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I realize that this thread may not be well received and may even inspire contempt, but I care enough about the PE community that I want to air my thoughts. I also apologize in advance for the length of the thread.
Many of us – myself included – have complained about the medical community’s disbelief in the efficacy of natural PE. We tend to regard it as a conspiracy, and then resort to numerous cynical allegations regarding their position (usually based on the financial angle). But after more than 16 months of PE under my belt, including countless hours on 4 different online PE forums, I’ve been thinking a lot about this issue.

Why do the doctors dis PE? Well, all their theory tells them that it won’t work. Furthermore, we in the PE community have amassed nothing in the way of “proof” to offer an effective counterargument. Think about it – the onus is on us to disprove their theories. And from a scientific perspective, we haven’t even come close to doing this. Forget about anonymous nicknames posting their claims in an online forum, or the size database, or the occasional penis photographs – nobody has offered anything even remotely approaching “irrefutable proof” that we can add significant length to our erect penises.

I’ve read about claims of guys adding 3, 4, even 5 inches of erect length to their units – yet not one modicum of proof to substantiate those claims. In 4 different online forums, I have read of guys claiming 9 or 10 inches, and more; however, I have seen only 2 guys post pics of penises I consider genuinely HUGE (9” or more): DLD and Piet.

Yet neither of those men has included any before pics. DLD claims that he went from 6½ to (the last I’ve heard) more than 11 inches. [I’m not going to go into the controversy that ensued regarding his measuring techniques, for that’s not the purpose of this thread.] But DLD has never provided any erect pics of himself in the 6½ to 9” range – yet he’s heavily into photography (I’ve even heard that he’s a professional photographer, though I don’t know if that’s true). His paysite does show a grainy still captured from a video which purports to be of him exposing himself onstage (revealing a tiny flaccid nub), but can it be verified? Of course not. And while he’s correct to say that nobody has posted more dick pics than he has, again, none of them are in the 6½ to 9-inch range – just his big dick photos. This has prompted some to allege that he’s always had a big dick (which, of course, is exactly what the medical community would say). And Piet has a very impressive sausage, but has he posted any pics of himself with less than 8 inches (even though he’s stated that he started PE with 7 inches)?

I’m not calling anybody a liar, nor am I trying to dance around the issue with word games, I’m just trying to be as objective as possible.

Stillwantmore also has an impressive beefstick – shown at topping 8.38 inches. And while he’s stated that he began PE a few years ago, at around 6 inches I believe, I’ve never seen a pic of his unit at less than 7.5 inches. So, his photo-chronicle actually spans a range of less than 1-inch deviation. Again, not a very significant difference.

My own pics span a range of 6.12 to 7.01 inches – also less than 1-inch deviation. Hardly staggering. And while I’ve hit 7.6” just recently, the issue is a little more convoluted than that. As I’ve stated, I was 6.5 x 5.2 as a young man. I ended up losing 0.38” erect length sometime in my 30’s. So, my first 0.38” of “gains” was actually a reclamation of lost size. Don’t get me wrong, I’m grateful that I got it back – which I’m sure I would not have done without PE. But, in the grand scheme of things as they say, I’ve only actually gained a total of 1.1” of true growth – depressing, really, after more than 16 months of squeezing & stretching it.

Yet, there’s no shortage of guys who claim to have gained 2½, 3½ – even 5 inches or more of erect length. However, not one of them has clearly & convincingly chronicled those gains with photographic evidence (or any evidence, for that matter). Rather strange, isn’t it?

You can buy a digital camera at Wal Mart for less than 80 bucks. Or even a Polaroid for much less – peel the pic, then scan it into your computer….at least for your own reference. Then, if you later make significant gains, show it to us.

When I took that early, depressing pic of 6.12” EL, I knew I would sit on that pic until I made some gains. And if I made no gains, oh well, the case would’ve been closed long ago – and nobody would’ve ever seen the picture.

How could the medical community not be skeptical? I’m skeptical about claims over 2½ inches erect length gains. Why? Because I’ve never seen it! Not yet with myself, nor with anyone else providing convincing evidence. I still struggle with myself about this being “real” or not, despite the nominal – but undeniable – gains I’ve made.

I do believe that PE is possible – obviously. My unit has about 70% greater volume than when I started (but that was also after some shrinkage & mild E.D.). But I’m seriously beginning to doubt that very significant gains can be made (i.e., greater than 2½ inches erect length or more than 1¼ erect girth).

I find luvdadus’ post to be very inspiring, and he’s made very solid gains – but, again, less than the 2½-inch range I spoke of. Also, I know that if I were a physician I would not be posting pictures of my penis on the Internet. I’m sure that could be damaging to his practice, were it to leak out – especially with him being in the deep South.

