Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Importance of rest days

Looked through the posts tried to see if I had put it under the wrong thread but didn’t find it thanks again for your help on this.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Originally Posted by diesel220
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As for not believing that leg lengthening is the same a penile lengthening. I find the reasons against it to hold no or very little weight.just because medical tissue lengthening doesn’t fall into your idea on how the body work make little sense to me.If some one tells me they think working out legs 2 days in a row gives them better growth,I don’t listen to it because I know that science and real word results prove differently.

When lenghtening a leg, how much weight is used? Find this data, divide by 50, or 100 or whatever you could realistically think penis strength stays to leg-strength. I think you will find this final data: the force used is near the tension that extenders exerts.

This, without underlyining that, I hope, you don’t want to break your penis, so the leg-lengthening example is likely not fitting

Originally Posted by diesel220

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So just so I am clear I believe in rest days just not for traction but for manuals like jelqing clamping and pumping yes.

So, you are agreeing with me and disagreeing with Dick Builder.

That said, you’re suggesting hanging 7/7 with a really low weight: maybe 2-6 lbs. That’s not what we are debating here, and it’s not what hangers are supposed to do. Hangers go up to 25+ lbs, depending on what kind of hanger is used.
If you are using weights as ADS, this is not hanging, in the common sense.

Originally Posted by diesel220
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Cell splitting as we know it happens very little in muscle mass it is called hyperplasia the definition is this.An increase in number of cells in the tissue or organ excluding tumor formation, whereby bulk of the part or organ maybe increased. This is when the body makes more actual muscle fibrils.This type of growth is what happens in the penis or leg lengthening and is most like cell mitosis the formation of totally new cells.
……………

Where is written that hyperplasia can’t happen when resting? Hyperplasia and hypertrophia are two ways for recovering tears used by human’ body.
Differntly by what you think, hypertophia in very small amount of muscular tissue can happens at the same time the tissue is under load; if the amount of the affected tissue is large/load is high, the body can’t repair damnages without rest.

The same with hyperplasia, relating to connective tissue (as ligs). If you have a teared lig, what are you coming to do, hanging 25+ lbs with that? When the lig can heal if new tears are added 7/7?

Originally Posted by Dick Builder
If we can both agree that elongation of the tunica takes place through the process of micro-tears then would’n’t it make sense to you that the elongation is in fact actually taking place during your hanging set and not from growth during rest periods afterwards?


Originally Posted by marinera
It’s a non-sequitur.
When hanging, you’re causing a relatively high damage in penile tissues; it can’t grow while you’re hanging.


This discussion would be a lot less nerve-racking if you wouldn’t change the wording and subsequent meaning of my statements and then call it fallacious. I used the term ‘elongation’ for a reason. Why would you then change it to ‘grow’? I can only imagine that it’s easier for you to refute my argument when you have modified it to suit your needs.

Originally Posted by Dick Builder
Furthermore, isn’t the reason hangers often strap on an extension device after their sets is in order to facilitate ‘healing in the extended state’? If that’s so then wouldn’t it make sense that the healing process begins immediately after the damage occurs and doesn’t necessitate days of rest?


Originally Posted by marinera
You are countradicting what you said: if growth happened in the hanging time, there is no need of “healing in the extended state”.


Again, I didn’t state that “growth happened” while hanging. What I did say was that elongation took place from micro-tears.

I really don’t have the time or the patience to sit here correcting every single strawman you create from my statements in order to ‘win’ an argument. I’m only half way through your post and I think I’ve had enough.

Good luck Diesel. I’m out of here.


Then (4.5 nbpel x 4.75 mseg)

Now (5.625 nbpel, x 5.25 mseg)

All I can say is wow, anyone who reads this thread will understand what we are saying who has kept there view on things steady through out this and other thread’s. I will not fall into this trap again. Say what you will when I post I will only respond to those who are really trying to seek the truth in the PE experience.

Good luck to everyone here in growing in a larger cock in anyway you feel is right if you have a question for me than I will answer them. There lots of great guys on here with lots of information on PE. So please anyone new or looking in on this thread don’t judge the site by one person stay join contribute what you can most everyone here is here to help in anyway we can.

