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Cool Down - YES You NEED It!

kingpole, you are simply heating, stretching, and then cooling while in an extended state. I don’t feel a “warm down” period is necessary,
but, that is just my own opinion from my personal experience.

To each his own, as far as what method is used. I use an ice pack and am very happy with this method. I started with ice for several reasons. One, it has effectively been used by doctors, physical therapist for years to treat injuries, sprains, etc. Another is, I want to cool
rapidly. The faster you can “congeal” the collagen to a less mobile state the better. If you are stretching manually, the hand and arm get tired and you can loose some of your pull. And lastly, because it was the medium used in the study.

Quote
“Other studies dealt with the subsequent elasticity of the connective tissue, i.e., ligaments and tendons, after the application of ice… Therefore, for best results, stretching of the part should be maintained while cooling the tendon. This was found to produce a longer-lasting increase in length than those treatments in which the stretch was stopped after heat was applied.

This study used the application of ice with success. Granted, excessive cooling will produce turtling. No doubt about it. Connective tissue will shrink up under very cold temps. I only apply ice for 2-3 minutes and I have never experinced any turtling. It only hangs longer and fuller. But to each his own. The key is don’t over do it. But, as I always say, do what works for you.


Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.

Louis Pasteur

After a PE session, I do a cool down (5-10) with cold water in the shower, while doing holds and kegeling hard.

Maybe you should try.

I see where you’re at iguana and can readily see why you’re rocking the ice, and even how if it’s used very sparingly [just enough time to “freeze” the collagen] that such methods are infinitely superior to doing a non stretched warmdown.

That said, for the point of PE science, and with no thought of disrespecting the other’s point of view, let’s put our lab coats on and think about this as brothers in the science of PE and all that…

While I understand your reasoning for ice, and even the fact that there’s efficacy here, what I doubt is that it’s optimal efficacy.

First, when researchers are conducting experiments with tissue samples to determine something [in this case, the elasticity of said tissue at given temperatures] they frequently make the conditions at which they collect a data point extreme to facilitate the liklihood of something to observe at said data collection point.

i.e. If they gather data at room temperature and at one degree below room temperature, then the spread of temp is so marginal as to hinder the formation of a conclusion. AND, formation of a conclusion is all they are after. So, what do they do? In the first stages of such investigations, they will get things very hot and then very cold and then take data at waypoints between [and including] the two poles.

However, just because such extremes [running the gamut between heating and icing] are used to create enough “space” between the data to form a solid conclusion, it in no way implies that said data [or techniques used to produce them] represent the optimal way to achieve the effect collected in the data set [locking lengthened collagen fibres]. Additionally, the data set was likely produced while usind dead tissue samples [rat tails]- sic. therefore, producing optimal results on LIVE tissues may be somewhat different than what were used to produce conclusive data in an experiment using dead tissues.

Secondly, One of your points for ice is that:

Originally Posted by iguana
I started with ice for several reasons. One, it has effectively been used by doctors, physical therapist for years to treat injuries, sprains, etc.


Again, while I understand the reasoning, and even the fact that there’s efficacy here, what I doubt is that it’s optimal efficacy.

What I question about this is the fact that making sure that the collagen fibres stay lengthened during cooling and using ice the way doctors and PT practitioners do seem to me to be totally different things. In fact, many of the reasons that doctors want to use ice as a curative [esp. it’s anti-inflamatory action] actually run contrary to what we want to do with PE.

My hypothesis would therefore run thus: IF you keep the penis maximally extended after your PE workout and allow it to cool gradually, and over as long a time as possible THEN you will minimalize the contraction of the collagenous tissues AND maximalize the amount of permanent elongation. I also assert that rapid temperature drops [as occurs when iicing said tissues] MUST NECESSARILY result in RAPID CONTRACTION, however miniscule, and should therefore be avoided.

When a doctor/Phys. therapist ices down tissues, he is avidly seeking this contractile response as well as seeking to slow down the metabolism of the affected area to hinder the buildup of injury metabolites. By doing so, he retards a percentage of the pain and tissue injury that may occur as a result of the trauma.

Very different stuff than what we are after in my opinion.

I now leave this open for the esteemed perusal of my colleague, Dr. Iguana.

:leftie:


THEN: bpel 6.0 eg 5.0 bpfsl 6.125 NOW: bpel 7.375 eg 5.25 bpfsl 7.625

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Right now our only hope is in the hydrogen bomb." - Charles Bukowski

I did a cool down today, and I don’t really care for it.

It didn’t feel right extending/stretching with ice on… felt like something would break, and if you think about it, it kind of makes sense.


Start Dec 10 \'07: BPEL 6 2/16" | EG 5 1/4"

Feb 4: BPEL 6 11/16" | EG 5 2/4"

Short Term Goal: BPEL 7" | EG 5 3/4" Long Term Goal: BPEL 7 3/4 - 8" | EG 6"

Can this ‘cooling down’ apply to girth work? By this I don’t mean temporary lymphatic fluid build-up.
I mean actual temp girth gains experienced from jelqing/pumping/clamping.

