Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Cool Down - YES You NEED It!

Originally Posted by wantsmore
Then my next hypothesis would be that IF ticktickticker keeps this up THEN he’s definitely going to see some gains.

He will keep this up.

Btw, pe-stat-wise we are pretty much on the same rout as it looks :)


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by foomaaa

Assuming firegoat approves (you’re a doctor, right?).

I am not a medical doctor. I specialise in muscle, tendon, ligament and joint injuries in athletes, and the general populace.


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

I would suggest that your calculations are useless because - as you pointed out - dicks are not made of metal, and collagen specifically isn’t either. In the us this kind of calculation is named GIGI-calculation if I recall correctly: garbage in - garbage out :) .

Nevertheless, your conclusion is correct (as this happens occasionally in science - wrong argument, correct conclusion).

Regarding burns - pudendum already said it: not recommended ..

Originally Posted by foomaaa
I have a feeling we’re on to something here. Here are some of my thoughts, that will require us to look at the penis (or at least the collagen) in a way similar to metals, which it is not. Therefore, everything I say here may not apply, but I’ll write it down anyway:

Metals generally have a recrystallization temperature of 0.4 times their melting point. I’ve read that collagen melts at 215 degrees, so this would be at about 90 degrees. This is important because when the metal goes down form this temperature, it’s rate of cooling will dictate a lot of it’s properties.
The other thing we should take into account it creep. This is when a force is exerted on a metal, and over time it slowly elongates, and then snaps. This is a material failure, and occurs at 0.3 times the melting temperature, which about 65 degrees for collagen.

I could have easily made a mistake, so if you’re interested then could you please verify my numbers?

What I’m getting at is that metals (and hopefully penises) can, potentially, elongate more easily at higher temperatures. Metals can be reshaped or machined at higher temperatures, requiring less energy from the machine (but still could require more energy to heat the metal).

I’m sorry I’ve been dragging on, and I can’t really make one thing lead directly into another, but here’s what I’m thinking. If our penises can be stretched longer at higher temperatures, and are then cooled while maintained in the same position, we are trying to “reforge” our penises so they are longer (without melting them, of course). Basically, given the assumption that there’s any correlation with our penises and metal (and there very well may not be), cooling down the penis once it is stretched would be far more effective if the penis can be stretched longer when it is at a higher temperature.

I’m writing this to say that my intuition agrees that cooling down may help grow the penis, but also to propose an experiment with anyone who’s willing to help out (and who has a thermometer).

I was wondering if people could measure their penises bpfsl at room temperature, and again at the temperature of, say, a hot shower (please record it) and let us know? Assuming firegoat approves (you’re a doctor, right?) Please don’t burn yourselves though!


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by Sacred
Can this ‘cooling down’ apply to girth work?

Yes (since girth is circumferential length (tunica-wise) - quote: pudendum (my favorite quote).


Later - ttt

I’m still trying to get my head around the temperatures that foomaa is talking about - 90°C for collagen recrystallization (which is about 194°F) is WAY WAY too hot to be of any use in PE. Even the other approximation for “reshaping” (65°C/148°F) is too hot…I’m going to have to find a thermometer and figure out the approximate temperature of my rice sock. My guess is that fresh from the microwave, my rice sock is hanging closer to 50°C/122°F.

Originally Posted by ticktickticker

I would suggest that your calculations are useless because - as you pointed out - dicks are not made of metal, and collagen specifically isn’t either. In the us this kind of calculation is named GIGI-calculation if I recall correctly: garbage in - garbage out :) .

Nevertheless, your conclusion is correct (as this happens occasionally in science - wrong argument, correct conclusion).

Regarding burns - pudendum already said it: not recommended ..

GIGI would be garbage in - garbage in. :)

Foomaa, your comments about creep are valid, and creep is a phenomena observed in many materials, not just metals.

