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Focus Your PE and Gain! TGC Theory

Marinera: Thank you for the insightful post. You made some great points … and I wouldn’t have known English isn’t your native tounge if you didn’t point it out ;)

Originally Posted by marinera
First of all, I thanks you, Iguana and Remek, for your hard work and this interesting thread.

That said, I have some perplexity about your theory.

First of, does this theory implies that if someone has done only manual stretching, than he will have a longer tunica but pretty the same smooth muscles than before?

Not exactly. It does imply that if someone focuses on stretching and hanging 100 percent (no jelqs, ulis, or other girth exercises), then their smooth muscle will be worked out less — and possibly much less — than their tunica will.

I agree with t3 that this is the weakness in our theory. If you we had to break it down into two parts, our theory mainly states:
1) When you PE, your growth is mainly being limited by two things: The SM and the tunica.
2) You can focus on one of these two with different types of exercises (girth for SM, length for tunica).

I am 90 percent sure that Part 1 is true (the research points to it being the case, my experience does, and so does the anecdotal evidence we’ve looked at). On contrast, I am probably only around 75 percent sure that part 2 is true. That leaves 25 percent of my mind agreeing with you.

The other 75 percent of my mind is applying logic (or at least the way I see it) to the situation. On a very basic level, we know that stretching clearly stretches both the tunica and the smooth muscle. We know this because both have to grow for the penis to grow. We also know that the tunica is much closer to the point of impact of the stress (the hand stretching, the extender, the hanger, whatever). Accordingly, it is taking more of the pressure than the inner tissues are (i.e. the smooth muscle). That said, the smooth muscle is no doubt receiving some of the stress, so it will grow on some level.

Taking this logic and applying it to girth exercises, the stress is coming from the inside rather than the outside. So, for example, when you do a ULI, the blood goes into the penis, fills up the SM, and completely relaxes it. The SM is taking most of the stress here because it is at the epicenter of the stress — inside the penis. It is directly impacted by the ULI. The tunica is indirectly impacted by the ULI due to the SM relaxing. That said, the tunica can indeed be stretched by a ULI. Think of a priapism — the SM is uncontrollably relaxed and pushed at its limit for so long that the tunica is getting an amazing workout (and thus can lead to megalophallus)

Originally Posted by marinera
The second point is that your hypothesis about the relation between [BPFSL>>BPEL]-> [less smooth muscle than needed] doesn’t cut-off the role of the blood in filling the void space: i.e., you are supposing that
a) you have to make your smooth muscle bigger;
b) you have to fill this more muscle with blood;

now, let’s apply the Occam' Razor: could the more blood alone fill that gap? I’d say yes, for two reason:

1) smooth muscles are really elastic, by what I know; should not be a problem to expand them a little more than in the “pre length gain state”;
2) those who have BPFSL>>BPEL, are usually able to reach BPFSL when clamping - and we can’t suppose that smooth muscle grow instantaneously, agree?

So, if your body “learn” how to push this little more blood in the penis, this fact alone can explain why girth routine are good choices in that situation. The hypothesis on smooth muscle growth is not required to explain the same phenomena: this is a consequence, not the cause, of the filled gap.

About point 2, I’m not sure if everyone who has a high BPFSL can reach that during clamping. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I haven’t read anything to suggest that it’s common place. Does it happen for you?

Either way, I think (???) we’re agreeing that in this case you’d want to focus on a girth routine.

Quote
On the other hand, thinking of a tunica too little for the smooth muscle inside, is a little unnatural: think that, if it were, you could not achieve a real 100% erections, because the tunica, exceptionally strong as you know, doesn’t permit to smooth muscle to fully expand: so, tunica has to be the limiting factor, in any case.

I disagree. I think in this case the erection will indeed be 100 percent. The reason I say this is that an erection, the way I see it, is simply the smooth muscle relaxing enough to press against the tunica. In turn, this causes the veins to be “shut off.”

Whay way do you see it?

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Finally, I agree with memento about the studies regarding the hypothetical relation [smooth muscle lackness -> ED]; I think that, by what we know, only the inverse relation is somewhat proven :[ED->smooth muscle lackness] - due to progressive atrophy.

I think it would be somewhat hard to prove the opposite the case. That said, we do know that the relaxation of the SM causes an erection. If the SM can’t relax all the way (either by overtraining or presumably there not being enough there), then there isn’t an erection.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by remek
………………………………………….. ……..
Either way, I think (???) we’re agreeing that in this case you’d want to focus on a girth routine.

Yes, I agree. I could go a little ahead: I think that intermediate and advanced PEers should alternate work; think about doing 3 months or so focused on length work, and then 3 months or so focused on girth work.

