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Eating this will make your dick smaller...

Bear with this story. Last year I started the Atkins/High Protein diet. Main goal, lower blood pressure and avoid the medications my doc was threatening to prescribe. It worked. Within 30-45 days, my BP was in the healthy zone, cholesterol and blood sugar levels were lowered and I dropped about 15 lbs and 3” inches off my waist. That was maintained until the holidays. Fast forward to yesterday. After several failed attempts to restart the diet I was about to order “one final” high carb meal when the thought occurred, “eating this will not only make my waist bigger, but my penis will be shorter”. I burst out laughing and changed my order. If BP, cholesterol, and flat abs, etc aren’t enough motivation to eat properly, dick size (especially what should be non-bone pressed) will be. Since I have a 1” differential between NBP and BP lengths, I hoping my new mantra will help me stick to the diet and lessen that gap by half. That would make a 5.5” NBP into a 6” NBP, an almost 10% difference. The next 30-45 days might be my most productive in terms of gains.

FE

Absolutely agree. And by the way, it is a common misconception that Atkins is a HIGH protein diet. It is not. It is an adequate protein diet, with emphasis on carbohydrate controlled eating. Each of us are very different, and the level and type of carbohydrate that causes me to gain fat is most likely not the same for you. Atkins simply tells you why this is so, then gives you the tools to properly apply the approach to your individual metabolism. I eat no more protein now than I did before. However I do NOT eat sugar, white flour, potatoes or anything made from these products.

By the way, did you hear that Dr. Atkins is in a coma? Apparently during the last winter storm in NY, he slipped on ice and smacked his head on the sidewalk in front of his offices. He had emergency surgery, but remains in a coma with serious doubt about his recovery…


Twatteaser: the man, the myth, and the legend in his own mind.

rb

I agree w/you completely. For the sake of brevity, I labelled it a high protein diet. When I achieved my goals last year and went on “maintenance”, my carb intake was generally equal to, if not slightly greater than my protein intake. For anyone interested, check out Atkins or the Protein Power books.

FE

Quote
Originally posted by RB

By the way, did you hear that Dr. Atkins is in a coma? Apparently during the last winter storm in NY, he slipped on ice and smacked his head on the sidewalk in front of his offices. He had emergency surgery, but remains in a coma with serious doubt about his recovery…

The reports put Atkins chances at recovery at “slim” He’s been unresponsive for about a week. The surgery was to relieve pressure from bleeding in his brain. He was a healthy, successful, vibrant 72 years old. He lengthened alot of lives. It’s a shame.

Most recent un-biased, knowledge-seeking reviews of his diet (and Sears’ Zone and other carb-control diets) are conceding that he at least has a point. Some even conclude that he has been right on. I lost 40 pounds of body fat using an Atkins/D’Adamo/Zone diet five years ago. I’ve put some on and taken some off over the years and it still corellates exactly to avoiding high-glycemic index carbs, mostly wheat (dairy, too, for me..I luv Pizza…sniff)

I was also seeing some success with the Atkins diet; I lost 20lbs. in about a month and a half, then Christmas was here…… Since then I have been maintaining the achieved weight loss without the Atkins diet. I switched over to another program called “Eat right for your blood type”. This is not so much a diet, but rather gets you into eating the foods and types of fats and carbs and so on that are best metabolized by your particular blood type. The end result is that you are eating what will be used and burned most efficiently by your blood type greatly reducing the food elements that will be turned into fat. There is a book available for every individual blood type. Mine cost me $9.95 Canadian and you can find it at Chapters or just about any reputable book or health store.

That’s terrible news about Dr. Atkins and I hope he recovers. I have advocated this type of diet most of my 50 years based on old research done in the late forties - early fifties. Researchers knew way back then that carbs could pack on the pounds faster than any other food and that a “more adequate” supply of protein over carbs is preferable.
No, I’m not a dietician but just a nail bender. I LOVE carbs and sometimes I get carried away and start packing on the pounds, around the middle (I wish it went to my pecker instead!)

b1nzen48,

That sounds like an interesting book! Never heard about that approach before. Now, that I’ve become slightly hypoglycemic, does the book cover that subject as well? If so, I’ll try to track it down.


"Don't be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie. Go to school and study computers instead." Jackie Chan

I hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but Atkins is a snake oil salesman. This post by Lyle McDonald sums it up. Lyle has probably done more research than anyone on ketogenic diets.

Super-low carb diets suppress appetite. That’s all. No magic.

The zone diet, protein power, blood type diets (lol!), neanderthal diet…or whatever it’s called, and all the rest are also BS. The quacks make money selling books. Nobody needs to buy a book. Dieting ain’t rocket science. ;)

Hobby,

Hmmm, usually I agree with what you say but this time I say NAY… I did the Atkins’s diet 3 years ago and lost close to 50 lbs, it is still off and I hover right around 200 lbs currently.. My BP (blood pressure) went from very high to right where it should be at my age.. My LDL went down in a huge way and my HDL went slightly up.. Triglycerides went from over 500 to 177… I felt better, had more energy… My Mom lost 30lbs on the diet and went from a borderline diabetic to a healthy person..

