Growers and showers

Besides the PE Data Site at Thunders indicating a strong correlation between pre pe flaccid and erect, here is a chart of separate doctor studies that also indicates "a good correlation".

http://www3.int erscience.wiley … 08565/HTMLSTART

I took a quick look at the TP data here: Growers Vs. Showers.

In my quote I spoke of pre pe only since that is what is usually being discussed when people talk about showers and growers in locker rooms, bulges, etc, people who have never PEed. I’m under the impression you clumped pre pe and post pe all together. I never looked into post pe not only because the belief that growers catch up with showers is about people who have never done penis exercises, but also because many PEers say their flaccid gains come first and tend to exceed their erect gains and that might skew the results if one group gains more in flaccid from pe than the other which I hadn’t looked into.

Also, it appears you clumped a group of sizes together as growers and group of sizes together as showers. What size and under did you decide were growers and what size and over did you decide were showers? I only looked into pre pe 3 inch flaccids vs pre pe 5 inch flaccids and the results were the 3" flaccids became pre pe 5.75" erect and 5" flaccids became pre pe 7.25". In this distinct comparison it wasn’t all that close, but "grower" 3" flaccids did close the gap from 2" to 1.5". I don’t think I went through all of the threes and fives since I was using pencil and paper to compare with and though I have some understanding of Excel it’s not all that good an understanding so I did it the old fashion way.

It was such a strong indication so I never got around to comparing any other sizes.

This chart is also an indication that a correlation exists:
http://www3.int erscience.wiley … 08565/HTMLSTART

Only looking at the studies’ lines in the chart that show both flaccid (unstretched) and erect and converting the cms to inches and then summarizing it in order from longest flaccid group to shortest flaccid group:

—————————-Flaccid—————————Erect——————Gain
Homosexuals———-4.1"——————————-6.5"——————-2.4"
Heterosexuals———3.9"———————————6.1"——————2.2"
Caucasian—————3.8" ——————————-6.1"——————2.3"
German w/ED———-3.6"———————————5.6"——————2"
White/Black/Asian—-3.5"———————————5.1"—————-1.6"
German——————-3.4"———————————5.7"—————-2.3"
Turkish——————-2.7"———————————5.0"—————-2.3"

Not much difference in amount gained per group. The beginning differences between the flaccids pretty much remains as such when erect.

You have the erect difference much closer than my study indicated, and what the above studies indicate. If you did clump post pe in with pre pe is there a way you could get the program you used to just analyze pre pe and perhaps also sort the flaccids more distinctively?

It was such a strong indication so I never got around to comparing any other sizes.

This chart is also an indication that a correlation exists:
http://www3.int erscience.wiley … 08565/HTMLSTART

Only looking at the studies’ lines in the chart that show both flaccid (unstretched) and erect and converting the cms to inches and then summarizing it in order from longest flaccid group to shortest flaccid group:

—————————-Flaccid—————————Erect——————Gain
Homosexuals———-4.1"——————————-6.5"——————-2.4"
Heterosexuals———3.9"———————————6.1"——————2.2"
Caucasian—————3.8" ——————————-6.1"——————2.3"
German w/ED———-3.6"———————————5.6"——————2"
White/Black/Asian—-3.5"———————————5.1"—————-1.6"
German——————-3.4"———————————5.7"—————-2.3"
Turkish——————-2.7"———————————5.0"—————-2.3"

Not much difference in amount gained per group. The beginning differences between the flaccids pretty much remains as such when erect.

You have the erect difference much closer than my study indicated, and what the above studies indicate. If you did clump post pe in with pre pe is there a way you could get the program you used to just analyze pre pe and perhaps also sort the flaccids more distinctively?

Where does shower begin and grower end?

Where does shower begin and grower end?

The tunica is an envelope of tough connective tissue or fascia that consists of mainly two different types of fibers: collagenous and elastic. The tunica generally has two layers, one with the fibers aligned mainly lengthwise (longitudinal) and the other with fibers aligned circumferentially.

