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Loading, lengthening, healing.

Originally Posted by skeebo

Does that over-training result in decreased EQ? And if it does, do the weeks you take off return your EQ back to normal?

Yes and yes.


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

Thanks for the response. I figured that would be the best course of action for me as well.


Jan. '08:.............................................. ..............................................Apri l '13:.........Goal:

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6.5 BP................................................ ...............................................8.2 5 BP.......... 8.5 BP

Originally Posted by marinera
temporary residual lengthening (even lasting for many weeks) is produced with low/loads-long time stretching;

I use a vac hanger for 4 hours straight with 4-5 lbs. The things is my penis is about 1 cm longer when in erect state for about 30-60 min after I take the hanger off. Could this be an example of temporary residual lengthening(although it last only for about 1 hour, not weeks,maybe because of the lower weight ) ?


Starting stats: 6.4" / 5.6" Current Stats: 7.4" / 5.8" Short term goal: 7" / 6" Long term goal: 8" / 6.5"

Originally Posted by marinera
If you have a lot of time, go for it. I think you should start with about 1 lbs. Depending on the kind of hanger you are going to use, it will require some hours to learn how to properly do hanging. After this first stage, I think you can raise the weigth adding very very little when you think you need it.

I have to say that in my personal views hanging with so little weight is not a good choice when you can use an extender or similar devices. You can have a walk or go to see a movie wearing an extender or an Ads, (first times you’ll not have the balls, but after a while you’ll be able), not the same if you do have an hanger with weigths attached to your penis.

Also, you can easily stretch in any direction with an extender, where if you are hanging you do need a pulley.

I would switch to weights whan I have no gains anymore with low tensions.

Anyway, it will not make that much difference in terms of gains, so if you like hanging many hours with light weights go for that.

Marinera, could it be that , hanging with little weight has some advantages over using an extender, based on the fact that the load is constant when hanging and relaxation doesn’t occur as opposed to an extender ?


Starting stats: 6.4" / 5.6" Current Stats: 7.4" / 5.8" Short term goal: 7" / 6" Long term goal: 8" / 6.5"

Originally Posted by alin
I use a vac hanger for 4 hours straight with 4-5 lbs. The things is my penis is about 1 cm longer when in erect state for about 30-60 min after I take the hanger off. Could this be an example of temporary residual lengthening(although it last only for about 1 hour, not weeks,maybe because of the lower weight ) ?


Yes it is. How much the temporary elongation will last is influenced by a numbero of things, your EQ just to say one.

4 hours without rest?

Originally Posted by alin
Marinera, could it be that , hanging with little weight has some advantages over using an extender, based on the fact that the load is constant when hanging and relaxation doesn’t occur as opposed to an extender ?


I think relaxation is a good thing, actually. It should means that fibers get uncrimped, so align in the axial direction. If this doesn’t happens, there is more chance to break connective tissue which will be repaired in a ‘chaotic’ way, if it’s clear what I mean.

I’d like to hear Figo’ opinion on this, too.

Agreed.

Worth remembering though that the fibres will also adapt to load in an axial direction in order to resist it, so add some jelqing in there too between hanging sets to offset that, and to get some good oxygen and nutrient laden blood into the tissues.


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

Originally Posted by marinera
Yes it is. How much the temporary elongation will last is influenced by a numbero of things, your EQ just to say one.

4 hours without rest?

Yes, 4 hours without rest, although I wouldn’t advise someone new to vac hanging to do this, as I had some injuries from jumping too quickly in time/weight, so for this time I worked up slowly to this duration.


Starting stats: 6.4" / 5.6" Current Stats: 7.4" / 5.8" Short term goal: 7" / 6" Long term goal: 8" / 6.5"

Originally Posted by firegoat

I have changed the bold emphases, but this sub-failure model research fits very neatly with my model of how growth occurs, as linked in post 15 of this thread. More thoughts on how Growth occurs

I much prefer the theory of fibroblastically mediated type I collagen fibrillogenesis tissue remodelling, without inflammation and scar tissue, over the theory of complete tissue rupture/failure, with inflammation, followed by type III collagen deposited to form scar tissue in the injury gap.

Also the statement “following subfailure tissue damage, collagen I and III expression was suppressed after 1 day, but by day 7 expression of both genes was significantly increased over controls, with collagen I expression significantly larger than type III expression. Concurrent with increased collagen expression were significantly increased expression of the collagen fibrillogenesis” also serves to illustrate why recovery time is needed between PE sessions.

Full pdf article the above quotes were taken from can be found here (originally quoted from by marinera, and worth a read): http://144.92.48.140/files/loci/Pro…trinsic2005.pdf

I found very interesting that the article suggests in more than one point that when the healing is complete, the tissue could be both longer and stronger than before:

“An in vivo study of rat ligament healing
showed a significant increase in tissue ultimate stress (to
80% of control) 2 weeks after a subfailure injury; yet there
was no significant improvement in the tissue laxity over 2
weeks (Provenzano et al., 2002a).

…………….

