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Is LESS more, or is MORE more?

Length wise I am definately a “less is more” person. Girthwise I don’t know. I’ve tried many different combos, but I’ve always been a hard girth gainer :)


"You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts."

Originally Posted by lostracco
Sparky -

Taking into account that you’ve claimed to be a scientist with some degree of physiological knowledge and more credibility than most members around here on physiological and scientific issues, I’d like to ask you the following questions:


Never claimed that. I am a Chiropractor and try to apply the “scientific method” to my experiments in PE.

Originally Posted by lostracco
1) What do you think is the physiological difference between the two kinds of PE’ers? What physically differentiates the less is more guy from the more is more?


It would just be a guess, I haven’t even tried to figure that one out.

Originally Posted by lostracco
2) How does it apply across the spectrum of known routines? Will the more is more guy necessarily be the same across the board with jelqing/pumping/clamping/hanging/etc? Do all excercises of a similar nature produce the same results for the same guy? For example.. since jelqing and clamping effect tissues in a similar way, will less clamping be more for the less jelqing is more guy? Will less hanging be more for the less manual stretching is more guy?


Its seems fairly universal that the greater the stress on girth, the longer the recovery needed, but thats relative to the individual. But its fairly safe to say girth takes more recovery than pure length stress like hanging.
Yes, in general girth exercises will produce SIMILAR stress, under similar force levels. HOWEVER, what a guy might think are similar clamping and jelquing force might actually be very different. You may think you are gripping hard, but it may not anywhere near the force produced by say clamping and bending.

Originally Posted by lostracco
3) Being a hanger I’m especially interested in your thoughts on this subject as it applies to connective tissue stretching. I’ve heard arguments from both sides, but the truth seems to lie in the fact that tissues will heal, whether extended or not, and that healing extended is better for gains than healing turtled. Applying constant stress would be ideal. Does this relate to your conclusion, or is connective tissue stretching a different ballgame?
~L


As far as EXACTLY whats happening, until we get actual histiologic studies, we are just giving our best guess. Until then, its best to go by RESULTS and make our decisions based on that. As far a hanging, it seems to make sense to me that some sort of ADS that DOESN’T SLOW THE HEALING PROCESS would be more productive than letting it heal in a contracted state.

Some guys seem to be able to stress their penis and not have it contract, even have it hang in a long flaccid state. This would seem to not need some type of ADS to allow gains. However, if the penis retracts and remains that way for several hours, it seems counter productive and some sort of low stress ADS make sense to me.

Originally Posted by MakeYouScream
I think PE is a lot like weight training. I want to lift every day because it makes me feel like I am getting stronger, but I never will if I don’t give my muscles a chance to repair themselves.

In my opinion, you should be able to stretch at least every day.


I agree in principle, however if you get contraction after your stretching that lasts more than a couple hours, it may be couter productive.

Originally Posted by budz
True. But today I pumped for my 1st time and got a shit ton of tiny red dots because i think the pressure was too high. It was below 5hg and it felt good but maybe that was still too much. I get those red dots so fucking easily! Anyways, I havent had night wood/morning wood in a while and my penis is hanging flacid like it was pre-pe when I know it should be much fuller.


In general, drop down the pressure below the “red dot” level. With time you should be able to raise it slightly and not get the dots. It used to be that I couldn’t go above 4.5 in hg with out dots, now 5 in hg is fine. For some guys with a very sensitive unit, jelquing seems to be a better option. Sometimes the force needed to stimulate growth might be too stressful for your unit, and you never really get any gains from it. If you want to make pumping work for you, you might want to look into either water or condom pumping.

Originally Posted by budz
Should I just wait till night/morning woods come back before starting again?


At least wait until the flaccid feels “soft” and flexible, that indicates smooth muscle has relaxed. When you over do the stress to the smooth muscle, not only does it contract, but it gets that “corded’ feeling.

Originally Posted by budz
Also even when my morning woods weren’t happening, I was still able to get a 10/10 erection when aroused by watching some porn. I still felt over trained during this time because my flaccid wasn’t hanging full. Whats up with that?


Porn is like viagra, its artificial stimulation. I find non porn arousal is a very sensitive indicator for me. If I am NOT over trained, just jelquing for a few minutes produces at least a 50% erection. If I am over trained, forget it! Porn can over come that effect and give me a false read.

I have advised against things like Cialis and Viagra when you are trying to “tune in ” the right amount of PE for you, because it will give you a false read on what you can take productively. I think it may be the same for porn. ONCE you have found the right amount of force/time for you, then if you add the artificial stimulus WITHOUT changing the amount of time and force, I don’t think it would be detrimental at all.

Originally Posted by budz
I don’t mean to hijack this thread but I am seeing crazy weird things!

Last night I did not have wood as well as this morning as noted before, however my EQ today was RIDICULOUS! it was easily a 10/10 and was as big as it has ever been! I measured and I had gained about 2/8 of an inch and am back to where I was when I felt like I was gaining. I have no idea what to do because my night/morning woods are gone but I now have an AWESOME eq… maybe it was from the pumping yesterday and very light 25 jelqs after?

