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Is LESS more, or is MORE more?

Originally Posted by budz

Well the first day, I did 290 jelqs and after my session I stayed really plump and felt worked but felt great! I believe this was due to the fast rep tempo as well as the low intensity of the jelqs. I did not have one red dot, which i usually get from jelqing with a firm grip and going slow. The next day I did this same routine, but i really wanted to try stretching because I wanted to follow DLD’s phase one routine. I did the stretching and felt like i pulled too hard because I got sore and some retraction. HOWEVER, on the MoS board, it seems like all the big gainers get sore, and they all just work through the soreness.

I tried this exact same thing, even the number of jelqs. I thought going fast would work. It didn’t work for me and I wasted some weeks trying to figure something out in the range of 200 plus jelqs.

Not saying that it won’t work for you, but it didn’t for me.

I have never been able to stretch as described at this site. The little fella just seems to hate it and fights back by retracting.


Sept. 4, '07: BPEL 6.875 inches, EG widest 5.25

Goal: Double digits

Originally Posted by Equine Rooster
I tried this exact same thing, even the number of jelqs. I thought going fast would work. It didn’t work for me and I wasted some weeks trying to figure something out in the range of 200 plus jelqs.

Not saying that it won’t work for you, but it didn’t for me.

I have never been able to stretch as described at this site. The little fella just seems to hate it and fights back by retracting.

The jelqing seems to be working, because my unit looks thicker now! I had morning and night woods last night! I haven’t had those in a long time!

However my unit seems to have decreased length. It looks a bit shorter, and i believe that it came from the stretching. I am going to do jelqing only for the next couple of weeks and see where that takes me. I have a feeling I will just gain mostly girth but if I do gain I will be happy. As for length, what would be a good way to gain it if stretching doesnt have a positive effect on it? Maybe some light hanging?

Originally Posted by Equine Rooster
Sparky, q4 and 66,

One way I have found to help with not over doing it is to get it where I want in terms of EQ, night wood, etc., and then leave it alone until that diminishes. I tell myself, that’s perfect, I am doing it perfectly, doing more or again will not be perfect anymore. I let the positives start to diminish, then go again. I worked so hard at finding the right routine to get it “there”, why fuck it up? I just filled the glass up completely full one drop at a time, one more drop will make it spill.


So…when your EQ hits a high, you take a couple days off until it starts to come down, then you restart PE?

Originally Posted by budz
How could so many people over there be lying about their gains from working through the soreness. By the way, the soreness is NOT pain, just wanted to clear that up. I need help dudes, I just want to freaking gain already.

WE WILL FIGURE THIS OUT! I HAVE HOPE!


Soreness is fine or maybe even DESIRABLE, as long as EQ doesn’t drop into the toilet. A little drop is ok, as long as it comes back within a day or so.

Originally Posted by budz
All i know is that today, just as an update, that I have felt “worked” all day with a slight soreness, NOT PAIN. I have been hanging MUCH fuller, and popping random woods all day however i still do feel like my cock is worked pretty well. I dont know if I should continue on with this routine and stretch tonight, or take a break. Blah


Random wood is an indication of excellent EQ. So for some guys, excellent to good EQ WITH some soreness is an indicator of being in the growth zone. I would say, stick with it for a while and see if you start to gains.

HOWEVER, soreness with shit EQ rarely results in any gains.

Originally Posted by budz
I take that back, its not hanging MUCH fuller. I dont know why I even said that. I just took a flacid stretched measurement and it was down 1/16 of an inch. And I have only popped 2 chubbies, they werent even hardons. I dont know why I said that.


Poor hardness is a good indicator of drastically DROPPING EQ…so time to back off.

You said it because of penile psychosis! :)

Another great thread with lots of good information! I’d like to share some personal observations that may be of use:

Re: Tendency to overtrain posted by sparkyx
“I have spent the last few years unable to believe that… The fact is, even after years of conditioning, about 5 minutes of jelquing or pumping is about right for me”

It’s also hard for me to believe that I’m done for the day with only a few minutes in the shower; anything more and I turtle right up…

“On the other hand, you constantly read guys who finally get serious and do a couple hours a day of PE and grow like crazy! I hate reading these cases, because it always inspires me to try it “one more time”, as if it will have a different outcome this time.”

Yes, but most of us don’t have time to be pulling on our peckers all day; this is where our “sensitive dicks” (an oxymoron?) are an advantage. I think these guys conjure up some sort of legend image; the guy who sweats it out and builds his tool with the strength of his will becomes a very alluring role-model.

Re: When to re-start PE (i.e. monitoring Negative PIs) by sparkyx
I’ll also lightly stretch and/or pinch along the shaft of my flaccid, checking for any tenderness; when that goes away, I’m usually good to start again. Kegeling in blood to my flaccid helps alleviate any soreness, and speeds up recovery.

Re: Wearing an ADS to heal for several hours by sparkyx
I plan on adding an ADS to my routine once my “newbie” gains slow down; I want to see how far each technique will take me first.