Atkins’s may well be a jerk I do not know.. One thing he is not is a snake oil pusher… The diet pushed off as being healthy will change to reflect more of what Atkins’s has been claiming all along.. My Doctor is sold on it, family and several other people I know… I know of two tests that were done trying to discredit the diet and both of them came out in Atkin’s favor… I know it helped me be a more healthy person and the book made a bunch of sense…

If I was yanking weights and building a massive body I would pay a great deal of attention to Lyle McDonald. Atkin’s is a heart doctor who has been trying to convince people for a long time that his diet was the “correct diet”… Atkin’s is not a fad diet, it’s been around a long time and will become very accepted despite what PETA says…

Hobby, please do not get mad at me because that diet worked for me and did everything I was going to go on meds too accomplish… I might be out of line here but I wonder if you are a vegetarian?

Quote
Originally posted by hobby
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but Atkins is a snake oil salesman. This post by Lyle McDonald sums it up. Lyle has probably done more research than anyone on ketogenic diets.

Super-low carb diets suppress appetite. That's all. No magic.

The zone diet, protein power, blood type diets (lol!), neanderthal diet…or whatever it's called, and all the rest are also BS. The quacks make money selling books. Nobody needs to buy a book. Dieting ain't rocket science. ;)

Dude your just wrong. You sound like the guys out there who read all the PE spam they get and wonder and never try it but, being reassured by the party line state emphatically like they know something that PE doesn’t work. I know Lyle MacDonald’s work. Let me ask you, has Lyle ever let himself get out of shape to the point where he developed insulin resistance. Nope. So does he know what it takes to get back from there? Doubt it. As in shape as he is his level of insulin control is fine, (also his ability to mobilize fat for energy).

Those of us who got out of shape or never were in shape and have a genetic propensity toward insulin resistance need drastic carb control for a period to allow proper insulin regulation to re-establish. Carb control does not equal ketosis by a long shot. Atkins may be too extreme for the long haul, but even his program correctly understood re-introduces carbs from the low end up. The weight loss in the short run at the beginning is real and is an important priority for the typical out of shape fat herat unhealthy American. Was it ever meant to be a boon for fitness fanatics? I don’t think so.

The Zone does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Atkins. Ever actually READ sears work?

Do those diet guys try to profiteer a little bit too much from their discoveries. Yup, bother’s me a little. But hell, not that much. About as much as DLD starting a paysite bothers some other people. Some interesting parallels in this area to PE. Consider that you may not be right.


Last edited by rakishly : 04-16-2003 at .

regularwhiteguy,

Why on earth would I be mad at you? I don’t think we even disagree, but if we did that’s no reason to be mad at someone. I hope I don’t come across as intimidating.

LC diets are good for people who have a ravenous appetite on other diets. I’ve eaten LC before. I’m not knocking it. Some people have an easier time eliminating carbs instead of eating them in moderation. Interestingly, LC doesn’t blunt everyone’s appetite.

I burned out on the limited food choices. Meat and fat get old quickly. I like some bread, potatoes, pasta, etc. And yes, even chocolate shakes and other goodies on refeed days. Mmm….donuts. I think the #1 criterion in selecting an eating plan is to pick one you can stick with over the long haul - at least until you reach your goal weight and/or BF %. For me, it’s not LC.

I am bashing Atkins for his repeated assertion that weight is lost not from restricting calories, but from getting rid of the “evil” carbohydrates. Eat all you want. Calories don’t matter. This is BS. Oh, and BTW, carbs are not evil.

Some LC proponents (most?) don’t realize the initial weight loss is water. The body stores 3 parts water for each part of glycogen. You lose a shitload of water when you carb deplete. Eat carbs again and the water weight will return. Permanent weight loss comes from eating fewer calories than you burn.

If LC works for you and you can stick with the limited food choices, have at it. Just realize there is nothing magic about LC. Be sure to take supplements to provide the needed vitamins, minerals and fiber the diet lacks. Keep your EFA intake up and avoid eating too much saturated fat.

rakishly,

A lower-carb diet is good for people who are insulin resistant. Not everyone who is overweight and out of shape is highly insulin resistant. If you are familiar with Lyle’s work, then you realize he wrote the book _The Ketogenic Diet_. Sounds to me like you believe Lyle is against low-carb, which isn’t true.

LC has its place. It certainly isn’t the best diet for everyone, and it’s not magic as Atkins would like you to believe.

