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Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
I’m not buying it.

Me neither.


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by SteadyGains

This can disproved by demonstration very easily. Even if you think a portion of the increase is fluid, the increase is substantial, not “very very small”.

In particular in clamping. No fluid build up, substantial girth/radius increase.


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
The reason why drugs act differently in different individuals results at least to a substantial parts from genetics (more precisely: single nucleotide polymorphisms). On that basis one can define hyperfast, fast, normal and slow metabolizers. At the same dose, fast, and more so hyperfast experience little or no effect, while slow metabolizers may exhibit severe side effects.

(Just for the records).


I totally and unassailably agree. I couldn’t have explained pharmacogenetics anywhere near as well myself. Thank you. We lost everyone else, but thank you again.

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
Certainly, genetics also influence pe-success, and - on a more differentiated basis - may explain why one individual benefits more or less from a given exercise.

Extreme examples in whom pe should work wonders should be people with diseases like EHLERS-DANLOS MARFAN-syndrome.


It is ashamed for us that there are no reports of the penis in males suffering from this very unusual connective tissue disorder. The individuals with Marfan Syndrome have very long limbs and fingers and have major problems with the large arteries which can lead to sudden death. They are “double-jointed”, to say the least. They have problems with connective tissue throughout the body with an unusual ratio of collagen I to collagen III fibers. They also have problems with elastic fibers. The fibers a moth-eaten appearance under the microscope and it affects the normal elastic tissue function.

I would expect that this “middle appendage” might be longer and PE might have an immense effect on length and girth. Just proposing.

I agree as you say, multiple factors play a role in the outward presentation of our dick (it does not have to be some bizarre or rare disease to have an affect on the penis) and these probably also affect the response to PE.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Interesting concept.hmmmm. :-K

Pumpers generally believe it’s best to go in hard, but what your saying sound plausible, I’m gonna try it, thanks!

Sparky and pudendum - I don’t think it makes much difference whether you go in the tube erected or not. Even if you start with a perfect erection (unless you are stimulating your self permanently) you will loose peak erection in the tube after a while. At that moment, pudendum’s mechanisms could start to work (if they work).

The reason why they could work is that at lower erection levels the dick is open to the remainin circulation, while it is closed more or less at peak erection. If that really is so, then it would in fact be a waste of time to start erected and wait until the erection diminishes in the tube.

Am I getting your idea, pudendum?


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
Sparky and pudendum - I don’t think it makes much difference whether you go in the tube erected or not. Even if you start with a perfect erection (unless you are stimulating your self permanently) you will loose peak erection in the tube after a while. At that moment, pudendum’s mechanisms could start to work (if they work).

The reason why they could work is that at lower erection levels the dick is open to the remainin circulation, while it is closed more or less at peak erection. If that really is so, then it would in fact be a waste of time to start erected and wait until the erection diminishes in the tube.

Am I getting your idea, pudendum?


That is exactly what I’m trying to say with regards to the penis at peak erection.

You pumpers out there are going to have to add your experience here. Is there any difference between the expansion of your penis in the chamber when you reach your maximum expansion (not necessarily peak erection) if you start at a lower erections and expand or at peak erection and subside? And can you really tell the difference in feeling? Can you tell whether there is a difference in fluid build up?

This information will help me to understand this better.

Originally Posted by sparkyx

Did you ever use the multiple clamp method, as we had discussed? If you did, did you use multiple clamps spaced out over the length of the erection, or did you just move the clamp to different areas?

Yes, spaced at ~0.75” clamp edge to clamp edge, with a double at the base. Have since moved to fast-release hose-clamps, same configuration including double at base. Use 2.125” bicycle inner tube sections beneath clamps.

Originally Posted by sparkyx

AND…if you used this method, what results did you see? Did you use this in a IPR format?

0.063”-0.125” circumference increase, twice. Yes.

xenolith - I’m trying to get a better understand your take on the remodeling of connective tissue with multiple overlapping constructively interfering ellipsoidal interaction volumes. What level of erection are you using? Are you sure that you’re invoking injury requiring IPR (which is simply tension-induced connective tissue remodeling with inflammatory cell invasion) or is it just tension-induced remodeling without injury? The reason I ask you level of erection, because I think it makes a difference whether you induce injury or not. Just curious.