For instance, examination of
collagen microstructure with scanning electron microscopy
after subfailure damage revealed ruptured collagen fibers
and fibrils, and fiber and fibril dretractionT appeared to have
taken place (Fig. 8). If proteinases are to clear debris and
remove damaged tissue after injury, it is unlikely that the
initial gap between ruptured fibers and/or fibrils would, at
that point, decrease. As such, if the tissue gap is present
when new tissue is dfilled inT, the repaired fiber or fibril
would be longer than its pre-injury length and as such more
lax. (pag. 7)…

The
apparent harmonization of these events provides compelling
evidence that between 3 and 7 days, or at 7 days, the
tissue is undergoing a dramatic remodeling response. In
addition, the strong increase in type I collagen expression,
which is significantly greater than type III expression,
supports the concept of remodeling without significant scar
deposition. These findings distinguish this injury from
pathologies such as tendonitis where inflammation is
known to play a role. Furthermore, this model raises the
likely possibility that fibroblasts within additional tissues
in the body respond in a similar fashion and deposit type I
collagen to repair moderately (i.e. non-clotting and nonscarring)
damaged tissue instead of depositing a type III
fibrotic matrix. (pag 9)”

Now it would be very, very interesting to know what happens after a grade I damage, to understand if, theoretically, would be more efficient, to achieve tissue lenghtening, to cause frequent but very light damage (grade I) or mild damage (grad II) and let it heal.

I don’t know why I have been out of the loop when it comes to being notified of additions to subscribed threads but The above is exactly what my experience has provided me. If you note some of my past postings (not necessarily in this thread) The three phases of healing are exactly what we need to concentrate on and pay attention to because they are the forces that either make or break gains.

This is exactly the reason timing is so very critical concerning the application of various tools at our disposal.

The above is just further verification of the necessity of an ADS between heavy hanging sessions.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

It’s worth reading the whole article. It shows that the type of collagen expression we are after (type 1) is suppressed for at least the first day, and only begins after the 3rd day of healing, increasing to peak on the 7th day. Continued loading during the healing phase will continue the suppression of type 1 collagen expression.

However, although an ADS will most likely cause suppression of the type of collagen we wish to increase, there is an argument that cyclical loading increases the UTS (Ultimate Tensile Strength) by a greater degree than continuous loading. However, even wearing an ADS cannot be considered continuous loading as it cannot be used 24 hours a day.

The most recent investigations into the mechanical properties of tissues under load (stretch/strain/time) are now being conducted on cell-populated biopolymer gels. Some of it fascinating.

Edit: here’s some more interesting reading, pertaining to the above. It’s a little heavy if you don’t have to work with this stuff on a daily basis, but it shows the direction research is taking: http://users.wpi.edu/~kbilliar/documents/Balestrini%20and%20Billiar%20-%20Magnitude%20and%20Duration%20of%20Stretch%20Mod ulate%20Fibroblast%20Remodeling%20-%20JBME%202009.pdf

Originally Posted by firegoat
…..
The most recent investigations into the mechanical properties of tissues under load (stretch/strain/time) are now being conducted on cell-populated biopolymer gels. Some of it fascinating.

Edit: here’s some more interesting reading, pertaining to the above. It’s a little heavy if you don’t have to work with this stuff on a daily basis, but it shows the direction research is taking: http://users.wpi.edu/~kbilliar/documents/Balestrini%20and%20Billiar%20-%20Magnitude%20and%20Duration%20of%20Stretch%20Mod ulate%20Fibroblast%20Remodeling%20-%20JBME%202009.pdf


From the above, cell number increased only in the sample loaded for 6h/day. If we are speaking of healty tissue, a greater number of cells - although at cost of an higher UTS - would be a good thing, I suppose? (There is more tissue to stretch, just give me enough time.) On the other hand, the sample stretched 24/24 became stronger as well. (In this case the stretch was applied in both directions, I seem to remember from another experiment that when stretch was only axially directed results were different, though.)

If what we are reading in those studies could be transferred in PE, it would appear to me that it confirms that a) changing parameters of stressors (time under tension, intensity, rest) could be benefecial, soliciting different mechanisms of growth b) a too prolonged stress (24/24), with no rest, would be pointless.


Last edited by marinera : 12-23-2011 at .

Continuous stress is a bit like picking at a scab. If you keep picking, the tissue does not change at all.

The one thing that all the various research articles on the response to loading point to, is that the tissue will adapt (become more resistant to the stressor). And it will do it fairly quickly. So after a few weeks, doing the same exercises is not going to create further adaptation, as the tissue has already adapted to that level of stress. Either the time or load must be increased as the resistance of the tissues increases.

But it’s also fairly clear that an unstressed tissue loses its strength after a few weeks. So as long as we are getting daily strong erections and maybe doing some light piss-pulls (not enough to build linear resistance), we should not loose any size during a decon break, but we will restore the tissues to a state where they will again be able to adapt to the normal forces and times used in PE.

Albert Einstein defined ‘insanity’ as “..repeating the same thing again and again and expecting different results each time.” Maybe he had a point.


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

My head hurts reading this !

Can someone put in laymans terms the implications of this RE an effective workout/rest routine ?

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