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Ligament Healing And PE

Every thing I have read is 8 to 10 lbs for your heavy hang and then light 1 .5 to 2 lbs during the day between your 2 hang sessions.
The other thing is you must do at least 10 to 14 hrs of hang per week for it to work for you at least 1.5 hrs per day. Do you guys agree with this or do you think it’s all relative for each person. I called the guys at the grip and they said 8 lbs to cause the micro tearing in the morning and at night.

This is more of a question to see if you agree with this and not telling him what to do.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Originally Posted by Monty530
I love Wantsmore’s stretches!
The problem with them for me is they are too effective. I found that they tended to build girth rather quickly and frankly I have had enough girth for quite a while now so I avoid girth exercises. If a guy wants to build girth at the same time he’s trying to build length I think they are wonderful exercises. I tend to believe after saying this that the girth build up might get out of control and hamper length gains. A guy needs to be aware of this and watch closely his progress on both fronts (girth and length). Those exercises are some of the most intense that I have ever ran into. I’ve got to hand it to Wantsmore they really work.

Where can I find Wantsmore’s stretches? Thanks.

Thank you for your replies! Just to clarify a little, I do manual stretching about 15 to 20 minutes a day. I tug pretty hard and hold for 1 to 2 minutes. And what I mean when I say that I tug pretty hard is I probably put a good 30 to 40 pounds of weight on it. So the ADS is not close to the amount of pressure that I use while stretching. Am I pulling too hard maybe? Do I need to take the less is more approach? Or, should I increase my stretch time? Maybe do it 2 or 3 times a day? Maybe with less intensity? Thanks again for your input! It is very appreciated!

The problem with applying force to the penis is that it responds. Well, its only a problem if you are getting the wrong response. If you use too much force, you will rapidly skip right past a good response and go to an unwanted response of dramatic tissue toughening. The tougher the tissue the longer decon will be needed to be able to make gains again. I believe you can get to the point where its virtually permanent.

I have always pointed people interested in hanging to Monty, because Monty has always used the most conservative force that will get the job done. I think that is one of the keys to his success. For a long time he was in the 8-10 lb range, and when he upped it, it was a bit at a time.

Being conservative means you get the most bang for your buck before you start hitting the wall of tissue toughening.

In PE, more is not better…at least not more force, maybe more time (at least in hanging).

I agree with sparkyx.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

I completely agree with the ADS/hangers camp, and I’m a manual stretch guy. I just haven’t ordered my ADS yet. Long term tension will allow you to heal in that extended state. Yes, I’ve made gains with my manual stretches, but think of how much better they would be with constant pressure. I think manual stretching or hanging, followed by hours in an ADS would yield the optimum ligament gains. This is why my next step is an ADS, to keep that stretch going while my body heals after manual stretching.

Good thread, yay.


Jelq, ADS, repeat.

Final Goal: 8EL x 6.2

Must...think...long...term.

Originally Posted by dlm4
Thank you for your replies! Just to clarify a little, I do manual stretching about 15 to 20 minutes a day. I tug pretty hard and hold for 1 to 2 minutes. And what I mean when I say that I tug pretty hard is I probably put a good 30 to 40 pounds of weight on it. So the ADS is not close to the amount of pressure that I use while stretching. Am I pulling too hard maybe? Do I need to take the less is more approach? Or, should I increase my stretch time? Maybe do it 2 or 3 times a day? Maybe with less intensity? Thanks again for your input! It is very appreciated!


I would doubt you can get 30 or 40 lbs of stress with your hand and arm especially for 1 to 2 minutes that would make up 15 to 20 minutes a day. I would have to see some empirical evidence of that.

Anyway I would do a decon and then start with hanging in some way that is measurable. The Hand is fine but doesn’t give you any information from day to day. What you want is some way to collect data so you know if your progressing and if not what to change and how much.

Right now you don’t know what is the wrong portion of your routine. All you know for sure is that your using 5 lbs on your ADS but don’t have any idea what relationship it is to your other exercises. If your ADS was one or two lbs you would probably be safe but 5 lbs is a significant weight and when used all day can be and might be traumatizing rather then therapeutic. There are many relative things that need to be defined here before you can really know what to change.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by Monty:
My point in telling you this is to point out how tendons are very similar in tissue characteristics to the ligaments we work on here. When we stretch our ligaments and we get some swelling from the damage we’ve created we are in effect doing the same thing was having corrective surgery. The more important point here is that during the healing cycle is when we want to remain stretched. It is when the body is in the first stage of healing when it brings in enzymes and proteins to accomplish clean out of the damaged tissues but also extra fluids to facilitate the process, hence swelling. If we apply stress to that ligament to keep it elongated during that phase of the healing cycle then we enable the elongation of that ligament by disallowing it from the last and final stage of healing which returns the ligament to it’s natural original length. The last stage is where we need to concentrate on retaining the length we’ve created.

As a continuation of my thread from yesterday, I’m ressurecting an old thread in order to get some more discussion.