Hi xeno :wave:

Originally Posted by xenolith
..fast-release hose-clamps..

Que?


"Drilla Knows Ass" - Para-Goomba

Starter Pics/Clamping Pics

Originally Posted by pudendum

xenolith - I’m trying to get a better understand your take on the remodeling of connective tissue with multiple overlapping constructively interfering ellipsoidal interaction volumes. What level of erection are you using? Are you sure that you’re invoking injury requiring IPR (which is simply tension-induced connective tissue remodeling with inflammatory cell invasion) or is it just tension-induced remodeling without injury? The reason I ask you level of erection, because I think it makes a difference whether you induce injury or not. Just curious.

BIG erection. Can’t be sure of success, but injury is my intent. No more than proliferation and remodeling is though.

Originally Posted by drilla9

Que?

It’s the ones with the twist handles that facilitate turning by hand rather than requiring a screwdriver. Like Ike’s dime twist but OTC. WalMart’s got ‘em. Check Auto.

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
The cable clamp is too big, it won’t fit in most size tubes.

You would have to use some other kind of clamp, a very tight elastic cock ring has been used by others.

CAUTION, of course.

No, sorry for not being more clear…I meant to skip pumping and try clamping at partial erect levels, then pull, twist or bend ( with great caution, only by experienced vets). I don’t mean clamp inside of the cylinder under vacuum.

Originally Posted by xenolith

It’s the ones with the twist handles that facilitate turning by hand rather than requiring a screwdriver. Like Ike’s dime twist but OTC. WalMart’s got ‘em. Check Auto.

What benefit do you see in these over the Cable clamps?

By the way, thanks for the reply…nice to be having an exchange again.

Originally Posted by xenolith
Yes, spaced at ~0.75” clamp edge to clamp edge, with a double at the base. Have since moved to fast-release hose-clamps, same configuration including double at base. Use 2.125” bicycle inner tube sections beneath clamps.

0.063”-0.125” circumference increase, twice. Yes.

What time frame and repetition was needed to see the increases for both results. Was this one macro cycle each of the IPR protocol? How much time did you take for the R phase?

Originally Posted by sparkyx

What benefit do you see in these over the Cable clamps?

The ability to control (and increase) delta D (change in diameter) relative to cable clamps. This is a benefit relative to cable clamps because the theoretical magnitude of deformation in the radial (girth) and longitudinal (length) directions are functions of delta D. In my experience, although predicted mechanistically, I’ve not experienced longitudinal deformation from this practice. Radial has been reliable. Would be remiss if didn’t mention the pain reality. Most will find it significant. Think fascia displacement. It hurts.

Originally Posted by sparkyx

What time frame and repetition was needed to see the increases for both results. Was this one macro cycle each of the IPR protocol? How much time did you take for the R phase?

Same as with length training, two weeks. Yes. 2 and 3 months respectively.


Last edited by xenolith : 01-12-2008 at .

Originally Posted by xenolith
The ability to control (and increase) delta D (change in diameter) relative to cable clamps. This is a benefit relative to cable clamps because the theoretical magnitude of elongation in the radial (girth) and longitudinal (length) directions are functions of delta D. In my experience, although predicted mechanistically, I’ve not experienced longitudinal deformation from this practice. Radial has been reliable.


Tell me if I’m understanding you correctly. I see 2 major stresses with the multiple overlapping constructively interfering ellipsoidal interaction volumes method. One is the elliptical strain you describe in the tunica at the peri-clamp zone (as in the pictures you previously posted). I agree that this would generate both longitudinal and circumferential stresses within the ellipse in this zone. Even if you move the clamp around, this zone will be small in respect to the whole penis.

The second and larger stress is the pressure in the rest of the penis induced by the clamp. This pressure increases wall tension. The pressure is uniform against all the surfaces of the tunica from the cavernosa (principles of hydraulic pressure). Within the cylinders that are the cavernosa, the predominant tension will be radial along its length, as you describe. I can imagine longitudinal oriented tension at the glans end of the tunica where pressure reflects against the long axis of the cavernosa.

