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# Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

Originally Posted by mravg
Triple T, I think that Physiology, in general, is indeed very interesting. I don’t know how I said it in my previous post, but I intended to say that I am not well educated in penis physiology, not that it isn’t interesting.
In fact, I have always been interested in the medical sciences, and found a way to combine my engineering studies with medicine when I went to graduate school for biomedical engineering. I wasn’t a good enough student to be a doctor, but if I had to do it all over again, that is probably what I would want to be. I envy guys like you and pudendum.

A multi pronged approach from many different angles will be required for us to get to the bottom of the question of why does PE work. I’m not an engineer (my father and one of my sons is; it skipped a generation). When I went to graduate school, I had to fight my way through the mathematics of physiology (particularly biophysics). Biomedical engineering applies engineering principles to biological systems. I envy your working knowledge of engineering and its biological applications, because I don’t have it.

College credit at the Thunder Place University of Penislology will be up Professor Thunder.

I’m sorry, but can’t resist to think about what I posted at page 9 of this thread.
pudendum observed that, given the low compliance of tunica, no more blood can’t be stored inside the penis when it’s (near or) at peak erection. Also, ttt said the the law of incompressiblity of fluids hurt to that higher blood-pressure against tunica walls. Assuming that I’ve well understood what are you saying (a big if), I have to disagree.

I’ve never heard that fluids are not compressible; by what I know, everything could be compressed, given the right amount of force. Limits to that compression (and reduction of volume) are given (at least in my mind) by:
a) how much “matter” or “substance” the specific tissue contains;
b) elasticity of that “matter” or “substance”.

A low compliance is exactly the reason why (look at formula I gave) pressure is rising when more blood is forced inside the cylinder (penis): isn’t pressure = force/area? Compliance is the obstacle to a more volume-lower pressure accommodation; but the force inside tunica is rising, because blood is forced inside penis despite compliance (and this is the reason why clamping is done).

This higher blood/volume ratio is, also, the reason why clampers experience that typical “hardest than ever” erections, if this is someway clear.

Deformation is qualitative change, was said: but, when symbols are replaced with known entities (and their system units), we can see that we can obtain a meaningful measure of that deformation.

So, I can’t see nothing wrong in what I posted: skin (and tissue between tunica and skin) are more subject to volumetric changes, when pumping, then tunica; this lead to loose skin etc. etc.. When clamping, this effect on these other tissues is not (or in less degree) happening.

Of course, as I said, by no means I’m negating that others factors, related to penis anatomy and erectile physiology, have to be regarded for explicating the differences between clamping and pumping.

Hope this is clear, I’m sorry if don’t.

P.S.: I’m gonna searching something related to this point, after job-hours. But if an engineer/physicist could aid clarifying what I’m saying (and maybe explicating if and where it’s wrong, of course), I would be really obliged.

Originally Posted by pudendum
Oh ye of little faith.

In a very quick search on Science Citation Index, I found several studies that demonstrate increased blood flow with static magnetic fields. Here is a conclusion of a 2007 review article that reviewed the studies on magnetic field effects on skin capillary blood flow:

A review of the literature involving the effects of MFs [magnetic fields] on microcirculation and microvasculature [capillaries] indicates that nearly half of the cited experiments (10 of 27 studies) report either a vasodilatory effect [vessels get larger] due to MF exposure, increased blood flow, or increased blood pressure. Conversely, three of the 27 studies report a decrease in blood perfusion/pressure. Four studies report no effect. The remaining ten studies found that MF exposure could trigger either vasodilation or vasoconstriction [vessels get smaller] depending on the initial tone of the vessel.

McKay JC, et al. A Literature Review:The Effects of Magnetic Field Exposure on Blood Flow and Blood Vessels in the Microvasculature. Bioelectromagnetics 28 (2007) 81-98.

Don’t be so quick to trash a very popular urban myth.

Are you listening Thunder?

The results of the study are quite contradictory.

Anyhow, an questionable effect on microcirculation and a pe-effect are two pairs of shoes in my mind. I seriously doubt that magnetic fields would have any effect on penis grow.

Later - ttt

Marinera, - according to laplace law pressure increases wall tension even at low compliance if I understood correctly. And I think that wall (=tunica) tension is key. So even if further pressure doesn’t induce much volume change, the wall tension is increased proportionally.

Regarding incompressibility of fluids I don’t know what happens at extremely high pressures. At the pressure we are dealing with in pe fluids can be considered / are incompressible.

Later - ttt

Fuck that shit. I used to live under high voltage power lines and I’m OK,OK,OK,OK,.OK.

The master spoke.

Later - ttt

Originally Posted by pudendum
Ttt - I think you need to rethink this.