I am now realizing some solid length gains from manual stretching. I have been at PE for just under two months, and as of today, I have gained nearly .25 inches in length. I am only manually stretching. When I am stretching I can feel that I am at the max point. ( I am being very careful, because, sometimes, I can feel a slight, sharp pain at the base, and I immediately back off) But, when I continue stretching, there is no pain as long as I don’t stretch too hard. (the rest of the day, I have a dull ache, but no negative PI’s)

So, it feels like I am in this spot where my ligs are stretching, and wanting to heal. I am torn as to whether I continue light piss pulls and stretching throughout the week to cement these gains in the last stage of healing as mentioned above. I took a day, (almost) off yesterday, after 3 days in a row, and just did a few very very light piss pulls. Has anyone had a similar manual stretching experience?

I am really enjoying the entire PE experience right now. I’m relaxing and not trying too hard. I would like to see how big length gainers have dealt with what I have explained, above. (.5” or more in length gain?)


Paraphrased: It is not the critic who counts: The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

Now is when you need to pay attention to your healing cycles. If you allow to much time to elapse between stress sessions you might find a toughening of the tissues. To prevent this is what an ADS is all about.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by Monty:
Now is when you need to pay attention to your healing cycles. If you allow to much time to elapse between stress sessions you might find a toughening of the tissues. To prevent this is what an ADS is all about.

So, it sounds like I need to continue stretching through this? I have seen bigger gains in the last few weeks since I have felt the “pull” and ache to follow.


Paraphrased: It is not the critic who counts: The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

So lets say just for the sake of argument that your healing cycle is (for the deposit of collagen)48 hours. If you allow that amount of time to pass with no stress applied to your member, that deposit of collagen will be the binding matrix that will give strength to that portion of the tissues that you previously damaged. So what your left with is stronger tissue then you had before and now greater stress is needed to cause damage again, but now you’ve created more mass (from the addition of new tissue) which means that your going to be dealing with a demand for more energy to accomplish what you did before when the tissues were normal. In effect your going backwards. The only way to return to the condition you had before will be an extended deconditioning period of usually no less the 3 months of no hands on at all. At least that’s what the consensus here at thunders and my own experience has been.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by Monty:
So lets say just for the sake of argument that your healing cycle is (for the deposit of collagen)48 hours. If you allow that amount of time to pass with no stress applied to your member, that deposit of collagen will be the binding matrix that will give strength to that portion of the tissues that you previously damaged. So what your left with is stronger tissue then you had before and now greater stress is needed to cause damage again, but now you’ve created more mass (from the addition of new tissue) which means that your going to be dealing with a demand for more energy to accomplish what you did before when the tissues were normal. In effect your going backwards. The only way to return to the condition you had before will be an extended deconditioning period of usually no less the 3 months of no hands on at all. At least that’s what the consensus here at thunders and my own experience has been.

Well holy shit, I am going to be aching all the time, at the base of my unit then. I actually, like the way you have articulated this. I will keep easy pressure on my dick on off days, to keep the gains achieved during my days with a routine involved.

Thanks, Monty. :)


Paraphrased: It is not the critic who counts: The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

Originally Posted by Monty:
So lets say just for the sake of argument that your healing cycle is (for the deposit of collagen)48 hours. If you allow that amount of time to pass with no stress applied to your member, that deposit of collagen will be the binding matrix that will give strength to that portion of the tissues that you previously damaged. So what your left with is stronger tissue then you had before and now greater stress is needed to cause damage again, but now you’ve created more mass (from the addition of new tissue) which means that your going to be dealing with a demand for more energy to accomplish what you did before when the tissues were normal. In effect your going backwards. The only way to return to the condition you had before will be an extended deconditioning period of usually no less the 3 months of no hands on at all. At least that’s what the consensus here at thunders and my own experience has been.

So, Monty, I am assuming that you should stretch daily at least a little? Once a person reaches his goal length, he could stop, and the gains cemented with the healing process? I’m curious to get your opinion on both questions. (daily stretching and cementing)

Thanks


Paraphrased: It is not the critic who counts: The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

Oh yes, I think daily stretching is essential. There is a problem though with just doing some stretching and doing enough to keep the progress you’ve made from the past. Apply a smaller amount of stress then your normal workout and here again it would allow the collagen to solidify and create toughening. The more consistency you can apply to your PE routine the better. If you need to back off for a day or two then be sure to keep up enough stress often enough to keep the tissues disrupted.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by Monty:
Oh yes, I think daily stretching is essential. There is a problem though with just doing some stretching and doing enough to keep the progress you’ve made from the past. Apply a smaller amount of stress then your normal workout and here again it would allow the collagen to solidify and create toughening. The more consistency you can apply to your PE routine the better. If you need to back off for a day or two then be sure to keep up enough stress often enough to keep the tissues disrupted.

Shit,

Based on your length gains, I will follow instructions. If I gain what you did, I would be at 9.25”. What about cementing these length gains? At some point, all of the tearing and re-healing will toughen the ligaments at the end length, right?


Paraphrased: It is not the critic who counts: The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

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