Ask questions if the answer you get makes sense follow it if it doesn’t then keep asking questions.Questions lead to knowledge and that knowledge will lead to your goal.

I told Thunderss I would chill and I am I will not respond on the he said she said. This is his site and we must have some respect the man who has made it so we can all trade or ideas and experience’s.

I am out of here too Dick builder it been nice to talk to you I disagreed about something with you in a post in another thread but the disagreement was civil and know I would call you a friend on here that is how it should be. I think we should start are own thread on traction and have every one post what they have done with traction devices and how it’s worked or not worked.

Maybe see if the guys who hang and use traction are getting faster results.Maybe we can all come to some come ground on the topic that has worked well for the mass

I will start it know hope you and others join.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Originally Posted by Dick Builder
This discussion would be a lot less nerve-racking if you wouldn’t change the wording and subsequent meaning of my statements and then call it fallacious. I used the term ‘elongation’ for a reason. Why would you then change it to ‘grow’? I can only imagine that it’s easier for you to refute my argument when you have modified it to suit your needs.

How could you have elongation without growth? Do you think your penis is a piece of metal?

Originally Posted by Dick Builder

Again, I didn’t state that “growth happened” while hanging. What I did say was that elongation took place from micro-tears.

If you have micro-tears, you don’t have permanent elongation: you have to fill those micro-tears to have permanent elongation. That’s how our body works.

Originally Posted by Dick Builder

I really don’t have the time or the patience to sit here correcting every single strawman you create from my statements in order to ‘win’ an argument. I’m only half way through your post and I think I’ve had enough.

You’re sustaining a theory that has logical falls and has no emprical proofs.
You recognized, in another thread, that the kind of work you are supporting is dangerous.

The only way you are supporting that theory is posting this mantra “This seller or this other seller, who claims unproved incredible gains, says this is the truth.”. Instead of complaining for inexistent “strawmans” or “hypocritical” attitude, you should recognize that you are wrong.

My job here is giving to members good information about having penile gains and avoid injuries. I don’t care if you want to believe to any sellers’ advertising. But don’t cry if, the more you speak, the more become evident that you’re saying illogical things.


Last edited by marinera : 05-17-2008 at .

I think what marinera is saying about needing to heal the microtears can be explained in hanging terms as riding the fatigue.

If you’re hanging 20lbs and it becomes uncomfortable, you drop to 19,18,17 etc.

This is how we avoid the injury you’re talking about.

The goal in hanging is the fatigue. That’s when deformation is happening. You want to sustain that. Deforming the deformation (aka hanging 9 lbs OTS after 3 sets of 10) can only make it longer. Injuring it.. aka hanging weight when you’re getting obvious signs that it hurts and you need to stop, will injure it.

Yeah, there’s going to be incidental rest.. like sleep. Work. Family. Got it. I’m saying you want to get as much time and tension as you can. Obviously not to the point of pain.

~L


"HALT! This is a no-turtle zone."

5/14/09 - BPEL 7.0" BPFSL 8.25" EG 4.5"

1/1/10 - BPEL 7.5" BPFSL 9.0" EG 5.0" - GOAL

I have never read of any physiological reason for taking rest breaks. That is in over ten years of reading forums.

Well, let me amend that: After a session is over, until the start of the next session, you ARE resting from further stress. But the body is not resting. It is in the process of healing the damage done in the previous session.

It seems to me the question is: How much time do you need between sessions and why?

There is only one way to make gains in PE, and that is to provide enough deforming stress to the erection-restrictive-collagenous tissues which restrain an erection. Either the longitudenal or lateral layers of the tunica, or the ligaments which may hold inner shaft against the pubic bone for many guys. That is it.

Of course, it is really neat that your unit still work after undergoing all of that required stress. A big plus. Therefore, you have to be careful not to overstress, and surely not overstress the soft tissues of the penis, the nerves, blood vessels, skin, smooth muscle, urethra, etc.

These soft tissues, communications, plumbing, protection, etc, do not restrict an erection very much, but are very important. They DO need some period of time to recover from same stresses imposed on the tougher collagenous tissues. Generally within a few hours after a normal session, they are ready to go for most guys, unless there has been overstress.

