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Differences between extenders and hanging?

The point is to extend the penis at a given length with the minimal required force. After some minutes the tension is applied, tissue adapts to the tension, so it can more easily be stretched at that length. That’s how stress relaxation works.

Another hint: this is a study published many times on this forum:

“The penile extender, a traction device for the dedicated — to be used at least six hours a day for at least six months — is not only safe and effective, doctors say, but also can increase erection size and improve erectile function. The results appear in the March issue of the journal BJU International.

(For my own sanity, I confirmed that BJU stands for British Journal of Urology, which isn’t mentioned at all within the journal.)
…….
Gontero’s group recruited 15 “highly motivated” men, according to the journal article, and instructed them to use the penile extender for six months. Per the manufacturer’s instructions, the men gradually increased the traction force during this period from 1.3 pounds to 2.6 pounds. The gains were greatest in the first months and then leveled off.

All gains remained six months after the contraption was put to rest. The men gained on average 0.9 inches in flaccid length, a 32 percent gain, and about a half-inch in stretched length to 4.45 inches, which could imply a slightly larger erection. “
http://www.livescience.com/health/090311-bad-size.html

You can see that the tension was in the range of 1.3 - 2.6 pounds; the gains were greater when the tension was low (first months).

There is also this thread
Penimaster anyone tried it?

penimaster was one of the first extenders. It’s tension was in the 0.5- 2.6 lbs, the manufacterers advised never to wear it at max tension, so most of people who tried it did - and had gains.

But that doesn’t answer anything. The studies done with extenders did not measure stretched length in treatment. They measured the tension at which the penis was held over the hours of treatment each day. That was the methodology used during the extender studies. I do not know what stress relaxation

I do not know what stress relaxation is. Extended length WAS NOT how treatment was measured and administered. I have said this already. It was via tension. Tension!

This is probably the worst of the studies, but this is the only one I have in my bookmarks at the moment.

Quote
NATIONAL CONGRESS OF THE SPANISH ASSOCIATION OF ANDROLOGY
(ASOCIACIÓN ESPAÑOLA DE ANDROLOGÌA - ASESA)
March 28, 29 and 30, 2001, Alicante (SPAIN)

Report Title
TREATMENT OF PEYRONIE’S DISEASE
VIA MECHANICAL TRACTION, JES EXTENDER®
A prospective study in 26 males

Introduction
The traction force applied upon the tissues results in an adaptation reaction at a structural level, due to the suppression of an inhibitor factor related with cellular division, which thereby results in cellular duplication and therefore, the expansion of the tissues. This principle has successfully been applied for quite some time for different medical purposes, among which the treatment of skin lesions, the loss of peyronies diseasetissue and post-radiation scars are the most important. The origin of the fibrotic plaque in Peyronie´s disease still remains an unanswered question. The histological studies carried out so far confirm the presence of high concentrations of type-III collagen in the plaque, having been compared with hyperplastic scar tissue and keloids. The “maturation” of the fibrous tissue scars is produced via the translocation of collagen fibers, which takes place secondary to the traction forces that the fibroblasts oppose to the cellular contraction forces. The higher the concentration of type-III collagen in the fibrotic tissue, the stronger the contraction force is. The continuous mechanical traction on the penis in Peyronie´s disease stimulates cellular division and, therefore, the expansion of the healthy tissues and finally exerts an opposing force to the contraction force of the collagen.

Population and methods
A prospective study has been performed in 26 males who had been diagnosed as having Peyronie´s disease and were treated during a 6 month-period with the mechanical traction devise, exerting a pressure in the range of 1,200 and 1,500 g. The mean age was 50.8 (30 - 68) years old and the mean evolution time of the disease was 25.6 (2 - 72) months. Multiple fibrotic plaques were identified in 6 cases and just one in 19 patients. The long axis of the plaque was equal to or less than 3 cm in 20 cases; 11 patients referred sensorial disturbances of the penis and 21 presented with erectile dysfunction.

Outcomes
Mean values of the assessed parameters before the enrollment, and at 3 and 6 months after treatment was performed are expressed in Table I.

Conclusions
After a 6-month treatment, the plaque disappeared in 7 cases (26.9%) and a marked decrease in the number, size and consistency of the plaque was observed in 18 (69.2%). Likewise, 13 (61.9%) patients recovered their erectile function and 10 (90.9%) recovered their sensitivity in the penis.peyronies disease treatment graph
The mechanical traction on the penis has a beneficial effect on the fibrotic plaque that is usually clinically evident via the reduction of the size and consistency of the plaque, the correction of the curvature angle, the recovery of the length of the penis, and the improvement in the quality of the erection

Oral Presentation by
J. Ruiz-Romero, MD; J. Ponce de León, MD - Department of Urology and Andrology, Clínica Tres Torres, w/ Dr. Carulla, 112 - 08017 Barcelona (España).