Re: Non-porn/porn “stimulation” by sparkyx
How would you categorize fantasies as a form of stimulation? I tend to use them to begin a PE session, or maintain an edging session, but if my PIs are on the negative side (e.g. persistent tenderness or turtling), it’s difficult to get them to work for PE, but they will for edging, which then will often lead to an overtrained unit and a few days off. I guess in this respect, they might be as bad as porn…

Re: Semi-woods, turtling, and climate by luke626181
I tend to agree with the semi-wood observation; it ties in with what Sparky said about healing in a non-contracted state. If you live in a cold climate, adding warmer underwear (boxers tend to let in too much of a draft, I find) or even wearing some sort of “cup” helps prevent turtling.

Re: Masturbation and Intercourse effects on PE by Equine Rooster
A really good point here; it takes a lot of discipline to not play with our amped-up units :)
Intercourse may not have a negative effect because either the pressure and irritation to the penile tissues is considerably less when in the vagina, and/or we edge more when we masturbate; probably the former…

posted by long_lurker:
“Everybody talks about jelqing here, and pretty much everybody does it, but I would be willing to bet that most don’t even do that basic exercise correctly. I know I spent months doing it wrong and I’ve always considered myself very serious and dedicated.”

I agree with this sentiment; after many months of this, I still think I could be doing it better, but thankfully my ruler is starting to give me some positive feedback :)

Re: When to start PE after a rest period by Equine Rooster
I tend to do the same three things: measure often (weekly), pay attention to stretched flaccid tenderness or discomfort, and take a one/two day break whenever PE is inconvenient or I get some negative PIs.

Re: Super Relaxation Response and discipline in routine etc. by sparkyx
I find I get that SRR effect too, possibly due to release of enkephalins from my worked unit. It feels similar to the body buzz one gets after a good aerobic workout, but milder, and more localized to the pelvic region. Again, it seems like discipline is a key factor for gains: in how we PE, how we monitor our PIs, and how we rest.

A possible compromise to the more/less is more approach would be Sparkys modification of the “Big Gainer” routine, based on Wadzillas mysterious big gainer friend (Speaking to Big Gainer soon) which I’m currently experimenting with. Finding the time/intensity that allows you to PE almost everyday is not only a promising way to gain, but it also builds motivation and takes advantage of the fact that we tend to be creatures of habit.

Re: Higher libido, urge to wank off, and ways to resist said urges posted by Everyone:)
I think I’ll do a set of benches or squats now…:D

Ok so I have P.E’ed for 3 days straight with this new routine of doing higher reps with lighter and quicker jelqs and this is what I have noticed. After my session my penis feels pretty sore for the rest of the day. It doesn’t hang really full or anything but I am still able to get a rock solid erection on command. I will get random “plumpiness” during the day but not random erection just to clarify.

My night woods and morning woods have come back after about a 3 month hiatus. They are not super strong night woods, but they are definitely there. Also when I pop a wood now, it is about a 10/10 on hardness and inflexibility. Of course it it probably too soon to see any gains if i AM in fact in the growth zone, so I will keep doing this routine until I see something. Here is where I am confused. I was sore all day yesterday, but now I am not, and I am popping awesome woods and have morning woods. Do I keep doing this routine, do I add more reps? When do I take a day off? Is it just when I see my erections start to get softer or what? You guys have been amazing helping me get through this crazy penile psychosis I am going through. I KNOW I will soon have an 8x6 with your help. Thank you soooo much!

Also last night I was in a sex shop with this chick because she works there and I went to say hi. She insisted on making me feel and play with everything in the store lol. I asked her which dildo she thought was the best size and she immediatly grabbed the one that was 8 inches and said it was the best. There you have it boys and girls; 8x6 is money! I WILL have that cock, no matter what :)

Originally Posted by budz
Ok so I have P.E’ed for 3 days straight with this new routine of doing higher reps with lighter and quicker jelqs and this is what I have noticed. After my session my penis feels pretty sore for the rest of the day. It doesn’t hang really full or anything but I am still able to get a rock solid erection on command. I will get random “plumpiness” during the day but not random erection just to clarify.

My night woods and morning woods have come back after about a 3 month hiatus. They are not super strong night woods, but they are definitely there. Also when I pop a wood now, it is about a 10/10 on hardness and inflexibility. Of course it it probably too soon to see any gains if i AM in fact in the growth zone, so I will keep doing this routine until I see something. Here is where I am confused. I was sore all day yesterday, but now I am not, and I am popping awesome woods and have morning woods. Do I keep doing this routine, do I add more reps? When do I take a day off? Is it just when I see my erections start to get softer or what? You guys have been amazing helping me get through this crazy penile psychosis I am going through. I KNOW I will soon have an 8x6 with your help. Thank you soooo much!