My diet strategy is simple and effective for me. Even though I was a fat, sedentary, extremely out of shape couch potato for several years, it still works. I started April 1. I’ve dropped a pound or two, and my strength has increased. I guess sitting on my ass, eating crap and gaining 40 pounds didn’t fuck up my insulin sensitivity, not noticeably anyway. Hmm.

Here’s how I diet:

Lift weights regularly. Do a few cardio sessions per week (HIIT once my muscles and joints are up to par). Eat roughly 1 gram of protein per lb. per day. Get enough EFA’s via good oils, nuts and fish oil. The remainder of calories come from fat and carbs. Keep calories slightly below maintenance. Have a cheat (refeed) day every couple weeks, more often as I get leaner. Works for me. My diet is varied and I don’t drive myself bonkers counting carbs.

Modified ketogenic diets are the best diets. Period.

Too bad about Dr. Atkins, though. I’m sure there were people out there who were wishing that it was hid diet that caused his injury.


Becoming.... Godsize

Hobby,

Agreed almost all weight loss is from restricting calories. AND that lowered carbs “only” reduce apetite. AND that very low carb diets cause water shedding from liberated glycogen. Concede that no matter who you are excess hi glycemic index carbs get stored as fat and your blood sugar drops and you need to eat again. The degree to which it happens depends upon your insulin sensitivity status, which depends upon dietetic history, exercise and genetics.

I’m not sure I agree with the weight loss from ketosis theory myself. I never seriously “Atkinsed”. But I did Zone. If you actually read the Zone Books and looked at what he recommendsa I would bet that you practically eat exactly as he recommends within 5%. My biggest problem in this whole thing is exactly what I said about “buying” the party line and not trying something that might work for you before you judge it. Many stubbornly fat people out there can havce would and do benefit from carb restriction. And once they readjust there metabolism (particularly insulin and adrenal function) they can go back TOWARD (not TO) a more typical way of eating. Anyone who cares to really understand it, and wants someone they would like to understand it to grt it will read or give away Diana Schwarzbein’s books. In the long run paleo is best.

Regarding Lyle, I have read his book. I understand his views on ketosis. For the typical insulin resistant person reducgin apetite IS MAGIC. Since you never suffered high insulin resistance you never experienced an insulin-over-secretion blood-sugar-crashed-hungry still-got-fat, hypoglcemic hell. It leads to a chronic inflammatory response that makes lactic acid transport, and therefore intense exercise and gradual adaptation nearly impossible. I have actiually been there. AND Back.

P.S. Funny how the USDA pyramid keeps getting adjusted to the point that it is only 5% away from Barry Sears Zone guidelines?

I can’t add much to the excellent points made by RWG and Rakishly. I agree with them completely. I have tried all kinds of diets, and the one that works for me is controlled carb.

Hobby, are you serious when you say carbs are not evil? I agree not all carbs are. But surely the excess consumption of sugar and refined flour in this society and the rapid rise in diabetes and heart disease leads me to believe that these two carbs are indeed very evil and should be avoided like the plague.

I tried everything to lose weight, until one day I stumbled upon the atkins book and read it with an open mind. I applied what he plainly stated to my life, and saw the parallels. I followed his approach, and lost scads of fat, bp and triglicerides normalized, and I felt FANTASTIC. I got off of it because I grew tired of all my family members assuring me I was gonna die because, mercy, I ate FAT, and everyone knows that’s bad, cause the experts say so. Bullshit. I put on about 30-40 pounds, decided fuck everyone, and am back eating controlled carbs. The weight is coming off, and I again feel great.

As far as a metabolic advantage by not counting calories, If I ignore the cited studies, if I ignore Dr. Atkins case studies presented in the book based on actual CARDIAC patients or any other anecdotal evidence, I can’t ignore my own experience. Originally starting Atkins, I ate a TON of fat, well over my daily need, and the fat melted off. As long as the bulk of these additional calories come from fats, which I believe the body has a harder time converting to glucose (I’ve read that the body actually burns more calories converting fat to glucose than the calories in the fat, it’s a very inefficient process), I lost fat, no matter the calorie count. I proved this to myself, and that is all I’m concerned with.

For people like myself, this way of eating is a godsend, it really teaches you how to avoid the roller coaster that screws us so hard in the first place. It’s a damn shame that people who don’t fully understand the Atkins approach slam it just because. I think if you would read the book his book and fully understand his approach, you would be totally shocked to find out that the diet you listed above is exactly what Dr. Atkins promotes- After the 2 week serious carb restriction, add good carbs back until you find YOUR PERSONAL level at which they cause you to gain weight. For the remainder of your weigh loss period, stay below this level. Sounds EXACTLY like what you are doing.


Twatteaser: the man, the myth, and the legend in his own mind.

Quote
Originally posted by hobby

The zone diet, protein power, blood type diets (lol!), neanderthal diet…or whatever it’s called, and all the rest are also BS. The quacks make money selling books. Nobody needs to buy a book. Dieting ain’t rocket science. ;) [/B]

What is this about? Never heard of the caveman diet? Anyone know the real name?


