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Girth theory: glans and corpus cavernosum.

Originally Posted by Monty:
I don’t understand how a v- or inverted v-stretch can be applied without stress to the ligs. Seems like they would be involved predominately regardless of angle or fulcrum stress. Perhaps you could give me a clue to how those physics can apply to the tunica without ligament involvement. Ive always felt that the only means to tunica work is through clamping or perhaps a pump ( I question the value of a pump on inner structure influence )
Anatomically the suspensory ligaments (which is reality is not a well defined ligament like we would think of other ligaments in other parts of the body as they travel out the penis from the base (being anchored on the pubic bone), the fibers insert themselves into the outer layer of the tunica.

I agree that when you put fulcrum stresses on the tunica you will also affect the suspensory ligament as well. I was commenting on your statement that the ligaments are the rate limiting step. My belief that stretching the longitudinal fibers of the outer layer of the tunica is and has been successful to enhance length - in addition to the suspensory ligaments. The fiber density in the tunica is higher than in the suspensory ligament, therefore more stress is necessary to sucessfully. Some use lots of direct force (clamping), others use negative external forces (pumping) and still others use fulcrum or erect bending; or a combination.

Originally Posted by Monty:
What I was referring to was the relationship between the circumferential inner layer and the longitudinal outer layer of the tunica. I forget where I saw that mentioned the they formed a perceived lattice but wasn’t necessarily one that was bound together as you might suspect by the word lattice. I find it very interesting that they would be independent of each other though.
I agree it could be looked at functionally like a lattice, though anatomically it is not.

Making anatomy even more complex and slightly more confusing, I presented a study (Bitsch M, et al. The elasticity and the tensile strength of the tunica albuginea of the corpora cavernosa. Journal of Urology 143 (1990) 642 - 5.) in Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping (post #357). I posted a picture from the study that looked at a hinging effect seen in the tunica (both layers) in cadaver penises. Elastic fibers appear to keep the tunica fiber bundles bent and shortened - the elastic fibers are stretched with erection as the tunica lengthens and becomes “girthy.”

So what are the resistances to enhancement? Is it suspensory ligaments, tunica fibers, tunica layers orientation, tunica layer numbers (maybe in some guys), smooth muscle, and, and, and, or? I’ll give you a smart ass answer (which I am noted for): Yes.

Originally Posted by Monty:
Yes I agree, that is the quest, to stretch without building structure. A fine line for sure. I’ve always maintained that the minimal amount of weight used in a routine is the best approach because it tends to stay under the bodies radar for mass repair processes which would be counter productive. So the by-word is not only “less is more” but more emphatically “don’t over train”.

Originally Posted by man-of-10
Hey pudendum, yeah I was reading back through this thread. Optimizing PE considering tunica structure

I think perhaps the diagonal fibers form as a result of stress, but I’m still pretty unsure.

Hey man-of-10. What ttt is saying in essence in Optimizing PE considering tunica structure is that there is an overall longitudinal (outer) and circumferential (inner) orientation to the tunica layers, BUT as in everything else in life this is not a perfect explanation. There will be some fibers and fiber bundles that may be somewhat diagonal to the overall long axis of the orientation of that layer — but in summation the outer layer acts as if all of it’s fibers are longitudinal and the inner layer circumferential.

That begs the question: does the percentage of diagonally arranged fibers in the tunica layers differ from guy to guy and does this make tunica enhancement (in combination with the many other factors) more or less possible. Good question, deserving a good answer. I know that with all of the excellent discussions in the numerous threads on the tunica and mechanisms of enhancement, we still haven’t reached the Holy Grail.

Originally Posted by pudendum
I agree that when you put fulcrum stresses on the tunica you will also affect the suspensory ligament as well.

A fulcrum in the OTS hanging position (between your pelvis and tunica) won’t activate the suspensory much, Monty.

I remembered this guy cutemikey from a long time ago having a really good CS, so checked out his pics again.

It’s not as good as I remembered, but still fairly pronounced.

Here’s the best pic.

[Deleted - no penis pics allowed in Main Member Forum]

And here’s the thread where he talks about his technique.

Picture from PE Forum

All I really get from it is that he erect-jelqs while pulling down and out.

Last edited by firegoat : 04-24-2010 at . Reason: Deleted penis pic.

Originally Posted by marinera
Thanks for the clarification, Pudendum.
You are welcome. It took me a while to respond because I had to think about your post.
Originally Posted by marinera
It seems what you are pointing to is the idea that doing girth and length work together could be more effective (for length) than doing only length work (and viceversa?). But it seems that many, if not most, of advanced PEers feel that girth work makes length gains harder to achieve.

Also: after girth work, your penis is fatter, more pumped. This means that longitudinal force is figthing more resistance.