If T = (P * r)/M, in our case: Tunica Tension = (Cavernosa pressure x Cavernosa Radius)/Tunica Thickness

Then if tunica thickness decreases as it gets stretched, then M is decreasing. If M decreases you are making the product of pressure and radius larger (the quotient is larger).

So as pressure and radius get larger and tunica thickness gets small, then wall tension gets larger, not smaller.

Sorry - yes, you are right.

But the this would favour hard core pe.

Later - ttt

Well, that is easy to cure pudendum. Go back to the power lines and live for an equal amount of time while standing on your head. That should reverse your polarity enough to get you back to normal. Then you can drop this magnet voodoo stuff.

Cool!

Later - ttt

Originally Posted by mravg
Triple T, I think that Physiology, in general, is indeed very interesting. I don’t know how I said it in my previous post, but I intended to say that I am not well educated in penis physiology, not that it isn’t interesting.
In fact, I have always been interested in the medical sciences, and found a way to combine my engineering studies with medicine when I went to graduate school for biomedical engineering. I wasn’t a good enough student to be a doctor, but if I had to do it all over again, that is probably what I would want to be. I envy guys like you and pudendum.

Like pudendum said, both are fascinating and combining our knowledge will be, and already is, very productive for our discussion.

Later - ttt

Originally Posted by mravg
Well, if you imagine the model of a full tank with a hose coming in and a hose going out, if you pinch the exit hose, the incoming flow also stops because there is no where for additional water to go unless the tank stretches from the incoming water pressure.

This continues what I was saying in my last post. As I described, the vacuum in the cylinder results in more force pushing out on the tunica. If this force is enough to stretch the tunica (increase the total volume of the penis), then more blood will enter to fill that volume. So in essence, you are right, the vacuum sucks more blood in, but I don’t like using the term “suck”, except with my wife. :)

So if that is agreed, the question is what force does pumping create (st what level)?

What force does clamping create?

Originally Posted by sparkyx
OK, we seem to have that sorted out.how about a monkey wrench tossed in the works.

I have been thinking about how jelquing with seemingly modest pressures can cause increased girth, and the phenomenon of the tissue under the clamp expanding best ( search Elliptical Strain in Aristocanes thread).

What I’ve been thinking is that PERHAPS because the tunica is essentially a wall or cylinder of fibrous tissue, that putting it under full pressure STRENGTHENS the wall and makes it more resistant to deformation.

The example I am thinking of would be imagine a balloon made of Kevlar fibers. If you inflate it to high pressure, trying to puncture it or more precisely, trying to pull apart the fibers with your fingers or a blunt instrument would be far more difficult than if it was un-inflated or at least partially uninflated.

PERHAPS, it’s the separation of the fibers from each other, or at least expanding the fibers in relation to each other that is the key. When you jelque at partial erectile levels, you are allowing enough “slack” in the fibers to allow you to make changes of the fibrous “mat” or stretch them apart slightly in relation to their normal inter relationship.

When you have a full erection, or beyond full erection, the fibers are pulled tight forming a very tough wall. Then it depends on the total strength as to whether it will deform enough with clamping or pumping to make progress.

I think it may well be that guys with very tough tunica may respond better to jelquing than high pressure clamping, because having part of the tunica unstressed will allow fibers to be moved or “spread apart” far easier in the part that is being stressed.

Just as the Elliptical Stain formed by the clamp, focuses greater stress on the area under the clamp, perhaps by lowering the overall “taughtness” of the tunica mesh, it is easier to make changes to other areas of the tunica.

This is a case for low level pumping? And low level clamping?

This is a case for low level pumping? And low level clamping?

This is a case for lower erection PE of all kinds (not necessarily for lower intensity). PE at lower starting levels of tunica stretch may encourage lengthening over strengthening.

Only clampers can tell whether “lower erection clamping” is contradictory (an oxymoron) or even possible.

Originally Posted by pudendum

However, I agree that absence of pressure rise with kegels is very surprising and may turn our idea that this brings more blood into the erectile chambers on it’s ear. It is possible that there are volume changes without pressure changes as the penis becomes more erect, but this cannot be the case with peak erection. This the real hot news for us here and we need to reevaluate our methods in light of this.

I have to say for a long time I read about guys talking about kegeling and making it bigger. I do not have the same experience. It seems kegeling actually makes the penis retract. I was willing to think it might force blood in, but it was never verifiable. For instance, clamp with a 60% or 70% erection and then try to kegel to 100%. It does seem to work. Unless some people like the way it feels? I do not see an increase in blood. Can this be verified by sitting at your desk and doing a kegel work out with 100% flaccid penis at the beginning and end?

I need to fix this..

It does not seem to work.