Thunder's Place

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Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

I’ve seen pressures between 3 and 6 In/Hg recommended—now 6 In/Hg appears to be the far end of this range and likely too much for possible growth—at least so goes the theory.

Now what would be the best bet for negative pressure (Vacuum) ? Between 3 - 4 In/Hg ?

This is a very interesting talk, probably one of the best here on Thunder’s place.

I have both clamps and a quality pump and tube, but haven’t really started on girth work, at least not in a consistent manner. I’m drawn to use pumping more because of the greater margin for errors and jelquing too, since Pendulum (as well as others) appears to have derived nice growth out of this method.

Having said that, clamping also is enticing, but one has to seriously weigh risk vs benefit here.

Chip - In the interest of full disclosure, I haven’t pumped or clamped. So I’m only talking mechanism, not personal success.

Originally Posted by pudendum
Chip - In the interest of full disclosure, I haven’t pumped or clamped. So I’m only talking mechanism, not personal success.

But the closest we come to understanding how it works (or how our penises grow) the better and admittedly faster we can get to success—at least, it can help towards this end.

I do not want to hijack this thread, but how long have you jelqued for and what were your former stats and current’s ? Just curious, as many here claim jelquing has done the trick for them.

Cheers

Originally Posted by chip douglas

I do not want to hijack this thread, but how long have you jelqued for and what were your former stats and current’s ? Just curious, as many here claim jelquing has done the trick for them.

I have been remiss in updating my stats. I’ve been jelqing and using an extender since April, I’ve added tunica stretches, slinkies, squeezes, etc as I advanced beyond the Newbie routine. I started at about 6 X 5 (BPEL). I have taken several extended decon breaks. My last measurements were 7.3 X 6.1 (BPEL). I have started Mem’s Momentous routine in the last 2 weeks. I have already seen subjective increases. I’ll post my increases on my stat page.

I must say this is pretty good—thumps up ! Thanks for posting them.

I’ve been using the Peloop since April as well, maybe it is.:)

I’ll try a pump. Why don’t you try a magnet. You get off cheaper. :) :)

Originally Posted by pudendum
First I have no irons in the fire on this issue as I neither pump or clamp….

Neither do I…

Originally Posted by pudendum
….A tissue, like let say the tunica, does not have the same compliance throughout its stretch to its maximum. This means as the tunica approaches its maximum distention its ability to stretch further decrease to a very low level, that is its compliance is very low.

So what’s this got to do with clamping or pumping, you ask? A lot. I know that when I now reach full erection, my penis is hard as a rock. The tunica is at maximum distention (at least for now). The cavernosa are maximally filled with blood. The Ischiocavernosus muscles are contracting. The cavernosa pressure is 200 - 300 mmHg. No additional blood can enter the cavernosa because the pressure inside exceeds arterial pressure.

So how do you increase the tension on the tunica to achieve stress induces circumferential expansion?

I have problems understanding how a negative pressure will cause further distension of the tunica, the target of your endeavor. At maximum erection with a very rock hard tunica, pumping at pressures not exceeding medically recommended levels (200 - 250 mmHg, 270 - 340 cmH2O, 7.9 - 9.8 inHg) would have minimal effect. You will not be able to elevate the tunica to increase blood volume in the cavernosa as the pressure will still be above arterial pressure (unless you’ve got untreated very high blood pressure). I see pumping only effect at this degree of erections to be on the tissue under the skin and over the tunica (subcutaneous tissue) filled with very loose connective tissue.

Now I am not saying that pumping doesn’t have effect at lower levels of erection (as we know that jelqing does). And this maybe where potential gains may occur. I just have problems visualizing an almost non-compliant tunica being affect by negative pressure at maximum erection. I believe you’d have as much success pumping a glass penis dildo. If I’m misinformed, please let me know.

As for clamping, when placing a clamp on the penis base at max erection, you are also not adding new blood to the cavernosa (though you are moving blood away from the clamp site, probably both directions; toward and away from the head). The effect is an increase in cavernosa pressure to God only knows how high. With a low compliant tunica, the effect on pressure would be like trying to put more fluid in a copper pipe. The pressure sky-rockets. This definitely puts a significant tension on the tunica which will probably cause tension-induced fibroblast stimulation for collagen remodeling; hopefully at a greater girth.

This is a direct effect internally vs. an indirect effect with negative pressure externally. At this very specific point in an erection, I would believe that clamping has an advantage over pumping. Again, this does not mean that at lower levels of erection, the situation may be different.

pudendum,
You have very explicitly stated the very thing I’ve said (or tried to say) about this matter for quite some time [at least a few years]. I’ve read so many guys state that clamping (or pumping) gives them a “110%” erection, etc. And I’ve always maintained that this was impossible. Or they think that the big liquid woody they get out of the tube is due to “more blood” entering the penis from pumping…

Impossible! (unless, of course, you suffer from E.D. issues - and that’s why you pump).