I’m not sure either that, when pulled apart, the longitudinal fibers will oppose less resistance. A bundle of fibers (I mean fibers that touch one side the other) will oppose the same resistance than the same number of fibers that are pulled apart. Are you supposing there is some amount of friction between one longitudinal fiber and the conterminous, that add more resistance to longitudinal elongation?

By fatter, do you mean when you’re flaccid, partially erect or full erection? I think this makes a difference. Our goal is to enhance gains throughout the entire range. At peak erection the countering effects of the perpendicularly arranged longitudinal arrange layer will be greatest.

Shortly before he left, Xenolith responded to discussion of the two layer tunica and its resistance to enhancement in the thread Girth theory: glans and corpus cavernosum. (post # 63):

Originally Posted by xenolith
This stress induced physical manifestation (the splaying) in addition to chemical ones (collagen speciation) are, I believe, the origin for the hypothesis of finite length gains, which, I daresay, with no small amount of remorse, there is a plethora of evidence for and an absence of said against.
Unfortunately he may be right. I know many agree and many disagree. He is suggesting that have to choose whether you want length or girth as your predominant goal because one may limit the other over the long hall. I would hope that he is wrong; the experience of some might suggest otherwise, though these might be the exception not the rule.

Originally Posted by pudendum
You are welcome. It took me a while to respond because I had to think about your post.
By fatter, do you mean when you’re flaccid, partially erect or full erection? I think this makes a difference. Our goal is to enhance gains throughout the entire range. At peak erection the countering effects of the perpendicularly arranged longitudinal arrange layer will be greatest.

I was meaning while flaccid, becuase length specific work is done in flaccid state.

About the Xenolith excerpt, I’m not sure what he was meaning or how this topic could help solving the ‘finite or infinite gains debate’ - that seems more a philosophic question than a testable one.

On the other hand, I tend to think that length gains don’t make girth gains harder. Sometime I think they could actually make girth gains easier - not much time to explain why right now, but probably I’ll come back on this one day or another.

I hope it’s ok to revive this thread - it’s a a good resource.

Before I started PE way back, my biggest issue is that my glans would not inflate at all during an erection (I attribute that to a stunt bike accident in my youth that had me pissing blood for 2 weeks…). My erections bent down slightly and I had a flat underside (CS) for the longest time. Over the years, I’ve come across various methods I believe have helped me out. My glans now inflate considerably without my coaxing and my CS is far from flat (though it still happens from time to time, not sure why).

Clamped Wall Press:
I’ve found that clamped wall presses have helped me extremely. I started doing them a while back after seeing a guy’s clamping methods videos. It’s a VERY intense exercise and definitely should not be practiced by someone under-conditioned. It’s -still- painful, even though I’ve been doing them for a while now. I don’t recommend doing them too much or for too long. I have caused bleeding on the shaft doing this so be careful!

I perform them double-clamped, full erection with as much blood forced into the head as possible before fully tightening the clamps. I go until it won’t click anymore. Again, be careful. You can break the clamp if you try to shut it too far. It’s a somewhat barbaric exercise but it has really gotten the job done for me. While standing, grip your penis and lean forward into a wall while putting as much of your body weight as you can tolerate onto the meatus of your glans. You will feel intense pressure all throughout your penis - the CCs and the CS. Hold it there only for a few seconds and don’t repeat this more than 5 or so times in the same clamped erection. I you want to do more, give yourself a few minutes of break unclamped then go at it again. If you are new to clamping, do not attempt this - again, I have caused my shaft to bleed a bit doing this. It can be dangerous. My erections are still quite impressive, so I’ve not done any damage but bleeding is never good, so be careful.

Bulb? Massaging:
Similar to a method posted here but in a slightly different spot. I discovered that I could stick my fingers under the skin at the back of my scrotum, where the skin starts to become tight once more. I can reach back to what seems to be the BC muscle doing this. Putting pressure here instantly engorges my head without any level of pain. I do this while semi and while fully erect. Simply press against it gently and hold for about 30 seconds a few times, eventually moving on to a more ‘milking’ style, pulling your pressed fingers upwards towards the shaft. I think this is a much more therapeutic method and since it feels so safe I think it’s suitable for everyone.

Now keep in mind, since the problem of a non-inflating glans and near invisible CS was a huge deal for me, I did and still do a lot of other things targeting it. So I cannot simply attribute the changes to those two methods. ULIS, constricted pumping+condom, Horse 440’s, Jelqing, etc. have all been employed so take what you will and be safe.

Last edited by SydKitten : 06-14-2011 at .

A little over two months of PE under my belt and after week two of the newbie routine I added and have been consistently making a single handed C grip (while erect) directly under my CS and on-top of shaft after I have jelqed for about 10 minutes. Nothing too crazy, nothing too intense, sometimes just ten strokes. When performing the exercise the glans swells and gets extremely shiny, it almost gets as pumped as I do. It seems to take on more blood flow for the rest of the jelq session.