This is similar to periodization approach in athletic training; it’s something that is applyed also in any kind of human-improvement activity. Let’s do a semplicistic example: you’re attempting to solve an hard math problem; after a while, the more you try, the more you’re doing worse. Something we could call saturation. If you leave that problem for a while, or for a day, you are more likely going to solve that enigma.

From an empiric point of view, I’m completely with you; it’s this (secondary) point that I found not convincing: [smooth muscle growth] versus [tunica growth].

It’s a plus not required to explain why gains in “one-dimension” are stalling after a while (uh…I hope it’s clear). Tunica can expand in girth or in length; if you work on both at the same time, the adaptation is hardest, because the body is doing two task in one time.

On the other hand, if you work on length only, after a while you’ll get a plateau; I think, also, that the body has some kind of “balance preserving” rule, so gaining a 15” length-3” girth penis is less possible that a 7x6 penis (numbers are just putted to give an idea of what I mean).

It is curious to note that this approach is somewhat sustaining the memento’ idea that there could be a trade-off girth-length.

However, the point is: it’s simplest to suppose that, once tunica has grown, the smooth muscles inside will spontaneously grow also, to fill the “new space” available.

About reaching BPFSL when clamping, haven’t you never measured? Or you have fear of clamping? (Oh, I’m not blaming: it would be wise, because clamping IS dangerous).

On the end, I applaude your attitude of not being angry with those who make critics; you got that they are not motivated by envy or something bad, but just are trying to collaborate - and this is a sign of intelligence.

:up:

More support for stretch induced smooth muscle growth. This one is a bear to read but has some interesing points.

Quote
Mechanotransduction plays a critical role in vascular homeostasis. However, in contrast to growth factor–induced cell cycle entry and progression, not much is known about its direct influence on cell cycle regulation. Although moderate cyclic stretch, as occurs under physiological conditions, seems essential for maintaining the vessel wall structure and for inhibiting growth factor–stimulated proliferation of VSMCs,16 increased stretch, more like that resembling pathological conditions as occurs in severe hypertension, in venous bypass grafts, or during balloon angioplasty, was reported to induce proliferation of VSMCs (vascular smooth muscle cells.)

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/con…onaha;108/5/616


Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.

Louis Pasteur

Remek very interesting in deed, I just don’t understand the whole thing as far as measurements are concerned. I am 4 inches flaccid and about 6.5 erect and girth is 5 my erections are pretty hard I would say 8.5 or 9 but have hit a plateau for quite a while, what do you think would be the right way for me to go about doing the exercises based on your theory? Oh yeah I was waiting for a breakthrough this year and I think this is it.

I am not really sold on the idea that you should not stretch all the time. I am seeing better results from adding jelqing and clamping over this last week then ever before.

It makes sense though if you think about it heavy stretch in the morning 1 hr 6 lbs to 8 lbs then right after clamp ten min then light stretcher 2 lbs for 4 to 6 hrs then heavy stretch at night same as in the morning.

We are trying to stretch the tunic and tendons and ligs so that they are weaken to the point of deformation this allows actual cell growth to fill in the micro tears or gaps that is made by stretching.so when you stretch heavy the ligs and tendons and tunic are some what fatigued then clamp for your internal stretching of the tunica.

Clamping stretches outward and to the sides this has to help in length gains.So working length then working girth seem counter productive. This is not like working out in the gym for mass then cuts. We have to get this out of are heads. Tendons and ligs will retract if you stop stretching them unless you push them to deformation.

If you stretch the tendons and ligs in the legs say for a year everyday you will be very flexible. When you stop stretching you will loss some flexibility because there is retraction but you will not lose all of it because you have cause some deformation. So why is the penis any different.

As for the tunic if you lay of stretching it the body will repair it totally and you will have to start all over to get to the point of deformation.I don’t believe you should ever stop stretching as for jelqing there should be some rest days so not to injure your self. If someone has a logical reason for not stretching let me know but I just can’t see one.

Once you have hit the deformation stage I think jelqing and clamping cause growth to happen even faster.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Originally Posted by Iguana
More support for stretch induced smooth muscle growth. This one is a bear to read but has some interesing points.

This seem support what me and ttt are saying - if your penis grows, it grows in all components.

diesel, your theory is illogical; the penis grow after healing (at least if you are speaking of high stress).
Plastic deformation doesn’t apply to living tissues like in inanimate things; you don’t have to make it continuously weak, or you’ll get injuries.

You’re seeing results in the last week?! How much your penis is grown in that time?

Also, check your post - many errors, there, even if I’m the last one that could do remarks.


Last edited by marinera : 05-03-2008 at .