In my estimation it is not surprising that longitudinal deformation is minimal. Am I reading you correctly on this?

Originally Posted by xenolith
Would be remiss if didn’t mention the pain reality. Most will find it significant. Think fascia displacement. It hurts.


Does the pain accelerate over the course of the clamping, particularly in the minutes before you remove it?

There are several components to the pain of intense clamping on a very erect penis. First, there is compression pain itself which includes input from skin, subcutaneous tissue (between skin and tunica) and the tunica itself (and possibly cavenosa structures as well). The elliptical stress gives you the fascial displacement you’re describing. There is also the pressure/radius tunica expansion in the penis away from the clamp. The firm compression of the clamp against the penis completely obstructs blood flow to the skin under the clamp. Over time, this will lead to oxygen deprivation (ischemia) to this specific zone which will develop pain over the time of the clamping (starting gradually and increasing quickly). (Inflate a blood pressure cuff on your arm over arterial pressure, say at 160 - 200 mm Hg and leave it inflated for as long as you can take it. You’ll find that the pain will ascend after a few minutes until it becomes rapidly unbearable. This is ischemic pain.)

I can believe that it becomes very painful. It sounds like it’s not for the faint of heart.

Originally Posted by pudendum
Tell me if I’m understanding you correctly. I see 2 major stresses with the multiple overlapping constructively interfering ellipsoidal interaction volumes method. One is the elliptical strain you describe in the tunica at the peri-clamp zone (as in the pictures you previously posted). I agree that this would generate both longitudinal and circumferential stresses within the ellipse in this zone. Even if you move the clamp around, this zone will be small in respect to the whole penis.

The second and larger stress is the pressure in the rest of the penis induced by the clamp. This pressure increases wall tension. The pressure is uniform against all the surfaces of the tunica from the cavernosa (principles of hydraulic pressure). Within the cylinders that are the cavernosa, the predominant tension will be radial along its length, as you describe. I can imagine longitudinal oriented tension at the glans end of the tunica where pressure reflects against the long axis of the cavernosa.

In my estimation it is not surprising that longitudinal deformation is minimal. Am I reading you correctly on this?


Yes.

Originally Posted by pudendum
Does the pain accelerate over the course of the clamping, particularly in the minutes before you remove it?


No. The limiting factor is my ability to maintain fluid pressures sufficient to maintain pressure. Perhaps three basal clamps are in order.

Originally Posted by pudendum
There are several components to the pain of intense clamping on a very erect penis. First, there is compression pain itself which includes input from skin, subcutaneous tissue (between skin and tunica) and the tunica itself (and possibly cavenosa structures as well). The elliptical stress gives you the fascial displacement you’re describing. There is also the pressure/radius tunica expansion in the penis away from the clamp. The firm compression of the clamp against the penis completely obstructs blood flow to the skin under the clamp. Over time, this will lead to oxygen deprivation (ischemia) to this specific zone which will develop pain over the time of the clamping (starting gradually and increasing quickly). (Inflate a blood pressure cuff on your arm over arterial pressure, say at 160 - 200 mm Hg and leave it inflated for as long as you can take it. You’ll find that the pain will ascend after a few minutes until it becomes rapidly unbearable. This is ischemic pain.)

I can believe that it becomes very painful. It sounds like it’s not for the faint of heart.


None of this is new information to me. I know all about ischemic pain. That’s not what I’ve referred to. I’m talking about facial displacement pain. I’ve developed a strong BS muscle. I can clamp down my 6.126” EG to half that circumference (using two hose clamps) and still maintain full erection in my CCs and CS through that 3.1” constriction. While doing so, the interstitial EG approaches 6.5”. That’s a bunch o’ deformation. I’ve not bothered to do detailed analysis of this radial deformation because I never thought I’d be sharing my experience with this Forum again.

Lucky You.


Last edited by xenolith : 01-12-2008 at .
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