“You see, I don’t want to do good things, I want to do great things.” ~Alexander Joseph Luthor

I know Lewd Ferrigno personally.

prickle,

>Modified ketogenic diets are the best diets. Period.<

Ok. That settles the matter. Everyone in the world should always eat low carb. How could I have been so dense? :)

rakishly,

> Concede that no matter who you are excess hi glycemic index carbs get stored as fat and your blood sugar drops and you need to eat again.<

I agree. Excess is the key word. Excessive calories, whether from carbs, protein or fat, will increase weight. If you burn 2500 kcal and consume 3000, that leaves a surplus of 500. It doesn’t matter which macronutrient provides the extra calories.

Eating only high glycemic carbs without a buffer of protein or fat to smooth out the sugar spike usually results in a sugar crash and hunger pangs. Solution: don’t eat high glycemic carbs alone. Try to eat mainly lower glycemic carbs.

> For the typical insulin resistant person reducgin apetite IS MAGIC.<

And, no doubt an important consideration.

Frankly, I found it a chore to eat enough everyday when I went LC. Adequate protein and fat - and staying away from eating too many high glycemic carbs alone - blunts my appetite enough that I don’t feel terribly compelled to binge. For me, it isn’t a choice between eating cake all day or severely restricting carbs. There is a happy medium.

Perhaps a working definition of LC is needed. When I tried LC 2 years ago I started at about 30 grams per day and then slowly crept up to about 100. I’d say 100 or less is LC for people of average activity and build.

Yesterday I had about 2300 kcal, and after a quick label reading and count, probably about 250-300 grams of carbs (1000 - 1200 kcal). Figure 50% kcal from carbs. (13g carbs in 8 oz. of skim milk - guess the LCers can’t have much of this excellent source of protein.) My diet varies a great deal. Sometimes it works out to Zoneish proportions, but often the carbs are higher. I don’t worry about the exact composition. Adequate protein, adequate EFAs, let the rest come from wherever. If I want pasta I eat pasta. Same goes for cheeseburgers (with buns :) ) or whatever else sounds good or is readily available.

RB,

>Hobby, are you serious when you say carbs are not evil? I agree not all carbs are. But surely the excess consumption of sugar and refined flour in this society and the rapid rise in diabetes and heart disease leads me to believe that these two carbs are indeed very evil and should be avoided like the plague.<

Of course I’m serious. 20 years ago fat was “evil.” Now carbs and/or insulin is the demon of the day. Being overweight and inactive increases the risk for diabetes and heart disease. The problem is people eat too much and move too little.

LC will curb your appetite. Eat less and/or exercise more and you’ll lose weight regardless of the macronutrient ratios. If you feel good eating LC, have at it. Not everyone does.

>As far as a metabolic advantage by not counting calories, If I ignore the cited studies, if I ignore Dr. Atkins case studies presented in the book based on actual CARDIAC patients or any other anecdotal evidence, I can’t ignore my own experience. Originally starting Atkins, I ate a TON of fat, well over my daily need, and the fat melted off.<

You mean you pissed out the water weight. There is no “metabolic advantage.” Research has repeatedly demonstrated real changes in weight (not water loss) scale with caloric intake alone. Macronutrient ratios do not matter. See this for a quick recent summary. If you eat more than you burn, where praytell, does the excess energy go? Do pixies come in the night and whisk it away?

Even Dr. Atkins can’t violate the laws of thermodynamics.

1) The absorption rate of protein carbs and fat is something like 95%-98% (equal for all). It’s not as if you’re shitting out undigested fat or protein. The calories you eat are taken in by the body.

2) Keto diets are not more thermogenic than other diets - your body temp isn’t going up and burning off more calories.

3) Excretion of unused keytones only accounts for a maximum of 100 kcal per day - hardly enough to cause significant weight loss.

>For people like myself, this way of eating is a godsend, it really teaches you how to avoid the roller coaster <

If you like eating LC, go for it. But it’s not magic. ;)

> I think if you would read the book his book and fully understand his approach, you would be totally shocked to find out that the diet you listed above is exactly what Dr. Atkins promotes<

I have read his book. More importantly, I’ve read Lyle’s book which actually explains how the body responds to LC without the Atkins lies about some mythical ketogenic advantage. My diet is not LC. Some days, depending on my total caloric intake, I may get as much as 75% of my calories from carbs. Other days, maybe only 30%. It’s the calories that matter. Above maintenance, you gain weight. Below maintenace you lose weight. One caution though: if you create too much of a deficit your body will adjust metabolism to compensate. If/when that happens, it’s time for a refeed to bump up leptin, thyroid, etc.

TT,

Google “paleolithic diet.”

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