled his penis up, and it never returned to it’s origional size. Except for the shock of having a dark blue penis(which went away), there were no negative effects.

He gained only girth, however.

Maldo

Ok… well from above I don’t know if I’m super elastic or super inelastic.

I do like the most extreme exercises and I get shit expansion. For example, last night I did some clamping. I got as hard as I could and clamped once at the base… then I slowly clamped down right beside the first clamp with a second clamp… THEN I did a freeking double clamped horse. After all of this and a few other things that I did I measured like an hour later and I have about 1/8 inch expansion… it’s frustrating as hell, lol.

Originally Posted by Maldonaldo
Well thought out, and pretty convincing.

This reminded me of a guy I knew in college who was in a bad car accident, was in a coma for a few weeks, and woke up with a bigger dick. Blood had pooled in his groin and swelled his penis up, and it never returned to it’s origional size. Except for the shock of having a dark blue penis(which went away), there were no negative effects.

He gained only girth, however.

Maldo

Talk about a pleasant surprise. Do you know if he gained drastically in girth?

Originally Posted by wadzilla
EZ,
I think the very phrase “loss of elasticity” can be confusing in that it sounds almost like the depletion of a biological substance, and not merely the descriptive term for a physical state/condition, that it is.

Elasticity is more or less the property of a tissue/material to be stretched (by traction/force) beyond it’s “normal” size, then return to normal after the tension has been released. Call it “flexibility,” perhaps.

The ability to “return to normal” can be degraded by repeated tensions, especially vigorous traction, or a duration of time “under load.” When these forces are present, there is obviously real “change” in the tissue/material that is being subjected to those forces (known as “plastic deformation”). As in the case of a rubber band or a balloon or a cable, when the tension becomes too acute, failure/rupture results.

But under chronic tension, the material will start to become “overstretched” (deformed), in that it doesn’t revert exactly to it’s previous state. The material will actually begin to become longer than it was originally (even when zero tension is being applied). However, a material’s ability to “extend” is limited, and it varies greatly from one material to another (obviously, rubber is far more elastic than wood).

Regarding PE, the elasticity of the penis can be vividly seen during both erection and even in a simple flaccid stretch. By chronic application of tractile forces (“PE”), the penis starts to become “overstretched.” As this process advances, we enter the realm of “plastic deformation.”

As we’re “overstretching” the penis (over time, of course), we’re replacing some of the elastic properties with plastic properties (i.e., losing elasticity - which has a causal connection with gains).

The fact that 2 guys could both possess the exact same ELs, but the 1 guy has double the flaccid of the other guy is a stark, vivid illustration of how much penile elasticity can vary between guys.

The grower has more elasticity to “spend,” whereas the show-er, with less elasticity to battle, will probably achieve gains easier & quicker than the grower. However, the grower probably has greater potential for bigger gains because of his greater level of elasticity to work with. On the down side, the more elastic penis of the grower tends to keep “snapping back to normal” - making plastic deformation tougher to achieve.

I don’t believe that elasticity can be “restored.” In the case of the guy with megalophallus - or the guy who gains then loses 300 lbs, and has huge aprons of skin dangling around him (which can only be surgically removed) - plastic deformation is not a temporary state, like hypertrophy.

But even IF we could “restore” elasticity, what would happen? The penis would probably “snap back to normal” (i.e., you’d lose your gains). So, plastic deformation - for us - is not a “bad” thing. It is, in fact, what we strive for. The problem is, of course, that we have only so much elasticity to use up…and that’s that.

To continue hanging, for example, after you’ve exhausted all elasticity would probably result in a long, useless, damaged “pisspipe” (but that would take so many years of insane tenacity).

So if this is true, why do I tout “Deconditioning Breaks”?
Because, these breaks help prepare the penis for another round of growth - only when you have NOT used up all of your elasticity. Remember, gains don’t progress steadily until some point where everything slams to a halt. As you use up elasticity, further deformation becomes more difficult. These breaks don’t actually “add” elasticity, they just loosen up the tissues enough for you to “go another inning.” But, breaks or no breaks, 100% is just that….100%.