J. Ruiz-Romero, MD; J. Ponce de León, MD
Department of Urology and Andrology, Clínica Tres Torres, w/ Dr. Carulla, 112 - 08017 Barcelona (Spain).

When my bandwidth becomes unrestricted again I will show you more.


Starting Stats - 5.5 NBPEL x 5.6 EG

Current Stats - 5.7 NBPEL x 6.2 EG

Goal - 7 x 6 (with hopefully a large flaccid hang)

Originally Posted by marinera
Another hint: this is a study published many times on this forum:

“The penile extender, a traction device for the dedicated — to be used at least six hours a day for at least six months — is not only safe and effective, doctors say, but also can increase erection size and improve erectile function. The results appear in the March issue of the journal BJU International.

(For my own sanity, I confirmed that BJU stands for British Journal of Urology, which isn’t mentioned at all within the journal.)
…….
Gontero’s group recruited 15 “highly motivated” men, according to the journal article, and instructed them to use the penile extender for six months. Per the manufacturer’s instructions, the men gradually increased the traction force during this period from 1.3 pounds to 2.6 pounds. The gains were greatest in the first months and then leveled off.

All gains remained six months after the contraption was put to rest. The men gained on average 0.9 inches in flaccid length, a 32 percent gain, and about a half-inch in stretched length to 4.45 inches, which could imply a slightly larger erection. “
http://www.livescience.com/health/090311-bad-size.html

You can see that the tension was in the range of 1.3 - 2.6 pounds; the gains were greater when the tension was low (first months).

There is also this thread
Penimaster anyone tried it?

penimaster was one of the first extenders. It’s tension was in the 0.5- 2.6 lbs, the manufacterers advised never to wear it at max tension, so most of people who tried it did - and had gains.

This post makes me think you and I are arguing at cross purposes.

I am not discussing the amounts of tension. I am putting forward that stretched length is not what is important with an extender, and is not what is advised by the makers of such devices, nor by those who have done studies with them. The studies were run measuring tension, not stretched length.

Might I add I am not advocating maximum tension, I am advocating the slightest amount of tension needed to compress the springs, preferrably in line with the studies run. So much so do I believe it, that I have swapped out the original springs and added weaker ones to be in line with the studies I have read.


Starting Stats - 5.5 NBPEL x 5.6 EG

Current Stats - 5.7 NBPEL x 6.2 EG

Goal - 7 x 6 (with hopefully a large flaccid hang)

If you don’t know what stress relaxation is, why don’t give a read to the thread I linked? :)

The goal of my previous post was to suggest that, despite the different force applied by different extenders, gains were pretty much the same. The basic factor when using extenders is time, not force - high force is actually counter productive. This is due to the properties of Tunica Albuginea.

Studies list tension because it is easier to speak of tension used than showing a list of different lengths for a relatively large number of patients.

Anyway, I don’t want you to convince of anything, just trying to give some informations. :)

My big question is more, how easy is it to get a study on Pubmed? I wonder how much validity these studies carry.


Starting Stats - 5.5 NBPEL x 5.6 EG

Current Stats - 5.7 NBPEL x 6.2 EG

Goal - 7 x 6 (with hopefully a large flaccid hang)

Originally Posted by marinera
If you don’t know what stress relaxation is, why don’t give a read to the thread I linked? :)

The goal of my previous post was to suggest that, despite the different force applied by different extenders, gains were pretty much the same. The basic factor when using extenders is time, not force - high force is actually counter productive. This is due to the properties of Tunica Albuginea.

Studies list tension because it is easier to speak of tension used than showing a list of different lengths for a relatively large number of patients.

Anyway, I don’t want you to convince of anything, just trying to give some informations. :)

Ok now I am really confused. What you mention above was never really brought into the discussion.

I agree with lower force at longer time being more effective, but that would be, and is, completely the opposite of hangers. Some I have seen start with 8 pounds (3.6kg) which is more than double the max that I would ever go to with an extender…

It seems like we agree. I am not sure what you meant when you said “I think Alin is right, Boner.” Or did you mean most extender users would set a tension and leave it at that for the whole session? Which meant over the session tension would decrease?

One thing though, studies list tension because that is what they worked by. Nothing to do with easier or harder, tension was the variable they worked with, that was the primary factor.


Starting Stats - 5.5 NBPEL x 5.6 EG

Current Stats - 5.7 NBPEL x 6.2 EG

Goal - 7 x 6 (with hopefully a large flaccid hang)

Originally Posted by boner7484
My big question is more, how easy is it to get a study on Pubmed? I wonder how much validity these studies carry.

