Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Last ounce of effort with pe

Thank you everybody for all the advice and concern:
Man I don’t know where to start?

Uh o.k. when I said that I jelqued night and day I didn’t mean that literally, but what I meant was I did just a bit more than what the paid websites advised. Now I am a very self-conscientous type guy, I think I would know if I was overdoing it in a certain situation.

Thanks for the idea about squeezes, I will definitely employ this and give it a shot.

I hear you, I think I too am the foreplay king, and I’ve only went down on two girls before( the others weren’t worthy) and they seemed to had lost their mind at the time:spin2:

I’m trying to keep the faith, you are right I would hit a back flip off the roof for a .5 in. gain. But tomorrow I will purchase a starter.

Walter and newbie:
Thanks so much for your advice but, I have always kind of figured if 11 lbs. 4 x 20 a day can’t make my piece longer than my hands dam sure can’t.


I have never smoked anything, but in this situation kinda wish I did so I could have hope, thinking that that might be my problem.
Yeah I’m still around her ignorant ass- but there is a reason, we have a daughter- so I’m semi-connected for another 10 years.
I get good sleep, but you might have a point regarding the whole stress thing. But I’m usually not like this even with pe, it’s just sometimes I explode due to no gains. Don’t worry about your assumptions, but here of late I was hanging exclusively, and I know I was doing that properly. I know that I know how to jelq properly, so the only exercise that is foggy to me is horses-ulis.

I too read every post I could get my hands on, especially hanging ones. So therefore I feel like I am pretty knowledgeable regarding pe, although I am sure not to the level of you. But considering I am sort of a newbie on this website, I’d say pretty knowledgeable. Also I have mentioned before that I seem to have a difficulty of keeping ligs sore all or part of the day. They are sore as hell while hanging, but 20 minutes later I fell nothing. Therefore I started what I consider working dam hard, by hanging as many times as humanly possible. This has exceeded 5 sessions before, but it seems when I hang this much I get a reoccuring thrombosed vein. So it seems I have two options, 1. no soreness or 2. bust a vein = bad luck. I am currently at 11 lbs. and feel I can go no higher at the moment.

I don’t maintain a really balanced diet, but I take vitamins to make up for what I miss. But I don’t overdo it with vita-c, like bib suggested. I am in good shape, and exercise regularly.

thanks for your input also.

I hope I did not answer anyone in a snappy way or offend anyone, I appreciate everyones opinion whether you think I need to rest or work more.


Man i do feel your pain. I feel it everytime i look at my unit. I too, sometimes find it hard to believe and even getting pissed off when i read some newbie gaining .5 in a month. Truth of the matter is that for some it comes easy, for others like you and me, we have to work hard for it. Like when i was into weight lifting i couldn’t for the life of me gain weight. i took all kinds of supplements from Joe Wieder to cybergenics and i tried all kinds of routines from splits to the Mike Mentzer(rip) way. i finally found my niche and was able to gain weight and get bigger. Same thing here with pe. i started at 5x5 with a Dr. Kaplan pump i had for about 4 years. somewhere in those 4 years i gained a half inch in each deminsion so when i started jelqing and manual stretching i was 5.5x5.5 (nbp length i didn’t know about bp then). i am still searching for my niche in length but i seem to have found it for my girth. jelqing 80%+ and ulis#3 and pan squeezes have worked wonders for my girth as i am now between 6.25 and 6.5 (have yet to cement the 6.5 yet). i have stop working on girth to hang to get to my length goals. i have had my bib starter now for about 2 months. my first month i spent getting used to the thing and wrapping. i don’t know about any erect length gains yet but my stretched length has risen to 7”. by the way are you tracking your stretched length? i wish i could tell you something motivation to keep you on track but i can’t. the only thing i can tell you is to keep with it and don’t give up. get the bib starter and you will gain. peace

“As you body becomes accustomed to metabolizing protein, it cannot tell the difference between muscle tissue and the protein you are eating. So, a lot of the weight loss is not only in fat, but your body also eats away its’ own muscle tissue”

This is only true on a very low (or no) carb diet which I am not advocating. A diet with appropriate amounts of fats would also prevent this. It is the high carb diet (unbalanced and unnatural) that causes fat deposits and muscle wasting (in addition to excess gliadian reactions from wheat and a few other common grains).