That is each guy’s PE “limits.”

* - P.S., I've come to believe that this is a far more accurate model of how PE “works” than the bodybuilding-type model that I'd subscribed to as a newbie. Even though my penis is double the volumetric size that it used to be, I didn't really “build” it, I deformed it…through the repeated application of both externally- and internally-invoked tractile forces.

Wad, I understand all that, and agree 110% the problem I have is with megalophallus itself.

It seems to occur only in those with sickle cell anemia.

One thing we do not know, at least I have not been able to find, is during the actual priapism itself of those diagnosed with megalophallus, is the penis engorged to that size???
In other words is the episode of priapism in these people unusual in that during it, they are 2 to 3 times their normal size the entire time? I would think they would have to be.
I would also think it pretty painful depending on exactly what amount of an increase in size we are talking about.
Still, what would cause a grown man’s penis to go twice it’s size or better, we can’t mimic that with any PE.
So, what the hell caused that?

This would be a vastly different form of priapism, than what we all know. For usually, it would be a normal sized erection.

Since we know priapism itself doesn’t cause this, it has to do with the other factors of the disease.
Misshapen red blood cells, inability to oxygenate, these most likely play a role, just how though, baffles me, for they shouldn’t.

Possible clotting of the blood cells, that rings a bell of truth to me, these cells don’t flow as easily through the blood vessels due to their shape, they get caught up, clogging up, more blood keeps coming in, and more…and more, maybe that’s it, but who can be sure.

Mimicking this sounds alot like clamping, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to clamp for four hours, even then, this strange form of RBC clotting would not be taking place, if that’s even a factor.

The other thing we don’t know, the exact size of these guys before they got megalophallus, are we talking going from 6.5” girth to 7.5” girth? or was it much more dramatic say 5” to 7.5”

This would be very helpful to know.

I tend to think it would be less dramatic, only because I don’t see evidence of sudden skin stretching such as stretch marks, but then again, they are not so easy to see on a flaccid.

Do note though, the entire tunica was not affected, but roughly 3/4 of it…wonder why?
Does this happen in every case?

I think as you’ve stated we can get there all the same, much more time involved than a mere four hours, but this knowledge helps to focus on what counts.

Originally Posted by paul.
Great post, but does this mean that long term PE can result in priapism and megalophallus?

No, I don’t think so. Priapism, as I understand it, is mostly caused by sickle-cell disease which is a genetic disorder. I would worry too much about it. As far as I know, the difference between a flaccid and erected penis has to do with smooth muscle relaxation and not so much with the elasticity of the tunica. So even if you do lessen the elasticity of the tunica and become a shower you would not go around being erect all the time. :)

This is an interesting find wadzilla.

So according to this theory the tunica is not actually enlarged (in terms of mass) but rather stretched out to it’s full potential?
Do you believe the tunica’s mass can be increased through PE?

Keep in mind that there are two types of priapism: high flow and low flow.

Low flow is the more common type, and the type that is associated with sickle cell disease.

High flow is less common, and is most commonly associated with injuries to the perineum. An artery supplying blood to the penis experiences a rupture, resulting in constant high blood flow to the penis. High flow priapism is generally not damaging, and is generally not painful.

I did see one interesting case history relating to high flow priapism. In that case, a young man had had a five year (!) high flow priapism. (There was no explanation of why it had taken anyone five years to get to the doctor on this.) According to the article, in this patient, “after 5 years of high flow priapism, penile measurements of the semi-erect penis were 14.5 cm length, 13 cm base circumference and 15.5 cm mid-shaft circumference. This is compared with fully erect penile mean length reported in normal 18-19 years olds of 14.48 cm.9 The mean erect base shaft circumference, in adult Caucasians reported by Da Ros et al, is 11.92 cm.” Further, “The patient reported increased penile size during stimulation, though during a pharmacological cavernosogram using 40 mg papaverine there was only slight increase in the penile size.”

What does all this mean? I suggest that this supports Wadzilla’s theory. It means that increased size from priapism is not a result of a low oxygen state, as some clampers have hypothesized, but rather, a result of stretching the tunica.


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.

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