I disagree with you. The point of PE is to weaken the structure of the tunica ligs and tendons to allow microscopic tears in the penis so that new cell fill in the gaps creating a larger penis. This is seen in leg lengthening.They don’t put a traction device on the leg for a couple of day then take it off to let the body heal then re-break the leg and do it all over again.

There are 3 way to get growth from how I see it. If someone else agrees with me let me know and if you don’t I would like to here why not.

1.stretching the tendons and ligs beyond there normal range so that they can no longer retract to normal size this is what I mean be deformation.This expose internal penis that is hidden in side the body, this is the same way penis surgery works they just cut the tendon instead of stretching it out.

2.weakening the tunica allows the chambers to expand to a larger size for girth and I think this helps with length also.

3.creating more cells that fill in the gaps in the penis from PE.With this part of PE I believe happens more if constant low tension is applied to the penis like in leg lengthening surgery.

As in building muscle there is a thin line between over-training and growth with muscle as with the penis. The body will only grow when the outside force or stress is great enough to make the body grow.I believe the penis grow in the same way and only by doing a combo of methods will you see the fastest results in PE.

The one big difference in over training muscle is that you are stressing the whole body which results in the release of cortisol this is a catabolic hormone that breaks down muscle, on top of that the body lowers the good hormone’s gh and test.

This doesn’t happen with over training the penis that I believe because the penis is to small to stress the body out in this manner. I would say over training or negative pi comes from too much damage to the penis by hang to much weight pumping to long or jelq or clamping to much or at to high a level.
This cause the tissue to be over stressed and the body’s response is to try to fix it by shutting down erection pressure so as to not have further injury to the penis this is just my thought not fact of course but this is how the body responds to other injury’s so why not the penis.

For result in the last month there has been a .20 to .25 increase in size. I had trouble measuring, always do erection just seems to go down quick once I get the ruler next to it.

I will have to use a cock ring for my final measurement and pics to get the most accurate measurement. I don’t like to measure to often I feel it like getting on a scale every day looking for improvement I will measure and take pics at the the end of my last 2 months of my program to show results.

Now as for the last week results slightly larger hang much fuller all the time and the wife commented about how it felt bigger the last time we had sex I use her as my true guide when not measuring plus my cock always look small to me but I think we all have this problem or we wouldn’t be on this site.I add manual exercises and clamping because of this thread and has don nothing but help my current program of stretching.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Diesel220,

Mine also “backs up a bit” when I take a ruler measurement. A cock ring would allow a more consistent measurement, just like you say.

Good to hear that I am not the only one. With that problem


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Originally Posted by diesel220
I disagree with you. The point of PE is to weaken the structure of the tunica ligs and tendons to allow microscopic tears in the penis so that new cell fill in the gaps creating a larger penis.

“Microscopic tears” and “weaken” are not synonimous - more likely the opposite.

Originally Posted by diesel220

This is seen in leg lengthening.They don’t put a traction device on the leg for a couple of day then take it off to let the body heal then re-break the leg and do it all over again.

Are you speaking of broken legs, it seems : do you want to break your penis?

If you impose microscopic tears to your tissues, like is done with an extender, healing happens mostly while new microscopic tears are borning - the best model of thinking at this process is “remodeling”.

If tears are large, then you have to wait until they hear. This has been discussed on this forum a lot of time, I suggest you a search - and, also, reading carefully threads based on scientific references, not unsustained hypothesis and/or claims.

Originally Posted by diesel220
……………..
1.stretching the tendons and ligs beyond there normal range so that they can no longer retract to normal size this is what I mean be deformation.This expose internal penis that is hidden in side the body, this is the same way penis surgery works they just cut the tendon instead of stretching it out.

So, you think it’s safe exposing your internal penis? Would you expose your kydneys? Cutting the ligs gives a “gain” in length of 1/4 -1/2 inch; sometimes there is a lossen in length. Search threads started by guys who had penis surgery.

Originally Posted by diesel220

2.weakening the tunica allows the chambers to expand to a larger size for girth and I think this helps with length also.

Wrong. It’s not when the tunica it’s weakened that growth happens, but when it’s healed.

Originally Posted by diesel220

3.creating more cells that fill in the gaps in the penis from PE.With this part of PE I believe happens more if constant low tension is applied to the penis like in leg lengthening surgery.

If the tears are too large, causing other tears (even microscopics) lead to stalling gains and, if you persist, to injuries. There is a limit to the healing ability of your penis.

Originally Posted by diesel220

As in building muscle there is a thin line between over-training and growth with muscle as with the penis. The body will only grow when the outside force or stress is great enough to make the body grow.I believe the penis grow in the same way and only by doing a combo of methods will you see the fastest results in PE.