Also last night I was in a sex shop with this chick because she works there and I went to say hi. She insisted on making me feel and play with everything in the store lol. I asked her which dildo she thought was the best size and she immediatly grabbed the one that was 8 inches and said it was the best. There you have it boys and girls; 8x6 is money! I WILL have that cock, no matter what :)

I would keep going and see what happens. Wait until you see a EQ drop, then see how many days that took. So if it was 5 days of PE before you see a EQ drop, then I would go with 5 on and one or two off and see what happens.

If growth occurs, great…stick with that for a while and see if after a while the 5th day DOESN’T drop EQ. When that begins to occur I would up the time a bit and get back the slight drop on the fifth day.

If no growth is starting after a week or two, then I would slightly up the time and observe.

I truly believe that once you are getting great EQ, that the growth zone is close by or right there. At that point if no gains are occurring, make SMALL changes in your force or time and see what effect it has.

Its like if you are using a metal detector to dig up old rings or coins, and you hear a tone indicating that you are close…don’t walk 50 ft away and start digging! Dig right where the tone is loudest! Same with EQ, when EQ is high, don’t start making big changes, make small changes…a bit more, a bit less until you start to see gains.

Sparkyx, Ive been trying to watch my EQ and all of that. But the day or 2 after I had sex, atleast twice, it drops from like 9 to 7 or 6. So how can I monitor my EQ when these sudden drops of EQ occur?

Originally Posted by ICANdothis
Sparkyx, Ive been trying to watch my EQ and all of that. But the day or 2 after I had sex, atleast twice, it drops from like 9 to 7 or 6. So how can I monitor my EQ when these sudden drops of EQ occur?

If you notice it drops after sex, just factor that in when observing it and deciding whether its from your PE or not.

Lets just say you jelque for 10 minutes 2days on and one off and EQ stays high. Lets say you have sex on that first day and EQ drops…I would just ignore the drop and do my second day anyway.

I personally find an EQ change from cumming is more testosterone related and not penile stress. Although usually sex with my gal increases my EQ (testosterone surge) and jerking off drops it. (probably tissue stress)

Originally Posted by sparkyx
A week is only necessary if you beat the crap out of your dick. If you just kinda’ over do it, wait until you get a more relaxed flaccid then you can begin again. The heavier, full flaccid indicates that the smooth muscle has gotten over the insult and has relaxed again. This is a good time to re-start.

I am actually trying to make the above into a technique in it’s own right!

I am a less is more guy. I have been doing a potent mix of Kegel stretches, O-bends, dry jelqing and fowfers. What I have found is that, flaccid goes to shit after initially pumping up, morning wood goes too. But if I wait a few days, morning wood comes back, and flaccid is plumper during the day. So my plan is to hit it with my routine, and wait until the plumping comes back, and hit it again. Trouble is, it’s a moving target. I have no quite found the zone or “sweet spot” with this routine, but I keep trying, because sometimes after just one session, sex is amazing - it feels like it is getting almost stuck due to the girth increase! But i have not worked out what I am doing right, in order to repeat it - expect another Phd thesis form me when I do.


I'm fed up of having a signature!

Originally Posted by marky777
I am actually trying to make the above into a technique in it’s own right!

I am a less is more guy. I have been doing a potent mix of Kegel stretches, O-bends, dry jelqing and fowfers. What I have found is that, flaccid goes to shit after initially pumping up, morning wood goes too. But if I wait a few days, morning wood comes back, and flaccid is plumper during the day. So my plan is to hit it with my routine, and wait until the plumping comes back, and hit it again. Trouble is, it’s a moving target. I have no quite found the zone or “sweet spot” with this routine, but I keep trying, because sometimes after just one session, sex is amazing - it feels like it is getting almost stuck due to the girth increase! But i have not worked out what I am doing right, in order to repeat it - expect another Phd thesis form me when I do.

Let us know how it goes!

I had inadvertantly did that a few years ago. I was doing clamped bends for a while, EQ in the toilet… I was on a trip overseas for about 4 weeks TOTAL decon. By the first week I was getting PAINFUL nite wood! When I got back, I had an increase of 1/4 inch on bpfl. Not sure if there was a gain on bpel though.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
I personally find an EQ change from cumming is more testosterone related and not penile stress. Although usually sex with my gal increases my EQ (testosterone surge) and jerking off drops it. (probably tissue stress)

As I have mentioned a number of times in various posts, this is what I have found as well. Sex is good, masturbation is bad as far as EQ.

But I find it so very interesting. It simply has to be pheromones??? I have tried using a very light touch for masturbation, same deal.

Even when she does the “work”, the net EQ effect is the same as intercourse, even when she remains fully clothed. She uses as hard or harder grip than I do. But she does get excited, so maybe pheromones are released?

The interaction between a long time couple is fascinating. Like that study that showed women are healthier/happier if they regularly swallow semen, but it had to be a long term partner. (Although that one might be a chicken/egg situation.)

I know all I have to do is smell her scalp, and an erection will begin, although this has happened from the very start.


Sept. 4, '07: BPEL 6.875 inches, EG widest 5.25

Goal: Double digits

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