Also, low carb diests actually create more muscle. High carb diets waste it away.

This is not debatable. A simple look at the research show this to be true. I’m also not mentioning this in the context of weight gain, but stable hormone levels. There are many silly books out there that advocate protein fasts - these are very unhealthy. But the fact remains that too much carbs causes the body to release too much insulin which evenually leads to insulin resistance, fat storage and type 2 diabetes which is at an epidemic level in the US. It will soon become common knowledge as new tests are completed and the food pyramid will be revised.

Resting the dick works. Its worked for me and many others. It is often many people will rest out of frustartion and find their dick is bigger after the rest.

It is the “after the rest” that is important which disproves the plateau theory in that sense that you are using it - if it were plateau, the gains would happen later, not after a rest. Plateaus can and do happen. In which case you can up the workout or rest longer. But if the dick is bigger after a rest - healing and growth occured. Healing and growth that could have occured much earlier.

It is not exercising like weight lifting, but pe (and the penis) does involve muscles and tissues and ligaments like weight training.

“Thanks so much for your advice but, I have always kind of figured if 11 lbs. 4 x 20 a day can’t make my piece longer than my hands dam sure can’t. “

It is not the amount of weight or the amount of heroism or effort that gets the job done, but whether or not there is sufficient time for the penis to recover from the trauma you submit it to.

Its your “always kind of figuring” with regards to this is why you are wasting time with your pe. Figure a different way and maybe you will have different results. IMO, its rest time that allows growth and more growth to be built upon.

Use the bib hanger - do what bib did - hang all day.

But I bet if you did much less that he did (and what others do here) you will grow much faster tham him and others here.

I think even bib admitted one time that his progress would have been much faster if he had hung less.

I think he’s right.

Personally, I’ve already gained far more in the short time I’ve been doing this than all the 2 year guys here with their miniscule 1 inch or less gains.

I did it by being patient and resting regularly. I don’t even measure any more. Its just freaking huge.

I try not to get into these debates because it is really useless. As anyone can plainly see, the optimum routine is different for everyone.

There are plenty of guys who have gained with little work and a lot of rest. There are plenty of guys who have gained with a lot of work and little rest. There are plenty of guys who have NOT gained with a little work and a lot of rest. And plenty of guys who have NOT gained with a lot of work and littel rest.

IN GENERAL, the guys who have worked longer with less rest have made the most gains in the shortest amount of time. No question. But this is not the rule for everyone. Beats me why.

>I think even bib admitted one time that his progress would have been much faster if he had hung less<

No. I said that I think I could have gained the same with less work, probably 25% less. Maybe not as fast, but probably so. The amount of hanging that I put in was over the top.

The one thing about these forums that always cracks me up is the guys who absolutely, without doubt have all the answers. If something works for them, then they think it must be gospel, the only way to PE. Well, after reading several years worth of posts, and viewing thousands of guys with gains, and some without gains, I can tell you that nobody has the answer for every guy.


Not all the answers, just maybe some for those who are doing something that is definitely not working for them.

carbs, muscle, etc

Just the US consumes a high carbohydrate diet? What about most of Asia- indeed, most of the worlds population eats a high carbohydrate diet. The hormone theory is debatable in that the Asian diet does not show an increase in diabetes. The current thought is overconsumption of calories- and thus obesity, is responsible for the rise in hypoglycemia- or 2/3 of the worlds’ population would be seeing this trend.

I have been teaching nutritional classes for over 10 years, and I have yet to see any valid, repeatable research using a respectable number of subjects that shows a high protein, high fat diet causes muscle gain rather than muscle wasting. Muscle wasting is the reality of that type of diet- that is what the research bears out. I have never seen any study published in a respectable journal that demonstrates a high carbohydrate diet leads to muscle wasting. Perhaps you can provide some links to those studies.

The penis and surrounding tissues have just 3 muscles- and they are under the penis. The bulbospongiosus, ishiocavernosa, and transverse perineal m. The bulbospongiosus is generally responsible for emptying the urethra after the bladder empties- the final squirts of urine one pushes out. The ischiocavernosa is responsible for assisting with erections, and the perineum basically connects the penis to the anus. This is why your penis rises when you do PC exercises. The only other muscles in the area are the cremaster m. and dartos m.- which are scrotal muscles.