So, in BB, do you train yor legs with 500 lbs, then training them for the rest of the day with, for say, 50 lbs, in the attempt of don’t make them regrow as small as they were before training? I think : train - rest -train is the walk. Apply this to your penis, also.

BTW - the penis grow also, and maybe better, when [i]internal/i] forces are imposed.

Originally Posted by diesel220

I would say over training or negative pi comes from too much damage to the penis by hang to much weight pumping to long or jelq or clamping to much or at to high a level.
This cause the tissue to be over stressed and the body’s response is to try to fix it by shutting down erection pressure so as to not have further injury to the penis this is just my thought not fact of course but this is how the body responds to other injury’s so why not the penis.

I’m with you, here - this exactly contradict your previous hypothesis.

Originally Posted by diesel220

For result in the last month there has been a .20 to .25 increase in size. I had trouble measuring, always do erection just seems to go down quick once I get the ruler next to it.
I will have to use a cock ring for my final measurement and pics to get the most accurate measurement.

So you don’t know really if you had gains or not. The cock ring is maybe falsing the measurement. But this is not the real point, of course :)

Originally Posted by diesel220

Now as for the last week results slightly larger hang much fuller all the time and the wife commented about how it felt bigger the last time we had sex I use her as my true guide when not measuring plus my cock always look small to me but I think we all have this problem or we wouldn’t be on this site.I add manual exercises and clamping because of this thread and has don nothing but help my current program of stretching.

This is the real point, friend: less is more in PE. Don’t be overzealus, or you will have to regret.

Just an advice, I’ve nothing to earn from it :) .


Last edited by marinera : 05-06-2008 at .

Ok I am not getting in a big argument on here. Because the way you see and what I have read about growth differ severely, but just a couple of things.
I have grown just couldn’t get the most accurate reading because my hard on was going down.I never said I used a cock ring was think about using one to get more accurate reading.other people have the same problem see post above. I hit the quick 7.75 to 7.70 so yes I have gained with what you call over training. In the last 30 days.

The tunic is just facial tissue like that that encompasses your muscle. Facial tissue is like a tight plastic like tissue coating that can keep muscle from becoming bigger this is a fact. This why bb have deep tissue facial stretching to allow room for the muscle to grow in to. This is a fact. The deep facial massage breaks up the fascia and allows it to be essayer to stretch for your ever expanding muscle volume.

The tunic is made of the same tissue this is why when blood expands the chambers it cause erection because the tunica is tight this cause constriction with a weakened tunica the chambers can expand even larger before constriction happens. Read this beginning of this thread so you know what really is happening inside the penis.

As for science post on here they are good but most stuff comes from studies that have nothing to do with the penis but other tissue that we think might respond like penis tissue. Since there are no studies on how to make the penis large that have been done by the medical or scientific community as of yet.So what we have here is suedo science theory and hypothesis from the info we have.

This is way we are all here to see what is working for people and what is not working for people. I remember when the penis master fist came out on this website most guys thought is was a bunch of shit that it would never work and only jelqing would work or hanging heavy weights from your cock.Now most guys don’t hang over 15 lbs there is know a large shift in the way we think of these devices and how we work out the penis.

I feel as though you some times think your way of penis enlargement is the only way to go and this is not true.I don’t dislike you in any way you are probably a really nice guy . I have trained guys in bb for years to compete and used to train guys in mma so I know some stuff about how the body works since it is my lively hood I read about it 24-7.I have done M.A. My whole life since I was five my father was a third dan instructor in Korea so stretching was apart of my life since my early years everyday these are things I have used all my life. When other kids were watching football we were watching kung fu theater.

As for the breaking your penis I am not going to respond to this in detail if you know anything about cell mitosis then you would know this is the prime example for this in were the body actually grows more tissue.Breaking the penis what?

I have never had an injury from stretching but have had them from jelqing to hard or clamping to much to soon.

I never contradicted my self. You see me as over training, I do not so see this. In your mind I contradicted my self.

Read slower so you know what you are responding to.


Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Marinera, It seems that you like to argue for the sake of arguing, you’re nitpicking every minor point that Diesel is making instead of contributing something useful.

Diesel, Don’t listen to Marinera keep up the good posts.

Marinera is a moderator, so don’t get to extreme if views differ.

Anyhow, all of you have provided very good info here and in other posts, especially diesel220.

It seems that we have had an explosion in information posted and I have benefitted from alot of knowledge and experience that come
Out of it.

I know Marinera is a Moderator, but don’t you think he’s taking it a bit too far?!

To be honest, it irks of the “freedom of speech” vs “the freedom to screw yourself over”.

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