There is no such thing as any erection beyond 100% - whether you pump, clamp, pump with clamps on, wrap a clamp around your pump….or stick the pump up your ass, etc.

And regarding your comment, “I see pumping only effect at this degree of erections to be on the tissue under the skin and over the tunica (subcutaneous tissue) filled with very loose connective tissue.”

I was alluding exactly to this here, in this forum, at least 2 or 3 years ago.

And you made a very keen observation regarding the inability of more blood to be forced into the chambers once it has exceeded arterial pressure.

And on this matter - “I just have problems visualizing an almost non-compliant tunica being affect by negative pressure at maximum erection. I believe you'd have as much success pumping a glass penis dildo. If I'm misinformed, please let me know.”……..no, your not misinformed.

And I also cannot see how negative pressures could somehow cause further distension of the tunica.

And though I was not using the specific language of compliance, I also wrote that I thought gain potential was at it’s very lowest at full erection (your metaphor of pumping a glass dildo is excellent - the same would apply to jelqing a glass dildo). I used a phrase something akin to “rolling pressures” (or something of the sort). What I was referring to was our ability to place momentary high levels of stress against a (relatively compliant tunica of 70-85% erection) in a less-than-erect penis. And as this force was moving - like a bulge in a garden hose in a cartoon - in a sub-erect penis, the tunica was never in a state of very low compliance [to use your language]. Therefore, you were concentrating (isolating) these stresses in motion along the length of the shaft (“rolling tension”) without incurring the rigid, unforgiving tunica of a full erection.

Your choice of words was better, more concise……….but the same concept. I thought your post was excellent.

But let’s take this a step further…if (as we seem to agree) that optimal gains come at relatively lower levels of erection, then what does that say about, (1) clamping, (2) erect pumping, (3) erect bends, etc.????

I suspect that it might say, “Enormous risk, minimal possible return.”

Originally Posted by pudendum
I’ve been using the Peloop since April as well, maybe it is.:)

I’ll try a pump. Why don’t you try a magnet. You get off cheaper. :) :)

A worthless therapy is a waste of money, whether it is cheap or extensive. The only difference is that in the first case you waste less money.


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by wadzilla
Neither do I..

Pudendum,
You have very explicitly stated the very thing I’ve said (or tried to say) about this matter for quite some time [at least a few years]. I’ve read so many guys state that clamping (or pumping) gives them a “110%” erection, etc. And I’ve always maintained that this was impossible. Or they think that the big liquid woody they get out of the tube is due to “more blood” entering the penis from pumping..

Impossible! (Unless, of course, you suffer from E.D. Issues - and that’s why you pump).

There is no such thing as any erection beyond 100% - whether you pump, clamp, pump with clamps on, wrap a clamp around your pump.or stick the pump up your ass, etc.

And regarding your comment, “I see pumping only effect at this degree of erections to be on the tissue under the skin and over the tunica (subcutaneous tissue) filled with very loose connective tissue.”

I was alluding exactly to this here, in this forum, at least 2 or 3 years ago.

And you made a very keen observation regarding the inability of more blood to be forced into the chambers once it has exceeded arterial pressure.

And on this matter - “I just have problems visualizing an almost non-compliant tunica being affect by negative pressure at maximum erection. I believe you'd have as much success pumping a glass penis dildo. If I'm misinformed, please let me know.”.no, your not misinformed.

And I also cannot see how negative pressures could somehow cause further distension of the tunica.

And though I was not using the specific language of compliance, I also wrote that I thought gain potential was at it’s very lowest at full erection (your metaphor of pumping a glass dildo is excellent - the same would apply to jelqing a glass dildo). I used a phrase something akin to “rolling pressures” (or something of the sort). What I was referring to was our ability to place momentary high levels of stress against a (relatively compliant tunica of 70-85% erection) in a less-than-erect penis. And as this force was moving - like a bulge in a garden hose in a cartoon - in a sub-erect penis, the tunica was never in a state of very low compliance [to use your language]. Therefore, you were concentrating (isolating) these stresses in motion along the length of the shaft (“rolling tension”) without incurring the rigid, unforgiving tunica of a full erection.

Your choice of words was better, more concise.but the same concept. I thought your post was excellent.

But let’s take this a step further.if (as we seem to agree) that optimal gains come at relatively lower levels of erection, then what does that say about, (1) clamping, (2) erect pumping, (3) erect bends, etc.?