I will take the less is more approach today and lay off until I get some input from you all, or until i can make a good decision tomorrow. THanks guys!

EQ is the TOTAL picture. If your waking EQ is incredible, then don’t worry if you hadn’t BEEN AWAKE to observe nite and morning wood. Make a note of the stimulus (time/force) and the number of days off to have EQ come blazing back. If its more than 2 days of recovery needed, cut back on your PE level a bit and try and be totally recovered by the second day.

HOWEVER, the bottom line is gains! If you find you are gaining, just try and reproduce what you did and see if it repeats.

Sparkyx..

I’m glad you brought this up, I think those that can grow with very little PE are the lucky ones. Me I am somewhere in between the more group and less group. One thing that I do that is constant when I jelq I jelq real slow and use a lite grip. Now and then I like to mix it up with faster jelqing though.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Haven’t read the other responses, but I’d say that neither less nor more is necessarily better. What you have to understand is that you can underdo it, or you can overdo it, and in either case you are doing a disservice to your penis. Basically, you need to understand the physiological indicators. A good thing to go by is this: if, after a workout, the following morning you wake up with nice morning wood, your body appreciates what you’ve done. If this is not the case, I’d say you did too little or too much. In PE, like everything in life, you need a healthy balance. Don’t go extremely overboard and overzealous with it! Just be consistent, and push yourself in a comfortable way. Never get careless and put extra pressure that may cause a problem.


Recognize.

A good indicator for myself is the amount of ‘semi’s’ I get after training. These feel very full and I often retain a small pump throughout the day. Conversely I know I am close or at over training point when my unit retracts in flaccid state and appears much smaller. However the current weather doesn’t help.

Luke.

Glad you brought this up, Sparky, as I could see opposing schools of thought being discussed in this forum. Lately, I’ve been thinking that maybe there are two different ways to actually gain - maybe the ones who gain with less, are gaining on some different physiological process than those who gain with more.

The idea of how we actual gain has been lightly discussed here, I think most explored by Wad at some point, but the truth is, none of us really know. Plastic deformation has been discussed, as well as a general cell-multiplying theory. It may be that both theories are correct, but one just works better for some than others, and for a few unfortunate few, none work at all. I dunno, something I’m just kicking around in my head lately. Either way, thanks for addressing it Sparky.


Going for 6 inches of girth, wish me luck.

Slightly off topic, but those who feel like they always over train might be checking out this thread.

I don’t want to start this debate yet again but I do want to add something regarding the guys who feel like they have sensitive units.

Reducing ejaculation from masturbation seems to have helped me a lot. It’s like my penis can then handle more stresses. It may be making the difference between me being able to work out over the “break over point”, and it may be making it more resilient and less susceptible to over training.

For 24 hours or so after masturbation, the tissues feel softer to the touch. Without masturbation, they feel more firm. This is not just a plumpness issue. Comparing the two at the same state of being, not plump, just a relaxed flaccid, the tissues feel firmer than after masturbation to ejaculation.

So for me I TRY to not masturbate on PE days. While not scientific study, I have noticed better gains during the months I have had more success following my rule of no masturbation on PE days.

Sex doesn’t seem to have the same effect, in fact the opposite. I know that part of it doesn’t make sense.


Sept. 4, '07: BPEL 6.875 inches, EG widest 5.25

Goal: Double digits

Originally Posted by Equine Rooster
Slightly off topic, but those who feel like they always over train might be checking out this thread.

I don’t want to start this debate yet again but I do want to add something regarding the guys who feel like they have sensitive units.

Reducing ejaculation from masturbation seems to have helped me a lot. It’s like my penis can then handle more stresses. It may be making the difference between me being able to work out over the “break over point”, and it may be making it more resilient and less susceptible to over training.

For 24 hours or so after masturbation, the tissues feel softer to the touch. Without masturbation, they feel more firm. This is not just a plumpness issue. Comparing the two at the same state of being, not plump, just a relaxed flaccid, the tissues feel firmer than after masturbation to ejaculation.

So for me I TRY to not masturbate on PE days. While not scientific study, I have noticed better gains during the months I have had more success following my rule of no masturbation on PE days.

Sex doesn’t seem to have the same effect, in fact the opposite. I know that part of it doesn’t make sense.

Your masturbating to hard. Lighten the grip a bit and make what time you spend jerking off count.

Try some edging to build stamina rather than refraining from masturbation. I went down the road of ED it started out with less masturbation. Less masturbation/sex equals lower libido in time. Lower libido in time leads to a drop in testosterone and possibly thyroid levels. Use it or lose it.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Originally Posted by kazooplayer
Glad you brought this up, Sparky, as I could see opposing schools of thought being discussed in this forum. Lately, I’ve been thinking that maybe there are two different ways to actually gain - maybe the ones who gain with less, are gaining on some different physiological process than those who gain with more.

I think its just recovery rates, very much like bodybuilding. Some guys can workout for hours and gain, and for others it would cause them to crash and burn. So no, I don’t think its different physiology, just different recovery rates.

Sparky - Do you think possibly the difference between the less and more guys has to do with the layers in the tunica. I have read on here where some people have three layers and some have two layers. This a great thread by the way.

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