I also know that Dino has stated that he’s gained around 2”, but not 2½, if I remember correctly.

But there’s been a glaring absence of other guys offering proof of their gains – not that we’re “owed” proof, but it does lend credibility and, therefore, would be greatly inspiring to the members of our covert community.

I’m sure there are guys out there saying, “Fuck him, I don’t care what he believes.” And, I suppose, you shouldn’t really care what some stranger believes. But that’s the reality – the objective reality of this strange hobby of ours.

What actually got me thinking about this thread was the response I got after posting my “trilogy” pics; really, a rather meager deviation, in my opinion: (wad’s early trilogy). From the posts, as well as messages, it struck me that a number of guys were encouraged by even such nominal gains – which got me thinking more about “realistic” gains.

I’ve read a number of guys state they believe that gains are potentially unlimited. I believe the opposite – that they’re very limited, probably far more so than we realize. I believe I may not have had such raised expectations if I hadn’t been exposed to such extreme & dubious gain claims early in the game.

We all have a right to our own opinions. I’ve always been of the school that says, “Put up or shut up.” That’s how it was at the gym I trained in, or on the field I played sports, etc. Too many guys make exorbitant claims, then act offended when somebody questions it. This happed at MOS when a guy named Red had the balls to claim a 7.4” erect girth, midshaft. He posted a strange, grainy image, then kept asking for feedback. He balked when several suggested he post a pic with a tape measure. Then it became a personal vendetta with him.

That’s the bullshit I’m referring to. And it’s also the bullshit that Jonah Falcon is involved with….13½ x 8….why not say 15 x 9?

If anyone is claiming 9” length or more, or gains above 2½ - 3 inches, I believe they owe it to us to show some evidence. If they refuse to, they have no right to be offended about disbelief. After all, we’re all struggling to keep the faith, to work hard – and we’re doing it in the face of the medical establishment’s laughter.

And this is mainly about gains – not actual current size. Anybody can be “born” with a big dick. We need to see a catalog of real gains. So we should all be vigilant, careful and HONEST.

- wad

Edit: Inserted paragraph breaks. — Ike

Last edited by Ike : 01-05-2004 at .

People hold onto deep beliefs really hard. They like a certain dogma to cling to. By having something to assure themselves about in this insane world, they bring a level of comfort into their shallow lives. I mean a doctor follows his teachings at med school for what can and can’t be done like a Catholic Bishop does to his theology.

New thinking is hard to swallow. People live by Heuristics, these are short little icons or short cuts to think by. If everyone didn’t use them we would die by stress and burn these brains out in these meat puppet bodies we inhabit.

Psychology has dictated that dick size is unchangeable and you have to learn to be happy with yourself. So some people just go okay and accept that coming from a person with a Master’s degree or whatever.

PE is something outside the box. So it doesn’t sit well with the vast majority of people. Spams come every day about it in your email. People don’t like spam, so anything that is associated with shit people loathed gets thrown away. Maybe a desperate few who are short dicked clicked on it, and found themselves in the world of PE. Maybe some bored skeptics clicked on that ad and found themselves into the paysite world or whatever.

People exaggerate size all the time. Look at wrestlers, always mysteriously adding a few inches to height to look even meaner. I remember that one washed up Euro league basket ball player Diesel or what ever he calls himself now. He went from like 7’1” down to 6’8”. What is 5 inches of height? What is a few inches added to your dick? If you act like your that tall, some people will believe you. When they see you the suggestion of how tall you say you are plays into their mental concept of you or perception if you will.

“You see, I don’t want to do good things, I want to do great things.” ~Alexander Joseph Luthor

I know Lewd Ferrigno personally.


Nicely put in lots of ways.

I have a different approach. I don’t think a photo proves that much. We’ve seen photo’s posted that have been badly altered in photochop and posted as proof, would we miss photo’s that aren’t badly done?

I understand that you might want to prove PE to doctors but even photo’s aren’t going to to that. They would be into measuring for themselves and even then you would need a fair pool of people and verification for it to be accepted. There’s no money for doctors in natural PE so who would pay for the research.

I myself have (officially) gained 1.75” and I think thats pretty damn good. I have no need to prove it with photo’s and I don’t give a damn if no one believes me because I carry the proof with me and use it and thats all I need.

Anyone claiming to have gained 3” in next to no time is clearly suspect, their words will tell all in time.


> Look at wrestlers, always mysteriously adding a few inches to height to look even meaner

Maybe its the propecia.

Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

mem, twatt,
I appreciate your candor & your thoughtful responses. And mem, 1¾ inch erect gains are impressive – and certainly believable (I was speaking mostly about the range above 2½ inches erect length and over 1¼ inches erect girth).

But I was not necessarily talking about a crusade to “prove” PE to the medical community – especially with my layman status. I realize that it would be a massive uphill struggle and could probably only be accomplished by other physicians – or at least scientific researchers. I was mostly focused on ourselves, and the credibility of the PE community amongst its members.

twatt, I hear you on the psychology reflections, loud & clear. But as PE’ers, we should be above that.

I’m mostly speaking about deceit and unrealistic expectations. For example, on the MOS paysite is a picture of Monte Pierce, with his earlobes stretched to the extreme. Its obviously intended as a metaphor for PE, even giving the impression that Mr. Pierce was officially recognized for the length of his earlobes. But the more I thought about it, I wanted to find a picture of Pierce when he was not pulling on his earlobes. I couldn’t find one, but I found even more enlightening information on the Guinness website:
type “earlobes” in the search field, then you’ll find the actual story of Monte Pierce:

Slingshot Ears
The farthest an American dime has been propelled by the ear lobe is 3 m 30.6 cm (10 ft 10.5 in), by Monte Pierce, of Bowling Green, Kentucky, USA, on the set of Guinness World Records: Primetime. If you give Monte Pierce an earful, he might just fling it back in your face - literally! He began pulling his ears when he was a kid after an earache nearly drove him bananas. Unable to kick the habit, he decided to put his extra long earlobes to good use and use them as a slingshot. Currently both of his earlobes hang just under an inch when not being pulled.
There are three main parts to a human ear - the outer, middle, and inner ear. The outer ear is made up of the auricle and external auditory canal, with the earlobe being part of the auricle. The auricle is the curved, fleshy, exterior bit of the ear and has no bone. The lower part of the auricle is the earlobe, which is made up of fat.”

So, he wasn’t recognized for the size of his earlobes, but for his ability to slingshot a dime with them, farther than anyone else. Furthermore, when in a relaxed state (“flaccid,” we would say), his lobes were less than an inch long. Obviously, his years of constant stretching did not “lengthen” his earlobes, but made them very flexible. Also, the article states, the earlobes (unlike the penis!) are comprised of fatty tissue.

Also, the much-touted photograph of the tribesman with the knotted snake-cock is a forgery, yet this is continually used as somehow “evidence” of the effectiveness of PE:
2001 Site - Tom Hubbard

And the Karamajong women don’t really “lengthen” their necks by gradually fitting more & more coils around their necks – they compress their clavicles/rib cage instead.

We have enough of this bullshit to deal with, we should strive for impeccable honesty amongst ourselves. This is what will aid us in the long run – being honest about PE, our gains, our goals, etc.

I read about a lot of guys who despair of making gains; truthfully, some won’t. A Canadian I used to chat with from the “other site” long ago, confided to me that he quit PE after more than a year because he never gained anything at all - despite his most diligent efforts.

I believe that guys being less-than-honest are retarding the growth of NPE technology, as well as discouraging some members. We need to view PE as a marathon, and be grateful for every slight gain - because it might end up being our last gains. I know that after much stretching, my unit becomes very rubbery, flexible. I can easily pull it far out, with minimal tension. Yet, that often does not translate into erect gains. The more honest we are, the more effective we’ll be in developing better technological advances in our hobby.

Thanks for the time.

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You guys will all have to live without a pic of me and mine.

I don’t know about the whole unlimited gains theory. I do believe that 99% of guys can gain an inch in they are dedicated. Plenty of guys gain nothing for 3, 4, or more months.

Running a Massive Co-Front.

Well Wad, what would you suggest? A daily/weekly compilation of photos like lil2big had (although I think that photo was monthly, and no i’m not looking it up tonight) in one of his old posts?

I’m asking this as someone whose at the beginning of his PE career. If this thread can work out some sort of acceptable way to show incremental progress, I know I’d be honored to be a guinea pig and I’m sure there are others out there who would as well.

Hi all.
Wadzilla, you bring up an interesting, if frustrating subject. I for one, have all the proof I need. Ive stretched, jelqed and massaged myself from just over 5” bpel to 6.5” bpel in a relatively short time (about 3 months).

However, in the last month I have gained zero. Absolutely nothing.
Naturally Im a little disappointed after finding easy early gains.However, for me at least, the truth is undeniable. PE works.

Sure there are some guys that PE for ages with little or nothing to show for their trouble. Why? Because Doctors, at large, dont believe it works and so because these “hard gainers” cannot go to someone who could assess their routine and make changes, it is virtually impossible for them to make gains.