I suspect that it might say, “Enormous risk, minimal possible return.”

Ok wad, you said it before. Remember, when I started the thread, I mentioned that much has been discussed before. We are not trying to “reinvent the wheel” here. We are just “pe-junkies” and want to exchange our thoughts in a live discussion rather than browsing through tons of old threads (90 % of which are more or less highly concentrated bs).

Regarding your final question, which is probably the most interesting part of your post since it redirects our attention from our academic-intellectual exchange (mental masturbation as some might look at it) to the more practical aspects.

I have to work a little in between my posts, but I will come back to that in a few moments because I just had a potentially good idea just not the time to post it


Later - ttt

Ok - I’m back.

Wad - implications, on the basis of our discussions in this thread and your previous discussions, as I see it right now could be:

Also contesting your idea that there is no such thing as 102% erection: it exists, I know from clamping that my girth increases beyond that of a 100% erection and I know from high pressure pumping in a tight tube (up to 20 inch Hg; severe discoloration as a side effect, from a single experiment) (newbies: NOT RECOMMENDED) that my erected length can be 5/8th of an inch compared to a natural 100% erection.

Also inspired by jelqing, which applies what I would term “dynamic stress”.

1. Clamping: using one base clamp and another one switching positions along the length of one’s shaft would achieve a dynamic components and walking up and down the dynamic compliance curve to the point were no further distensibility can occur becasue compliance is close to zero but where wall stress can be further increased which probably acts as a major stimulus for groth.

2. Pumping: dynamic pumping can be achieved using a programmable hydraulic pump (mentioned in this forum, I think remek and others wrote about it. A little more cumbersome but equally good should be manual pressure variations in the pump.

3. Hanging: dynamic hanging could be a new avenue. A little motor would be super cool for that purpose, but it could also be achieved manually with a little bit of geniality.

And don’t forget, if you let allow me to quote one of the giants of PE: “Never let it turtle”. Btw - who has the copy right for that one?

And: the Peter Dick method: remember? - Never let it “know” what the plan s for the upcoming workout.


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
Also contesting your idea that there is no such thing as 102% erection: it exists, I know from clamping that my girth increases beyond that of a 100% erection and I know from high pressure pumping in a tight tube (up to 20 inch Hg; severe discoloration as a side effect, from a single experiment)….And don’t forget, if you let allow me to quote one of the giants of PE: “Never let it turtle”. Btw - who has the copy right for that one?

In the first place, I wasn’t referring to my own earlier posts on this subject to “claim credit” for the concept. I was merely mentioning that I had posted those same thoughts (but not as effectively worded) quite some time ago, but it was not well-received then….and that same concept is apparently not well-received now. :)

And if you’ll read what I’ve posted more recently (that nobody denies that pumping - and, yes, clamping - can produce short-term “enlargement”), then you’ll see that your own pumping experiences have no bearing on my contention that you cannot achieve an *erection* beyond 100%.

Perhaps I took for granted what others might think regarding the term “erection.” I am not talking about subcutaneous fluid buildup (that’s more akin to “swelling”). I’m talking about the mechanism of a true erection. So once your CC/CS has fully filled with blood - i.e., “100%,” then there ain’t no more. And, by the way, this state of true 100% does not require a pump or clamp in a healthy man - just extreme arousal and, perhaps, some “edging.” But it’s an all-natural process. Any size you get beyond that (in the short term, of course) is liquid - and that liquid is not blood.

So many guys here seem to think that if you can force the penis to become harder & harder & harder - i.e., clamps, pumps, multiple clamps, etc. - that that’s going to somehow “trigger growth.” I would argue that the harder a penis becomes, the more non-compliant the tunica becomes, therefore the more difficult it becomes to achieve growth.

And you seem to misunderstand the admonition to avoid turtling. That has nothing to do with your mythical “102% erections.” It’s simply the concept of trying to maintain semi-inflation (“plumpness”) for as long as possible post-workout. And, guess what….that’s in a non-fully-erect penis (with, therefore, a more compliant tunica)…..at the risk of drawer further sarcasm from you, YES, I also wrote about that before: mild to moderate, long-term stresses being uniformly maintained against the tunica in a semi-erect state slowly deforming the tunica - or causing “creep,” whichever word you prefer. :)

Originally Posted by ticktickticker

A worthless therapy is a waste of money, whether it is cheap or extensive. The only difference is that in the first case you waste less money.

I think the jury’s still out on this one. Something tells me you and I are going to agree to disagree on this one. Thunder too I’ll bet, though he might be cracking.

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