Next, you have to ask what happens when rest is incurred after deforming collagenous tissues. The answer is, they begin to heal, almost immediately. Deforming collagenous tissues produces crinellations (folds) in the collagenous fibers, much as seen when a rubberband is overstretched.

In healing, these crinellations are bridged over by new collagenous tissue, laid down by the body. In time, this forms a much stronger area, due to more mass, IF the crinellations are not pulled out.

Let me amend that: The new material will be laid down anyway, healing the area. You want the new material laid down in the extended state, not in the retracted state. You also do not want the new material laid across folds, making the area much thicker, but rather laid flat on extended deformed tissue.

Therefore, if you allow enough time for the new material to “set-up”, become strong, in the retracted state, it makes it much tougher to make new gains in the area, new deformations.

Conversely, if you are constantly riding fatigue, session after session, further stressing already deformed tissues, further deformation is easier on these weakened tissues. Your body WILL heal no matter what. You simply want the tough collagenous tissues to heal in the extended state, not in the retracted state. BTW, fatigue is a very good indicator of deformation. Pain is an indicator of injury.

Sometimes, guys DO overstress, overwork. They become very sore, sometimes even suffer pain. This is an indication by the body that an injury is possible, a tear. That is the only reason I know of to take time off, the threat of injury. But that problem is caused again by overwork. Not being smart.

But even if a guy is very sore, if he can hang even one set at greatly reduced weight, he can pull out the crinellations formed from previous micro-damage, and while probably not making further progress, can at least keep from making gains tougher. This minimal work will probably not risk injury.

The best method I have found to make gains is to slowly work up in stress until you are able to reach fatigue early in a session. Then continue hanging, or whatever, at reduced stress while in the fatigued state, always remaining relatively comfortable. If you have to reduce weight (stress) to more than half your max weight, it is best to stop the session. If you do this, it is doubtful you will overstress.

A consistant, dedicated, smooth program; same amount of time, or same number of sets, each day, is the best way to make gains. Problems occur when guys do a one day, intense session. The body must have time to adapt and grow. You cannot make tremendous gains from one session. Not going to happen.

Finally, I can tell you from anecdotal evidence from hundreds of guys, no rest DAYS produces much better, more consistant gains. I have had reports from hundreds of guys who were on an arbitrary schedule that contained rest days, and who had minimal or no gains. Then, when they switched to taking no days off from hanging, suddenly began to steadily gain.

Further, again from anecdotal evidence, I can say that it appears that two or more shorter sessions during the day is more beneficial than a single session of the same time period. This makes sense in that the crinellations would be pulled out more often, giving less opportunity for strengthening.

Now, sometimes a guy reaches fatigue, deforming tissues, and the tissues naturally swell. The outward swell of the tunica causes the shaft to pull back slightly. The shaft seems to shrink and may seem rubbery. This is simply a bodily reaction to the microdamage.

If you take time off, the swelling goes down, and the tissues are able to return to normal length, or even longer because of previous deformations, previous work. The rest did NOT cause any actual gain, but rather impeded future gains.

BUT, if instead of rest days, you were to simply cut back on the intensity of your sessions for a day or two, the swelling would still go down, tissues return to normal, and you would have the added value of having pulled out the crinellations during that time, thereby making more progress.

So while I am not in favor of ever taking rest days, if it can be avoided, reduced intensity days do have value.

There is a lot of other crap involved, but that is the jist. Probably much more than you wanted to know.

Bigger

OKAY FELLAS: I asked BIB/BIGGER the question being debated on this thread about rest days and rest periods. The above is what he gave me permission to post. This to me is what I will chart my PE journey on because this guy of any guy in PE has attained what we all want. He tells me he will not get into a brouhaha over his opinion. It is as it is and it is final in my book.

Well, I do n’t know if I’ve well understood, thinkthank: who’s the author of that post? Bib?

Doesn’t matter. I think the core point of this theory is here:

Originally Posted by thinktank
……………………………..
Therefore, if you allow enough time for the new material to “set-up”, become strong, in the retracted state, it makes it much tougher to make new gains in the area, new deformations.

Conversely, if you are constantly riding fatigue, session after session, further stressing already deformed tissues, further deformation is easier on these weakened tissues.
…………………………………….