With the heating of collagen however, we aren’t going through any crystalization, or phase changes, just making the tangled up large molecules more mobile and perhaps more likely to rearrange.


Horny Bastard

Originally Posted by mravg
Ice directly on the penis shaft would be different than jumping into cold water however:
1. The body would not divert blood flow to the core. In fact, the ice may cause contraction of the veins and hold blood in the penis.
2. The phenomena of freezing the stretched collagen in place would occur.
3. The muscle contraction and retraction of the ligs would not occur.

Now I must admit that I don’t know if any of what I said is true. :)
However, I propose it as a way to explain the observation that ice causes improved flaccid size rather than turtling as you might expect.

Well… sounds like you are right on target to me.

Originally Posted by mravg
1. The body would not divert blood flow to the core. In fact, the ice may cause contraction of the veins and hold blood in the penis.


You are correct - there is tons of evidence to support for this fact. Whether the vascluar constriction holds blood in the penis is not known.
But it would appear to do so since many (including myself) report hanging fuller after a cool down.

Quote
Ice is a vaso-constrictor (it causes the blood vessels to narrow) and it limits internal bleeding at the injury site.
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/…/heatorcold.htm


Quote
With regard to the circulatory system, cold causes constriction of small arteries and veins, by direct stimulation of the smooth muscle lining these vessels.
http://www.genufix.com/heat_and_cold_therapy.htm

Originally Posted by mravg
2. The phenomena of freezing the stretched collagen in place would occur.


This is also very logical. As I stated earlier I recall reading that collagen turns to gel at 140 F. Now, granted we don’t reach penile temperatures of 140 F. But, the elevated temperatures certainly soften and make the collage (and probably other tissues) more pliable.
This is caused by increased molecular activity as a result of elevated temperatures. This is why heat makes stretching more effective.

Quote
Superficial heat has been proven advantageous in the remodeling of connective tissue.

Quote
Another physiologic effect of heat is an alteration of the viscous flow properties of collagen which results in the relief of joint stiffness.3 Lastly, there is an increase in the extensibility of collagen tissue, a major component of connective tissue, through changes in its viscoelastic properties following the application of heat.

http://www.activebodyclinic.com/core_Physio_heat.html

So, being that heat makes collagen softer and easier to stretch, the reverse would also be true. Cold makes collagen harder and more difficult to stretch. This is why I am an advocate of ice. I think the lower the temperature (within reason) the less molecular activity and therefore the greater retention in sustained length. There is no doubt cold makes things less pliable. I think while a cool compress or natural cooling may be effective. It will fail to retard the visoelastic properties of connective tissues as effectively as ice. And, it will do so at a much slower rate.

Quote
In contrast to heat, cold has been found to increase. connective tissue stiffness.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/…203746/ABSTRACT

Originally Posted by mravg
3. The muscle contraction and retraction of the ligs would not occur. I would say this is also true. Why? Well, because


1.) the shaft and glans of the penis contains no skeletal muscle to contract.
2.)As far connective tissue and smooth muscle go, we are mechanically keeping the penis extended thereby hindering contraction.

I have quoted the following article several times touting the benefits of heating and cooling in PE. I thought I would post the entire article and highlight (in bold) the points I though were very interesting and had application for us. I posted the entire article so I could highlight some interesting facts. I hope you find it useful.

Heat Application in Physiotherapy
Limitation of motion is a major area of concern in rehabilitation. Thus, one of the most relevant and important goals in Physiotherapy is the restoration of the client’s full range of motion (ROM) in an attempt to maximize function. The shortening of connective tissue or the formation of new connective tissue often causes decreased motion. Superficial heat has been proven advantageous in the remodeling of connective tissue.