Other than the first 3 muscles mentioned above- there are no others associated with the penis other than a little bit of smooth muscle in the blood vessels of the penis. All of the rest of the tissue in this area is skin and connective tissue- ligaments, tendons and fascia. The only thing this type of tissue is capable of doing is stretching slightly, tearing at the point of overstretch, then replacing the micro-tears with scar tissue. The scar tissue can only be formed during rest, and then the overstressed area becomes stronger and more resistant to further stretching. It does not grow like skeletal muscle does. This is the anatomical and physiological basis for why rest will not aid in growth. You may solidify gains to a point doing a 1:1, 1:2, etc. type of routine, but then the scar tissue is going to become so abundant that the gains will either slow to a crawl or stop completely because there will be too much scar tissue to enable further gains.

Everyone needs to rest and allow the tissues to recover, but from a scientific standpoint it would be best to work the tissues with no rest for a long period of time, say a month- followed by a 4 day or so period of rest. In this way you only allow the scar tissue to develop once in a great while- therefore allowing one to gain for a much longer period of time before reaching a plateau. This post is getting to long to discuss what may be happening at a physiological level during a plateau, so I am going to wind this up.

Unless there is something unusual about the tissues of the pelvis in relation to the rest of the body- which is VERY doubtful- it makes no sense to treat these tissues any differently than we treat the other connective tissue of the body which has undergone trauma. All the members of this forum are free to use whatever PE techniques they want, but I would hope they would look at what is actually happening in the body and determine what will work best for them based on that information. All I can do is present the anatomy and physiology- each member has to decide how to use that information. I was going to end with just my 2 cents- but this is more like a dollar :)

"...its' natural environment is in the hole, so why don't you send him home. His bags are packed, he's got his airplane tickets- bring him to the airport...send him home."

From: 'Happy Gilmore'

The research has been done in other countries, namely Germany. The real research is beginning to be done here. Early results bare out that less carbs equals dramatic improvements in health and measurable numbers. Asia mainly eats rice - a non gluten grain and they don’t consume other carbs like we do here on the same level. Furthermore, other diseases associated with high carb diets like cancer, is well found in Asia. Furthermore, obesity and diabetes type 2 is on the rise in the world, not just in the US.

Refer to the book, Life without Bread.

There are lots of studies referenced and the mechanisms for insulin/glucagon interactions are well explained.

I say in one to two years the pyramid will be revised as studies here bare out the many disease causing propertise of too many carbs. Weight gain is just one small, although unsightly part of it.

The diet of man has always been animal protein, fat, and some small amounts of carbs up until very relatively recently.

As far as resting ever other day goes, I say if your doing the opposite of that for a long while with no results, why not try it? Continuing in a manner that consistently doesn’t work seems like insanity to me.

“Its your ‘always kind of figuring’ with regards to this is why you are wasting time with your pe. Figure a different way and maybe you will have different results.”

It’s nice to hear the voice of reason on this list. Newbie, I tried to set up a discussion on this very same issue over peforum, but it is like speaking to brick wall. Eventually, I was taken off the list because I grew so frustrated. People can’t accept the possibility that they might be wasting their time by working so hard. Experience tells me that this person will hang until his penis turns blue, regardless of what we might say.

Who knows though? he might gain. If it were me though, I’d like to know for certain that less time is ineffective before I spend days with a weight hanging off my dick.

“IN GENERAL, the guys who have worked longer with less rest have made the most gains in the shortest amount of time.”

The group of people you are talking about is a relatively small one. There are few who have worked long hours and have made significant gains in the shortest amount of time. And by significant I mean over three quarters of an inch a month.

Also, IN GENERAL, the guys who get injured have worked longer with less days off. There are more injuries reported than there are big gains reported. There are also more members experiencing plateaus than there are big gainers.

I am willing to bet that there are only two or three people on this list that have even tried a 1 on-1 off schedule. Yet, everyone seems to be firmly against the idea. I have seen no compelling argument against it.

What absolutely blows my mind is the fact that these same people will accept MagnumXL’s idea that the tunica needs time to repair, but will not experiment to find out how long this process might take. They simply assume that if they are not growing it is because they are not working hard enough.