Lets face it, everyone here was a newbie at some stage. How many of us would still be at it today, if after several months (or longer) of PEing with no gains?. I hazard a guess that very few indeed would. I for one would have quit a long time ago if it were not for my easy early gains.

PEing works. Period. I know it and for me, thats all that counts.
The problem is it doesnt work the same for everybody.And thats why doctors wont support it (plus the fact its free and they would make zero out of it).Regardless of any proof the community at large may show.

It really is a shame though. Look at how many PEing pay sites are out there making money of venerable, unsuspecting guys. Sure a lot of guys are “average” and simply want to be “above average”. But Im sure that there would be a lot of guys who are well below “average” and have a REAL self esteem problem which , in some cases, is ruining their lives.

Its for these poor guys I wish irrefutable proof could be produced so they to could have hope and know that there is a cure for their problems.

Some people do these exercises with less than a decent attempt. Either half heartedly or worse. Some people you could hand a wrench to and give them a full Chilton’s manual for their make and model and they still couldn’t get a spark plug out!

People understand different ways in learning. I could write a whole prefect treatsie on PE and put it on here. Would it help a few yes. But those that have a hard time grasping text with no illustration will be lost. It is the whole cold media/education vs hot media/education techniques. Think of the way multiple intelligences work. Some people can do this, some people can’t do that.

There is NO hands on instruction method to PE. No one comes to your house and has a Play-Do (R) rolling contest across the coffee table with you showing you how to do it. There is no hitting camp for PE like in Baseball.

So gains are severly affected by these matters.

“You see, I don’t want to do good things, I want to do great things.” ~Alexander Joseph Luthor

I know Lewd Ferrigno personally.

Re: Honesty

Originally posted by wadzilla
How could the medical community not be skeptical? I’m skeptical about claims over 2½ inches erect length gains. Why? Because I’ve never seen it! Not yet with myself, nor with anyone else providing convincing evidence.

What do you consider proof? Even pics can be questioned. The only proof that can offer you absolute reassurance is by gaining 2.5” for yourself. I’d actually prefer the medical community to be skeptical. I have the “Fight Club” approach, and I’m still hoping PE doesn’t go too mainstream.


I’ve read about claims of guys adding 3, 4, even 5 inches of erect length to their units – yet not one modicum of proof to substantiate those claims.

Yet, there’s no shortage of guys who claim to have gained 2½, 3½ – even 5 inches or more of erect length. However, not one of them has clearly & convincingly chronicled those gains with photographic evidence (or any evidence, for that matter). Rather strange, isn’t it?

If anyone is claiming 9” length or more, or gains above 2½ - 3 inches, I believe they owe it to us to show some evidence. If they refuse to, they have no right to be offended about disbelief.

Sorry bro, but I’m stuck with these gains. I can’t go back in time and take those pre-PE pics. I can’t offer any proof of starting at 4.5”, and I don’t have any pics of anything less than 7”. Even my Progress Report you can question, since it was started when I hit a plateau, and had started hanging at the time, hence the original name of the Progress Report at the ezboard, “YGuy Plateau”. I didn’t even start posting at PE forums, until I was 7”, I believe. Fortunately, PE is irreversible, so I can’t offer anything but 8” pics. So its out of my hands. Maybe one day I can claim 9” of length and take a picture with a ruler, so I’m able to prove it, if that is still considered proof.

Either way, I’m not offended. Criticism is always welcome. :)

"It doesn't matter where you start, it only matters where you end up."

This is a great post. I agree that if you don’t produce the evidence you have to accept that there will be disbelievers.

I’m with YGuy, I hope docs continue to deny that PE works, because less people will be doing it. I know most people will not put the effort in or quit after a few gainless months, but there will always be those that do gain.

I have pics showing a .75” difference, however no pics with a ruler. I took them for myself but I promise to post them if I gain over 2”, just for you Wadzilla.


Agreed Wad, I also think we need a standardized measuring method here. We all sit or all stand, on top or to the side…ect.

I agree we should all be honest with our measurements.

Since no one knows who I am on this site I have posted private info on an affair I would like to have, pictures of my penis both hard and soft and a routine I have shared with everyone here that explains how I pull on my penis.

I am here to get a bigger penis. My starting measurement was 5.75” bone pressed to the max. I was troubled not being 6” (which I thought was the average size) and started privately reading up on PE. I nearly bought the pills too. Still might actually now that some may be available at GNC. But that’s another story and another experiment.

I would post a pic with a ruler if I could hold it properly while taking a pic.