Now, that’s what the “science” seem to say us about connective tissue:

“When stretched, the connective tissue appears to be viscoelastic in nature. When a force is applied against the tissue and then removed, the tissue behaves as if it has both plastic and elastic properties. The elastic response is shown by recovery of the tissue to its original shortened position, while the plastic response is characterized by permanent elongation. Optimal plastic deformation of the tissue results with applications of long periods of low force stretch. The tissue slowly remodels because a biochemical response, triggered by constant force, results in a loosening and shifting of the fibers’ connecting points within the tissue. By contrast, elongation of shortened connective tissue, through short periods of forceful stretching, relies upon attempt to mechanically break or tear the connecting points. Typically, with short periods of high force stretching, the result is a higher proportion of elastic response, less remodeling, and greater trauma and weakening of the tissue.”

“To summarize, the longest period of low force stretch produces the greatest amount of permanent elongation, with the least amount of trauma and structural weakening of the connective tissues. Consequently, permanent elongation of connective tissue results in range of motion increases for the patient.”

Hepburn GR. Case Studies: Contracture and Stiff Joint Management with Dynasplint. The Journal of Orthopaedic and Sports Physical Therapy 8 (1987) 498-504.

I think this doesn’t require explication.

“On the one hand, connective tissues have a major function in sustaining mechanical stresses; on the other hand, they require these stresses for their maintenance. Thus, connective tissue cells must sense strains [deformations] in the ECM caused by mechanical stresses (forces per area), and translate this information into an adaptive response, e.g. an increase or decrease in ECM production.”

Chiquet M, et al. How do fibroblasts translate mechanical signals into changes in extracellular matrix production? Matrix Biology 22 (2003) 73–80.

Well, an “adptive reponse” requires time. The body doesn’t adapt permenently to a stress in an instantaneous way. That’s why the “deforming a tissue already deformed” opinion doesn’t make sense as well. In the short period, the body isn’t healing, is just producing an “alert reaction” to that stress. If the stress is systematically applyed, over a given amount of time, the body does adapt.

So:
1. it’s the healing process that makes your penis bigger;
2. So, rest days will not make your penis shorter;
3. The idea of the tissue “healing anyway” is wrong: anyone knows that repeated micro-trauma, even from a week to another, as well as the overload, are the major causes of elite athlete’s injuries; and ligs and tendons are connective tissue, like tunica, right?

So, taking rest-days is better in terms of costs/benefits: you are deminishing risks without making your gains- -achievement-process slower.

About the “anecdotical evidence”, I think there is really nothing to say.


Last edited by marinera : 05-17-2008 at .

The author of the info on rest days in my last post is fresh from BIB/BIGGER. He is the expert in these matters.

I agree with you on your post or bib post. We have been trying to say this for the last 4 pages.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

I think if we all keep trying to convince one person whose mind is made up, we’ll talk until we’re blue in the face. You can scream it from a thousand rooftops but it’ll fall on deaf ears unless it’s convenient to hear it. Or to save face.

I know what my routine’s going to be.

~L


"HALT! This is a no-turtle zone."

5/14/09 - BPEL 7.0" BPFSL 8.25" EG 4.5"

1/1/10 - BPEL 7.5" BPFSL 9.0" EG 5.0" - GOAL

Thanks for the post think. I take that as the single most informative post on thunders. Well, that which is relevant to my goals.

I have tried rest days. Calculated rest days.
I have not gained from them. I have not gained at all while incorporating them into my routine.
I’ve only gained when I continually keep the penis under stress. Not a dangerous amount. But, enough.

Therefore I’m cutting calculated rest out of my routine. I may have days off. But they will only be because I couldn’t get enough time to hang.


Last edited by Sacred : 05-18-2008 at .

BIBs WISDOM

You’re welcome Sacred. I agree. The wisdom is not mine but is BIBs. That guy went from six to ten and three quarters hanging. If he does not know about rest days, no one does. Great guy he is too. If you have not been to the forums on his hanging website, you need to go. Lots of wisdom there and a great attitude by the owner too. To me the wisdom of what BIB says succinctly needs to be posted somewhere prominent on this website. I for one will set my routine by what BIB says.

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