I notice my glans to be consistently larger during all erections now, which makes a huge difference in how it looks to your partner.
Hope this helps fellas.

Reject the basic assumptions of civilizations, especially the importance of material possessions.

Disclaimer: I have no medical training or knowledge of phlebology to support my assumption/speculation here, only personal experience and results. That being said….

I’ve been clamping on and off for about a year. During the summer I started a consistent routine on weekends. Also, I have ED (venous leak) and use a small section of a bicycle inner tube (IT), as a cock ring to help keep a good chub going while clamping. One day while doing my clamping routine I got weary of putting the IT on and taking it off; I thought it could aid me as a wrap instead of using a mouse pad. I left it on and clamped directly on top of it. It worked great.

As the weeks went by I thought if I extended the length of the IT and use it as a sleeve while clamping, it would completely cover my shaft restricting any shaft expansion and direct all engorgement/pressure to my glans, resulting in a bigger/wider glans.

So far, I have consistently been able to reach a glans expansion from 5.25 to at least 5.5 within the first session. I have gotten it up to 5.75. Also I’ve been getting some unexpected and very impressive morning wood since using the IT sleeve.

I mentioned this ‘erection’ activity to a fellow PE friend and he decided to try using the IT. After using it once, he reported that next morning of having one of the most intense erections in his life (we are middle aged men, 57 & 56). My friend was so impressed with our new individual erection stories, that he has been doing some research of how the IT sleeve could provoke such a response (especially because of my venous leak). He likened it to a compression sock for people with varicose veins. Veins are responsible for carrying blood from body parts back to the heart. All veins contain a system of valves which allow blood to travel. Varicose veins occur when these valves fail, which allows blood to flow/leak backwards (can’t help but think of a venous leak here). Compression stockings provide steady external pressure(s) that assists the muscles and vein valves in moving blood more efficiently.

Again, neither of us have any medical training but this makes a lot of since to us. I’m not ready to boast of any permanent glans gains yet but I do look and feel larger/harder.

If anyone is interested, I can provide a link w/pix and comments of the IT sleeve in use.


I’m not 100% sure I understand, but I think I do. I wouldn’t mind seeing some pics if you don’t mind.

Originally Posted by Mick
I’m not 100% sure I understand, but I think I do. I wouldn’t mind seeing some pics if you don’t mind.

Here is the link:…ube-pe-use.html
Click on any of the pix for a larger version. Scroll down each shot and you will see comments from members and my reply. These photos did not load in desired sequence, hopefully they make since.


I probably won’t try this myself as I’d rather get shaft girth than head girth, but does this really work that much better to get head girth?

Yes. The IT sleeve restricts girth expansion along the shaft and enhances unrestricted expansion at glans.

Is Collagen stimulation/growth good or bad for PE?

My wife is an Aesthetician and has a light module that she uses on her clients to stimulate collagen growth. There is also lots of IR so I use it as a warm up/down prior and after my routine.

Originally Posted by xenolith
There comes a time when collagen fiber normal stress manifests growth, albeit radial, more reliably than does continued longitudinal stress application. Excepting the phenomenally precise application of IPR principles to maximize elasticity potential/minimize contraction response…strongly advise against this pursuit unless you’re prepared to be more critically analytical than me…believe that to be practically impracticable…well, length gains become very difficult. Stress induced collagen speciation results in a tunica structure that simply has too low a modulus of elasticity to accomplish elongation in the direction of fiber growth…2 years of 200-300lb. hanging = 0.125” EL gain so indicate. Rather advise that one achieve what they can length-wise…and DO USE IPR PRINCIPLES…and then seek to maximize girth…and use IPR principles here too. Use distraction principles too…longitudinal strain (which may require significant longitudinal stress) to develop potential for radial strain.

Might write a more complete treatise that includes suggested training protocols some day.

It’s been 5 years since I wrote the above post; evidence from my PE practice since then is consistent with what I postulated in the above post, however, it may very well be because of the methods that I’ve been using since then: I’ve gained 0.00” in length and 0.375” in girth since then. But, I’ve been only sporadically been practicing hanging…although at very high weights, 50-80 lbs., but it’s been to distract my tunica (longitudinally) from the radial work that has lately been my focus since that last post. My cock is now thicker than my wrist and I’m sure that I can make it much thicker than that. Have been using the gizmo below…been calling it the Nice Vice…can certainly recommend it. Still employing IPR principles…the I and the P don’t add up to anything without the R…(in my experience).

Attached Images
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originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.125" BPEL x 6.625" EG (ms); ultimately:..............Void...................

Hidden details: Finding xeno: a penis tale; Some photos: Tiger

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