I have honestly gained 1” in 9 months of PE. Erect Bone Pressed Length. Maybe a 16th or even an 8th more.

I am proud of what I have accomplished. I have gotten positive comments from wifey (my PE is stealth – she doesn’t know about it) and feel more confident in bed.

I am currently wrapped up in stretching my penis to at least 7” bpel. As an adult who really never had a problem with confidence, my penis size, performance in bed or pleasing a woman I can honestly say PE could be considered a waste of time.

But I can also consider it to be an interesting way to learn about yourself, learn about your spouse and learn about other women’s response to you in a purely sexual way.

It’s fun to watch women glancing at your bulge. It’s fun to watch their reactions at the office. It’s a fair trade with women whose breasts you glance at (and they know you are looking, no matter how discrete you may be) to allow them to check you out too.

Even with all the hard work involved, the secret stretching after the shower, the occasional minor discomfort, the time involved… overall, I would have to say the best part of PE for me is the FUN I have watching my penis stretch, the FUN I have watching my female friends reactions (and the secret satisfaction when I notice them looking… and looking again) and the FUN I have fucking wifey.

Start April, 2003: 5.75" BPEL, 5.25" Girth Current: 7.125" BPEL, 5.5"+ Girth still trying...


I know personally it has taken me years to see results. And I imagine, like many if not most of the others here, I did not even think of taking “before” pictures. For one, I was not actually convinced this would work. And for two, if it did work, why would I want to have proof my dick used to be small? Even after I saw gains, I was not convinced this was really working. Heck, it was only last year, after 5 years of PE, that I actually came to grips with the reality that I actually was longer. Yes, I saw the ruler, but inside, I just was not believing it.

I don’t think anybody starts PE with the intention or desire to prove it’s effectiveness. We are driven to it by feelings of inadequacy, not science. We start emotionally weak and finish strong (if we stay the course). It’s not until we reach the strong point that “proving” PE to others is important to us as individuals. Until that point, we are just desperate for it to work for us. Guys with broken egos do not document the object of their shame and self-loathing.

Certainly some guys come here to prove this. They might take before pics. But will this mindset really give them the determination to continue, like I have, for 5 years? Several of the beginning ones with no gains at all? Hell no, only the obsessed will keep it going without results that long. The “scientists” who take the before pictures you seek will drop out in 3 or six months with all the proof they need that PE does not work.

I have taken some now, but that is after I already grew - so no use to you. Now, when I add another inch or so, in another few years, I can give you the picture you want. Of course, someone will claim I photo-shopped it or had a custom ruler made up. For the most part, I think you are desiring a phantom.

Wad, I think of PE not as a science. I don’t think anyone in the near future will be able to really “prove” it. No, to me PE is a religion. Complete with preachers and differing - and often warring - denominations. I joined the church, and I believe - and that is enough for me.

"In an honest Service there is thin Commons, low Wages, and hard labour; in this (Piracy), Plenty and Society, Pleasure and Ease, Liberty and Power; and who would not balance Creditor on this side when all the Hazard that is run for it, at worst, is only a sour Look or two at choaking. No, A merry Life and a short one, shall be my Motto."--Bartholomew Roberts

Wad. Many guys start this stuff not really believing that it would work. I know that I had serious doubts. Most are not willing to post their measurements untill they have gains to crow about, much less take a picture when their wee wee is still small. As regretable as it is. I don’t see this changing much. I don’t think I’d worry about the medical community. I think that online advertising and spam will eventually spread the word about pe. Hopefully some or maybe even most will realize that you can get a bigger dick for free.

Check it out guys, no need to have a big dick if you ain't gonna use it!!

I’m proud to be considered genuinely huge :) Unfortunately I don’t have any prove of my starting size. I can only remember measuring a couple of times 5-7 years ago 18.5cm (7.28”). I’m pretty sure it was bonepressed but I don’t know at what angle I measured it. I also never bothered to measure my girth way back then. I do have a couple pictures of when my dick was 20cm (7.87”) with a girth less or equal to 13.7cm (5.4”). They are all sharp (2048x1536) and I recently posted one of them. If anyone’s interested I can post more of them.

Btw at the age of 19 I still thought my dick was only 17cm (6.7”) I had measured this length a lot. Then while having sex for the second time my dick looked huge to me and at home I measured 18.5cm (7.28”). Obviously I didn’t gain 1.5 cm in a day, it was always there but I never got aroused enough. I do think it’s possible some of the big gainers experienced something similar after starting PE and thought it was a PE gain.

Personally I don’t believe DLD or RED.

Maybe if we start encouraging newbies to PE to take (tape)rulerpics of themselves in a couple of years we have the proof PE works.


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