Length: Optimal Stimuli for Growth
First: I hope that we can approach this discussion with the right attitude. We are all trying to find the optimal way to lengthen our penises, we all have the same goal - marrying a certain opinion is useless.
I am getting real tired of this shit gentlemen. Why does every rebuttal have to have a personal edge on it? You roosters trying to impress the other roosters or an unseen hen?
This is Thunder’s lovely quote from the “Loading, lengthening, healing” thread of marinera.
Purpose: the purpose of this thread is to have a general discussion about the methods to stimulate length growth. The issue of recovery has been dealt with exhaustively on marinera’s thread, so I am not sure how much benefit we can derive from repeating it (it seems to be a dead end). There are a lot of topics to discuss. I originally began writing to marinera through PM’s, but he suggested that I start a dedicated thread (instead of discussing this on my log or through PM’s).
For right now, my main confusion is:
1. Anatomy: Ligament gains? How does this happen, and how do we ideally cause it?
2. Theory vs. empirical evidence: these seem to severely contradict each other.
Originally Posted by LongVehicle1. Bib provides three “tests” for PE’ers to perform to discover how much a potential for “lig gains” they have. Specifically, he seems to believe that the higher the exit point of the base of the penis on the pelvic bone, the more the opportunity lengthening the ligaments would provide to gain length from moving this andexit point lower and outwards on the pelvic bone. This seems to anatomically make sense. What do you think?
2. Monty has, for a very long time, preached a belief that tissue fatigue must be maintained to allow lengthening to occur. Clearly, this was the main refutation of your thread. With this said, can you provide a synopsis your view of the optimal method for lengthening? Would using an ADS with weights (that may not only maintain an elongated tunica, but also ligaments) not provide a benefit on its own (low weight for many hours)? Clearly, the central principle is illogical (healing is negative, don’t let it heal, yet you must keep it stretched over time and allow it to heal in an extended state - this is self-contradictory), but what is the practical take away here?
3. When you mention “toughening” of penile fibres in your thread, what exactly does that mean? I read Firegoat’s post as well, but I am not sure that I have enough familiarity with the different tissue. Is the tissue composition changing, or only the quantity? Is the type of tissue changing, or is it a density issue?
—————-> note: would tissue “toughening” not mean gains of girth? Unless the composition of the tissue is changing, I cannot see how this would not cause girth gains. In fact, it seems to me that using heavy weights may be an ideal method for gaining girth, unless the composition of the tissue is changing, not its quantity/density.
——————————-> note: apparently tissue “toughening” (this seems that a fairly inaccurate term, but it seems to be prolifically used in the literature) is responsible for the “conditioning” part of gains, which almost all length PE’ers believe in. This is our hypothesis then, that developing greater tissue “toughening” is what causes gains to be “solidified”? Is this not extremely vague? It seems like an unsatisfactory hypothesis. Is there not a more precise way to describe it?
4. What role does scar tissue play?
5. It seems to me that the most critical aspect in getting ligament gains is to stretch (or hang, or swing) at a diverse set of angles (to the extent that the stretch is actually felt). I disagree with Bib’s obsession with the BTC (straight down while sitting with a horizontal pelvis) angle - he seems to use it and recommend it due to its stretching of the suspensory ligament, however, the “inner penis” is not literally an inner penis that can just come out. If one pays attention to the anatomy, the CS does indeed continue down, but the CC actually splits to the sides. What do you think of this anatomical issue?
6. What is penile tissue composed of, exactly? I cannot seem to find an answer on this. What kind of collagen is the tunica, ligaments, etc. composed of? The reason I ask is, it seems that some drugs (remember oxandrolone?) promote certain types of collagen formation. It is critical to know what kind of collagen or fibers we are dealing with.
I am sorry for all these questions. As you can see, I am very confused. Whatever commentary you can provide would be extremely useful. I can post this on my log, or you can just post your response there, and we can continue there if you would like.
Thank you for your help. I am trying to come to an understanding of the tissue that I am dealing with. Lengthening seems to be easier to understand than girth work (medically or theoretically), so I hope that I can develop some principles that are logical and then make good use of them in the coming months.
Hi LV, I’m fine and hope you as well.
Maybe a dedicated thread would be better because chances are that others will like to tell theirs opinion about your questions, but anyway feel free to post this reply wherever you feel is better.
1. Ligs gains play a negligible role in EL gains; this is shown by lengthening surgeries through cutting of suspensory lig: the gain is about 1/4” in EL and 1/2” in FL.
2. You can have length gains basically in two ways: stretching existing tissue, so without real growth, or growing tissue in a more strictly meaning: creating new tissue. To create new tissue, you have to a) create some degree of damage; b) giving your body time to repair damages.
Now, let’s say you have done hanging with a low weigth, so causing no real damage but just deforming existing tissue. To keep the deformation going, you can use an ADS; this will also fight the elastic reaction of connective tissue.
Adversely, if you have caused some degree of damage/inflammation, keeping pulling can only cause a delayed healing, neither is required to grow longer tissue : it will grow longer anyway.
3. Connective tissue can undergo many kind of changes: hypetrophy, hyperplasia, changes in extracellular matrix, changes in composition - more collagen and/or more elastin and even water content etc.. So the main point here is: whatever you do, over time your tissue will be harder to deform or grow. If you are using low tension to just stretch the tissue, it will come a time that the tissue can’t be stretched anymore - so it’s tougher.
If you are applying enough tension to cause real growth, this grow rate will slow down, the tissue will react to the stimulus becoming stronger. So we say ‘it’s tougher’ as well.
In both cases, also, tissue tends to become stiffer, for obvious reasons.
———>In reponse to your note, even if TA was toughening via hypertrophy, this would make little difference girthwise, because TA is very thin.
——-> second note:’solidified gains’ happens when tissue is deformed for a long time with slow tensions, or when real growth happens.
4. In normal circumstances, no role. It was an old idea that when stretching our penis we are causing scar production, so we have to pull to avoid that tissue becomes not deformable. This thought was the father of the ‘keep always pulling’ theory, probably. The basic assumption is false, see here for more:
firegoat - Loading, lengthening, healing.
5. The inner penis is not going out, neither it would be a good thing if that happened. :) About ligs gains, I already said above; BTC hanging can be beneficial to lengthen the harder portion of TA, the dorsal thickening, so more productive than other angles in most of cases.
6. TA is mostly seen as very similar to tendons, so you can read about tendons to guess it’s composition. Strangely enough, it’s composition seems to be less studied than those of tendons or ligaments, probably because lengthening a tendon can be a ‘real life issue’ for most of Doctors, where ‘lengthening TA’ is ‘a mental issue’ to their eyes :) .
Things are also complicated by the fact that TA has more than one layer, and these layer could also have a different composition.
Taking substances that theoretically could have a positive impact on gains could not carry the desired effect or even be counterproductive. Somebody has tried those ways without so much luck - you can find some threads about on this forum.
For right now, I will comment on marinera’s response and then pose more questions as they come to mind. I am severely confused.