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Icing down while stretched

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I’m gonna try this out a little. I have a traction device to hold the stretch (something I over paid for and never used ) and a hot water bottle that I can fill with ice. Maybe that damn traction device can start earning it’s keep. :)


Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. I was Comtemplating the immortal words of Socrates, who said "I drank what!?". Start May 2005 6.5" BPEL - 6" NBPEL - 5" eg June 2005 6.75" BPEL - 6.25" NBPEL - 5" eg August 2005 7.125" BPEL - 6.5" NBPEL - 5" eg

Well I did a little research and I found the following article

Http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/11/04/27.html

The summary of the article basically supports the theory of cooling off the area after stretching while being stretched to stabilize the tissue new length.

However, the experiment was done on lab rats, so how similar are we to them is another question.

I have started experimenting with icing. Currently I am following a girth workout by icing for 10-15min with my clamp on. I then downgrade to a cock ring for a while to keep the tunica somewhat expanded. If nothing else it controls swelling. If I feel this is working well I will start my own thread for sure.

This is an excerpt from 2growbig’s link:

“Taylor et al.4 experimented with rabbit muscle/tendons and felt that the main response to stretch could be explained by viscoelastic properties alone, exclusive of reflex effects. They found that denervated muscles responded similarly to the innervated muscles in flexibility testing. Interestingly, they found that most of the stress relaxation took place within 12 to 18 seconds of stretch and there was insignificant relaxation afterwards. They also found that in static stretching, 80 percent of the stretch occurred after the first four stretches and stretching afterwards improved elongation very little. Of course we are dealing with rabbit tendons — are there any human volunteers in the audience?”

If this is applicable to ligs and tunica, it sounds like short sets of stretching should be the way to go. Controversial? Any comments to this?


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

I searched at http://www.physsportsmed.com/back_iss.htm for the 1981 article that supported the cooling down, but it was not available on the net (note 8 in the link). Anybody else know how to get at old articles?


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

>muscle/tendons

In PE we aren’t dealing with muscles and their reflexive effects. We are only working on connective tissue. No muscle involved. Apples and oranges.

From what I’ve seen longer duration seems better for what we’re after. Here is one thread.

Hobby, help me out here. For the above qoute, first rabbit muscle is mentioned, and then rabbit tendon at the end. Tendons are connective tissue, no? You read the above as referring to muscles only?

I understand the following as that the connective tissue (passive elements) is targeted also. Especially the last sentences.

“Taylor et al.4 in a very interesting paper attempts to refute the effect of stretching methods based solely on the reflex mechanisms. They feel that the true effect of stretching is related more to the viscoelastic properties of the muscle-tendon unit. The elastic element refers to the spring-like element of tissue where the elongation produced by tensile loading is recovered after the load is removed, thereby creating a temporary or recoverable elongation.8 The viscous properties allow permanent deformation and are considered time-dependent and rate change-dependent. The rate of deformation is directly proportional to the force applied.4 Stress relaxation and creep are examples of viscoelastic properties. Stress relaxation occurs if tissue is stretched to a fixed length tolerable to the patient; the tissue will relax and less force will be necessary for the tissue to remain at the same length. If the force is kept constant, the tissue will elongate due to the process known as creep. When viscoelastic tissue is stretched, the above properties allow plastic or permanent deformation.

The muscle-tendon contains an active (contractile) and passive (non-contractile) component. The active part is related to the interaction between the contractile proteins (actin and myosin) within the muscle fibers. The passive components consist of the connective tissue factors within and around the muscle (perimysium, epimysium, endomysium, sarcolemma), the associated tendon and its insertion, and the connections between the sarcolemma and the tendon.5 Flexibility exercise has its main effect on the passive elements. It is thought that the resistance to stretch is mostly from the extensive connective tissue framework and sheathing within and around the muscle and not from the myofibrillar elements.8”

edit: thanks for the link, I’ll get to that later.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

>I understand the following as that the connective tissue (passive elements) is targeted also.

Yeah, also, not exclusively. ROM improvement or length increases in a muscle-tendon unit doesn’t translate into what we are doing with purely connective tissue. For that, I think we’re better off looking at studies dealing exclusively with ligaments, tendons or fascia.

I reread the thread I linked and chuckled about my comment that perhaps the stretch reflex is our enemy. :)

On 5-31 I started to ice down after my hour stretch with my Auto Ex. I used a gel ice pack and would ice for 5 to 7 minutes while still in traction. I found that for the first few days when I took off my extender my length was about a 1/4 in longer than with heat and as I warmed up my FL and FG were good. But after a week of doing this once in the morning and once in the evening on my workout days (I do two on and one off) my FL was getting smaller. After ten days of this my FL was a good 3/4 inch shorter than normal. My erect length stayed the same but I didn’t want to push things and I stopped the icing. For the last few days I have went back to my regular workout and my FL has returned to normal (finally as of yesterday) and all as I can say is that for me the icing didn’t work.

I do my workout under a 250 watt heat light and for me, I feel this works the best. I have been at Thunders from Feb 2005 and for the first two months just read and looked around and tried a few of the things recommended here and didn’t gain anything to notice. I had been on a pay site before that and really didn’t follow any real routine but did add a 1/2 inch to my length and little to my girth. From April to the end of May I added another 1/4 to my length and almost a 1/4 inch in girth. I will see if the 1/8 per month will continue the end of this month when I take my official monthly measure. But no more icing for me.

Necogy

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