Yeah Walter, I think its just impatience. That and people equate “hard work” with progress. I say work smarter - not harder.

If your routine doesn’t give you noticeable results in 1-3 months, than its a dumb ass routine.

Most people can’t seem to get a normal hardon when they do 5-6 days a week without resting a couple of days from what I’ve read. I went through that. When I switched to every other day, I lost this impotence and the erections were very powerful. In fact I thought I had gained right away but it turned out the daily jelking seemed to be making my unit smaller and giving me mild impotence. The day break allowed me to recover.

I think many try it for a few weeks or a month and get impatient and think it doesnt work or worse - they see a gain and decide to push it - and then of course the gains stop. So then they go all out and then gain like 1/8th inch in 8 months (bp).

Sometimes I think (I could be wrong) there is an element of competetion between people - like this is my routine - I hang 20 pounds on my dick for 3 hours a day - what do you do? Seems retarded to me. I think the guy who makes good gains and hardly relatively jelks at all is far more impressive.

But to each his own.

BTW Walter, it’s good to see someone else with the less is more approach! I know a few people who also do this and they have nothing but praise for it.

It works. You have time for other endeavors like becoming a loving warm, nonneurotic human being.

There was some post last week where the guy is like 9 inches and 5.5 girth and he thinks he needs to be thicker to satisfy his frigid girlfriend. That’s just out of reality and I think this constant peing and dick obsession - chasing gains that don’t come because of a shooting yourself in the foot approach with overtraining - just lends itself to an unhealthy preoccupation with your dick.

Just my opinion.


I will hang until my dick turns deep purple- only a fool would hang with a blue glans. 1/2 inch in 3 weeks is enough to convince me that using established methods of dealing with connective tissue trauma works. I prefer not to treat PE as mystical, it can and does have a scientific base.

Let me know in 6 months if you are still gaining, my guess is you will have accumulated so much scar tissue that gains become virtually impossible. Of course, I am only basing my guess on human anatomy and physiology- maybe the mystical side of PE will prevail in your case.

It amazes me that people continue to question Biggers’ observations. He has been around at least 6 years and has seen it all. I think his knowledge base is probably as great or greater than anyone still participating actively on these forums.

I would appreciate if you would point out the injuries with hanging and I will point out the gains. There are very few, if any, serious injuries associated with hanging. I haven’t seen any other than a bit of desensitivity from twisting in the hanger which is easily dealt with.

I don’t know of anyone that has accepted MXLs’ theory on the tunica. It is interesting and thought provoking, but until a bunch of guys have success using this method it will remain a theory. I have started to research this possibility with connective tissue, but haven’t found anything as of yet- although I still have a lot of literature reviews to go through. I am hopeful that there is information out there that supports this theory, and that it will pinpoint an amount of time for us to go by.

As far as big gainers go, how many can you list that use your method? Please provide this information so that we may review their routines- as I am happy to hang less if there is documentation to support resting instead of doing work. I guess we will use your definition of significant gains when you are compiling your list. Hope to see this info soon, as I really don’t want to hang until my dick turns blue :D

"...its' natural environment is in the hole, so why don't you send him home. His bags are packed, he's got his airplane tickets- bring him to the airport...send him home."

From: 'Happy Gilmore'

Seems to me hanging is where the problems are. Stretching ligaments so far and strongly like that can’t be good - ligaments hold structures in place - its good no where else in the body. I’d like to see the angles of erections of these big hanging pe’ers.

Some ligament strecthing must occur in lengthening - but hanging is all about ligament stretching. I’d like to see a study of dick function after doing that 10 years later.

That is all we do in PE, man- stretch connective tissue. If it is bad for us what are we doing here?

"...its' natural environment is in the hole, so why don't you send him home. His bags are packed, he's got his airplane tickets- bring him to the airport...send him home."

From: 'Happy Gilmore'

Maybe the idea here is less trauma to minimize scarring coupled with an adequate recovery time. Traumatizing your dick everyday super intensely to me seems like asking for trouble.

We are not trying to mimic motorcycle accident victims - just to provide a stimuation and irritation for growth - and then allowing adequate rest time.

Seems like the opposite of this causes scarring.


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