Connective tissue shortening or formation will result in several problematic conditions. Provided full ROM exercises are not performed following injury, connective tissue will gradually shorten with time and joint contractures will develop. In addition, adhesion formation, which is an abnormal adherence of collagen fibers to surrounding structures, restricts normal elasticity of the structures involved by preventing these structures form gliding past one another. Further limitations of mobility are due to formation of scar tissue from lacerations, burns and crush injuries.9

There are definite advantages to applying superficial heat to remodel connective tissue. Perhaps the most important is an increase in joint mobility. This is caused by three mechanisms. First, heat creates several physiologic changes through subsequent vascular changes, causing vasodilation. This dilation gives an analgesic effect which increases the client’s pain threshold and results in greater tolerance of connective tissue stretching. Another physiologic effect of heat is an alteration of the viscous flow properties of collagen which results in the relief of joint stiffness.3 Lastly, there is an increase in the extensibility of collagen tissue, a major component of connective tissue, through changes in its viscoelastic properties following the application of heat. This is an important effect of heat due to the long-term remodelling of connective tissue.7,9

The main goal in the clinical treatment of adhesions, contractures, scar tissue or other connective tissue problems is the production of permanent collagenous tissue elongation. Numerous studies have concluded that the most effective means of attaining this result is through the combination of temperature elevation and the application of prolonged stretch thus altering the viscoelastic properties of connective tissue. 5,9,16 Collagen has viscous properties which allow a residual elongation after a load is applied then released. This phenomenon is known as plastic deformation. Furthermore, its elastic properties allow for recoverable deformation which is a return to its original length after stretch is applied then released. As mentioned above, elevated temperatures increase the extensibility of collagen. Therefore, when a load is applied to heated tissue then released, greater plastic deformation results (increased residual length) and thus permanent elongation of the connective tissue.9

Lehman and associates (1970) studied the effects of heat and stretching on rat tail tendons.6 The results indicated that heating alone produced no significant elongation and that stretching alone produced no residual elongation. Significant elongation occurred if heat and stretch were combined. A greater increase in length was maintained if the stretch was held during the period of cooling since “reorganization of the tissues is thought to occur during the cooling period.”6 Overall, the most effective method of producing a plastic deformation of connective tissue was to apply a sustained stretch during the application of heat and to maintain the stretch during the period of cooling.

Similar experiments using rat tail tendons have been conducted by Warren et al (1976) regarding permanent elongation of connective tissue at various temperatures.16 The data showed that the application of low force over a long duration was very effective in producing slow elongation in the viscous elements, resulting in increased residual elongation. Furthermore, elevating tissue temperature and maintaining it prior to applying force was found to cause significantly less tissue damage. Lastly, the lower loads applied at elevated temperatures for prolonged periods were found to produce significantly greater residual elongation.16 The clinical implications of this study are three fold: first, [/b]stretches used to increase ROM should be held for prolonged periods;[/b] second, warming tissue prior to ROM exercises will cause less tissue damage; and third, stretching should be accompanied with the highest possible therapeutic temperature for prolonged periods to most effectively increase joint mobility.

Although these therapeutic effects are beneficial, special consideration should be given to patients with rheumatoid arthritis. As Harris and McCroskery (1974) note, “excessive heat therapy harms joints by [increasing intrarticular temperature and thus] increasing the rate of collagen breakdown by specific collagenases.”1 It is for this reason that Oosterveld et al (1992, 1994) recommend that cold applications are most effective in the treatment of arthritis.10,11 They advise that if the patient nevertheless prefers heat, it should last no more than 5 to 10 minutes.10

It is evident that superficial heat is an effective modality that Physiotherapists can use in the remodelling of connective tissue. Studies have effectively shown that superficial heat therapy increases connective tissue elongation. Hence, its use is recommended to assist a patient maximize his or her mobility and functional capacity.


Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.

Louis Pasteur

The corpus spongiosum and corpus cavernosum are made up of elastic and smooth muscle fibers, the cool down makes sense I’m going to try it out tonight. The only thing with the CS is that while stretching it I’m worried about possibly damaging my urethra since it lies inside the CS.