Hard to say. I suppose there are some minimal required standards to have a study published - more abiding to a basic protocol than anything else. I don’t think the instructions on the device’ guide are really based on any scientific study, anyway - don’t believe they have tried with a group of people wearing the device at x tension for y time, another group wearing at x+z for y time and so, if it’s clear what I mean.

Ok I read the stress relexation thread, and it is basically states a point I had already made with regards to raising tension once you notice it has dropped. I answered the stress relaxation point the moment it was brought up by Alin.


Starting Stats - 5.5 NBPEL x 5.6 EG

Current Stats - 5.7 NBPEL x 6.2 EG

Goal - 7 x 6 (with hopefully a large flaccid hang)

Originally Posted by boner7484
Ok I read the stress relexation thread, and it is basically states a point I had already made with regards to raising tension once you notice it has dropped. I answered the stress relaxation point the moment it was brought up by Alin.

I didn’t say you must raise the tension once the tension dropped, I was just saying what stress relaxation(a phenomenon which applies to many kind of materials which are stretched) has to do with extenders, because if you want to go the official path, the extender manufacturers don’t say to increase the tension regularly by unscrewing the threads, while in the extender, for the whole session. That means the penis stretched to x length(with more or less tension), will relax and as you saw you must increase the length to get more tension. As I said earlier, when talking about length here is analogous(http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/analogous) to tension as they seem to be proportional “When a spring is suddenly stretched (increased strain applied), the tension (stress) that is generated is proportional to the change in length (i.e., Hookean behavior). ” http://www.cvphysiology.com/Blood%20Pressure/BP027.htm

I think the concept is understood and we should focus on adding other interesting things to the discussion. :)


Starting stats: 6.4" / 5.6" Current Stats: 7.4" / 5.8" Short term goal: 7" / 6" Long term goal: 8" / 6.5"

Originally Posted by boner7484
Ok now I am really confused. What you mention above was never really brought into the discussion.

I agree with lower force at longer time being more effective, but that would be, and is, completely the opposite of hangers. Some I have seen start with 8 pounds (3.6kg) which is more than double the max that I would ever go to with an extender…
….


When you stretch connective tissue, the lower the force you use, the more the deformation that will remain when you’ll drop the force; the longer you applied the force, the longer the deformation will remain. Tunica albuginea is connective tissue. Extenders do work on this principle. Force is a means to reach a goal - lengthening the tissue. What an extender is about : “If you hold a tissue at a given length for a given amount of time, it will tend ro remain at that given length”. Stress relaxation means that this lengthening will be easier if you don’t change the tension for some minutes. If you keep augmenting the force, the tissue will react like an elastic; over time it will also strengthen.

Hanging is not analogous to using a stretcher, in it’s purpose: it is about applying a medium to high weigth for a medium amount of time (15-20 minutes) cyclically (for a number of sets). The goal is to cause some minor tears in the tissue. So said, experienced hangers advice also to start with a very low weight and I think they could also agree that weight is just a means, not a goal. Hanging is not weigthlifting, quite the adverse. 8 lbs is probably more than advised as starting weight, I think most of hangers would suggest starting with 3-5 lbs.

Side note: the average force to stretch a penis in it’s flaccid state to it’s EL is about 600 grams. That’s probably why your extender starts at that force. :)

Originally Posted by marinera

Side note: the average force to stretch a penis in it’s flaccid state to it’s EL is about 600 grams. That’s probably why your extender starts at that force. :)

Edit: not your extender, the extender of the study cited here

marinera - Differences between extenders and hanging?

Two points you have posted are at odds with regards to the question at hand.

Either it is better to have the penis at low tensions for a long period, OR it is better to have it at high tension for a short period. Which is it?

What I have learnt from the discussion is that if time and force are equal, there is zero difference between hangers and extenders. Or to be more specific, the one and only diffrerence between extenders and hangers is the constancy of tension (if the extender user adjusts tension when necessary).


Starting Stats - 5.5 NBPEL x 5.6 EG

Current Stats - 5.7 NBPEL x 6.2 EG

Goal - 7 x 6 (with hopefully a large flaccid hang)

Originally Posted by boner7484

……

Either it is better to have the penis at low tensions for a long period, OR it is better to have it at high tension for a short period. Which is it?

A low tensions for a long period of time. Better whe sould say ‘the right tension’, meaning the minimal required tension to hold your penis at a given length. Why so? If you use more force than that, your penis will tend to strengthen faster, so even more force will be required, and time will come that your extender will be unuseful.

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