Collagen fibers are relatively inelastic like a tendon. They extend to a predetermined length and not much more regardless of tensile force (until they rupture). Elastin fibers are elastic (duh), and shorten and relengthen readily. The penis is basically an envelope consisting of a sheet of fibrous tissue which gets filled to capacity hydrodynamically (if the hydraulics are working well). The size is largely limited by the inelastic collagen of the tunica if they are stretched to maximum length by sufficient hydraulic pressure in the corpora.

When flaccid, penis size is partly determined by the elastic fibers which tend to shorten and cause the collagenous fibers with which they are intertwined to “pleat up”. I suspect that the ratio of flaccid size to erect size depends partly on the ratio of elastin to collagen fibers in the tunica, and partly to the degree of vasodilatation in the penile arteries.

The term showers OR growers is rather limiting in scope. We really don’t have enough categories. When we speak of erect sizes we break it down into more categories -small, average, above average, big, huge. You aren’t the only one to be unsure, it really hasn’t received the level of detailed studied discussion needed to help determine.

Stevie31 created a nbp flaccid poll that can be used to help with this.
Pre-PE FLACCID Length (NBP, Non-Stretched)

In his erect polls on length and girth I came to realise that by looking at sudden percentage jumps one could get a good idea of where categories began and stopped since his poll results appeared to fall in line well with what we had determined through various studies was average (his erect length poll is bpel but when one subtracts the average 1" from each catergory the result falls well in line with Para-Goomba’s thread in which many of the doctor studies were nbp). So now that I think about it this sudden percentage change indicator can be used to help determine showers.

Taking a look at Stevie’s flaccid poll, that I linked to above, the percentages shown for 4.26" -5.25" begin a sudden change from the percentages of the sizes 2.76" - 4.25". However, 5.26" and above begins yet another jump down in percentage, also indicating shower but in a stronger sense of the term. In a broad sense - above 4.26" could be said to actually begin "shower", but 5.26", and up, is where major showing begins.

Invisible, I condensed your data results posted in that thread into a chart. In order to make a more direct comparison of nbpfl vs nbpel I’ve changed the bpel results to nbpel by subtracting 1” from the bp erect lengths, based on a couple of polls at Thunders which have indicated the average fatpad to be about 1”. This conversion to nbp should work well enough with the averages and mediums though may not fit so well the maximums and minimums but all one has to do is keep in mind that the nbpel minimums and maximums could be more or less, or simply add the 1” back and consider those as bpel.
The minimum erect girths appear to be where someone entered thickness instead of girth. The thickness entries will have pulled down the averages and mediums for girth, but since only a few have done so it’s just a very small effect.

nbpfl———————1”-2”———-2”-3”————3”-4”————-4”-5”————-5”-6”———-6”-7”———-7”-8”
Number of Subjects-25————-163————-757—————841—————327————-74—————15
Average nbpel——-3.73”————4.49”————4.99”————5.56”————-6.21”———-6.91”———-7.01”
Medium nbpel———3.5”————-4.5”————-5”—————5.5”—————-6.2”————-7”—————7.25”
Maximum nbpel——5.75”————6.25”————8.6”—————8”——————8.6”————8.875”———8.528”
Minimum nbpel——-2”—————2.75”————-3”—————-3.75”—————4”————-4.75”————6.5”
Average eg————4.03”———-4.59”————-4.86”————5.12”————-5.49”———-5.79”————5.29”
Medium eg————-4”—————4.75”————4.9”—————5”——————5.5”————6”—————-5.5”
Maximum eg———-5.8”————-6”—————-7.28”————7”——————-7.5”————7.5”————-6.5”
Minimum eg————1”—————1”—————-1.5”—————1.3”—————-4.25”———-4”—————-2”
Average growth—-254.6%——-128.3%———78.7%———-54.1%————-38.9%———-28%————11.1%
Maximum growth—475%————262.5%——-183.3%——-112.5%————-80.0%———-64%————32.3%
Minimum growth—-142.3%———60%————14.3%———-5.3%—————1.8%————5.3%————8.3%

Perhaps some also entered their bpsfl (bone pressed stretched flaccid length)