Originally Posted by whatsup2

The only thing with the CS is that while stretching it I’m worried about possibly damaging my urethra since it lies inside the CS.

Your urethra easily stretches to accommodate an erection and has enough elasticity to stretch more if needed. If you are doing girth type exercises, jelqing etc., these are done with a level of erection that protects the urethra from direct manual pressure. Check the injuries forum; you do occasionally see mention of blood from the urethra, but it is fairly rare, and usually associated with ‘extreme’ PE.


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

Damn now I have to do a cool down now too lol, if I put anything cold near my penis its like giving Clark Kent Kryponyte, how to you get around that.

I’d rather use cold water than ice will that still be ok ?

—Relieved to see Cooldown Subject Has Attention—
I’ve been spending a lot of time on this forum & this is the first time I have run into this.

With a background in athletics (retiring after the collegiate level) I was perplexed that there was no mention of a cool down or icing — or so I had thought. I’m relieved (and not surprised) to see this has already been discussed at length on this forum.

—Lightweight Question—

Originally Posted by lightweight
Damn now I have to do a cool down now too lol, if I put anything cold near my penis it’s like giving Clark Kent Kryponyte, how to you get around that.
I’d rather use cold water than ice will that still be ok ?


It was already noted that Big Girtha swam in 50 degree water for a cooldown.

I can also say from personal experience in athletics, this is an old concept (nothing new), and we used cold water for recovery all the time. For a full body recovery we would make a ‘cold bath’, but filling a metal basic large enough to fit our full body inside with 50 degree water. We would then dump ice into the basin until there was plenty of ice in there to significantly drop the temperature. We would then sit in the basin (with neoprene on our feet, and the crotch too), neck-deep, for 15 minutes. By the end of the 15 minutes, you’re shivering and your entire body is quite chilled.

The benefit? I would estimate this process cut recovery time more than in half for me (e.g. I would be sore for one day instead of 4 days sometimes). It was especially effective if I had multiple injuries (having several ice bags on you just isn’t practical sometimes).

I think to some extent, you may just have to see what works for you (washcloth/ cold water/ ice/ gel pack/ something else cold)

—Cooldown Fundamentals—
I have a question in general about this post, and I want to see if I understand the fundamentals here.

The primary concepts or application of a COOL DOWN seems to be:
1-Don’t cool your penis more than 2-3 minutes, cool it in an elongated state & avoid cooling to an extent that it causes the penis to turtle.
2-Use a washcloth, cold water, or ice if you prefer. Use personal judgment and stop if you reach the point of numbness.

—Contradictory Point: Which is correct—
Here’s one point I’m looking for clarification on; I encountered two contradicting views on this thread:
3-Do you cool only when your penis is inflamed or tracking towards an injury
OR
Do I cool after each workout?

Any more information or experience about this?

Originally Posted by blink2000

—Contradictory Point: Which is correct—

Here’s one point I’m looking for clarification on; I encountered two contradicting views on this thread:

3-Do you cool only when your penis is inflamed or tracking towards an injury

OR

Do I cool after each workout?

Most guys suggesting trying icing/cooling are talking about cooling after every workout.

The inflamed/excessive session/closing in on or having produced an injury, is primarily my input. It makes physiological sense to use ice in these instances regardless of your growth aims.

Neither idea is correct or incorrect. Like much of PE, it’s a ‘try it for yourself’ situation. I ice after heavier sessions, but just allow my penis to return to room temperature slowly under light load after most sessions. I would probably ice more often if I had more time!


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

Originally Posted by firegoat
… but just allow my penis to return to room temperature slowly under light load after most sessions. I would probably ice more often if I had more time!

You know I always “warmed” down with a warm wrap-similar to warming up. I’ve missed out the keeping my penis “extended” during this part of PE. Also never thought of allowing it to cool down naturally with a light stretch, thanks for the food for thought.

Top

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:55 PM.