Right now I’ve just done a killer workout. By penis is fatter than i’ve ever seen it. Although this is mostly lymphatic fluid since its right after a workout, judging from the size of my head I have gained a little girth for now…would it be a good move to slap on the cock-ring and ‘cool down’?

I read somewhere here someone was using an ice pack on the tube after a pump session. If what wantsmore said is correct, then pumping with a heat pack for say the first two sessions at 10 mins each followed by one session with no heat pack follow by another session using a cold pack either from the fridge or freezer may deliver the intended results.

i.e. no drastic temperature changes but controlled cooling in the enlarged /stretched state.

Sound feasible to me, I’m going to try it tonight.


Later F. ___________________________________ "My two cents worth, may only be worth 2 cents!"

Originally Posted by wantsmore
However, just because such extremes [running the gamut between heating and icing] are used to create enough “space” between the data to form a solid conclusion, it in no way implies that said data [or techniques used to produce them] represent the optimal way to achieve the effect collected in the data set [locking lengthened collagen fibres]. Additionally, the data set was likely produced while usind dead tissue samples [rat tails]- sic. Therefore, producing optimal results on LIVE tissues may be somewhat different than what were used to produce conclusive data in an experiment using dead tissues.

My hypothesis would therefore run thus: IF you keep the penis maximally extended after your PE workout and allow it to cool gradually, and over as long a time as possible THEN you will minimalize the contraction of the collagenous tissues AND maximalize the amount of permanent elongation. I also assert that rapid temperature drops [as occurs when iicing said tissues] MUST NECESSARILY result in RAPID CONTRACTION, however miniscule, and should therefore be avoided.
:Leftie:

Very good post.

I fully agree your general remark on experimental design and your specific hypothesis on pe.

In fact my current hanging routine looks like this:

20 minutes max heat max weight

Then remove heat pad and continue 5 min at same weight

Then reduce weight every 5 minutes down to 3”

Then penis weights or the rest of the days.

No ice.


Later - ttt

So should you-

Warm up
Complete routine
Cool Down (2-3 minutes cool shower)

Or

Warm up
Complete Routine
Warm Down
Cool Down

?

You should:

Do the same routine exactly, several sessions in a row. Try a different option of warm down/cool down after each session. See which gives the best prolonged flaccid hang.

Repeat the experiment several times to see if you get the same results each time. You now know what works best for you, when using that particular routine.

Post the results here, including details of the routine and the warm/cool down which gave you the best results. That way we can all learn.

The most important thing is to keep some light stretch during whatever cool down method you use, whether that is just letting your penis return naturally to room temperature, or using a cool shower etc., or using an ice pack.


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

Great advice firegoat, as usual. :up:

Hey Iguana, thanks for the cooling recommendations.

I just saw that I repeated my question a few times even after you’d answered it. I don’t know if I was on the Treo or just not paying attention, but I’ve got it now. What you suggest makes sense.

I have always been opposed to the idea of a cool down, but I think I didn’t understand the concept in the way that it’s been presented here. This makes good sense in the context of continuous heat.


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
In fact my current hanging routine looks like this:

20 minutes max heat max weight

Then remove heat pad and continue 5 min at same weight

Then reduce weight every 5 minutes down to 3”

Then penis weights or the rest of the days.

No ice.


Then my next hypothesis would be that IF ticktickticker keeps this up THEN he’s definitely going to see some gains.

I like your staging of the weights and especially making sure to finish with PE weights after hanging sessions. I have gained from a “routine” that involves nothing more than some very light ‘smores and then ADS’ing with swing weights.

Swing weights/PE weights are the holy grail of ADS’ing/PE in my opinion. An unweighted traction device for ADS’ing? Why, when you can actually have weight swiinging off of your dick.

I’m committed to use weighted ADS for 5 years. On the second year now. I’m positive that I’ll see 2.5 inches of growth in my PE career. Most of that positivity due to my faith in the underlying basic physical/scientific dynamics of tunica stretching/deep heating/extended cool down/weighted ADS.


THEN: bpel 6.0 eg 5.0 bpfsl 6.125 NOW: bpel 7.375 eg 5.25 bpfsl 7.625

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Right now our only hope is in the hydrogen bomb." - Charles Bukowski

Firegoat, Wantsmore, I only recommended ice because it’s what was used effectively in the study and it’s been effective for me. Is it the optimum way to cool? Who knows? It is possible that natural gradual cooling, or cooling with a cold press instead of ice is more effective. Without any comparison studies I don’t’ think anyone can say definitively which method is better. I whole-heartedly agree with you, try a couple of options and see what works best for you.

I can honestly say, icing doesn’t make me turtle. I think that is the biggest fear for most guys. Ice is regarded as Kryptonite for the penis.
We are all probably scarred for life from “cold pool shrinkage” making us paranoid of anything cold touching our prized tool.

Mr. Happy, thank you. You are very welcome! I must say this is not my original idea. There have been many posts in the past from guys recommending cool downs. As remek mentioned, Dustpan has been touting the benefits for a long time. I think the studies I found really help add credibility to the claims and I have to say personally it is working for me. I agree with you in that it makes perfect sense. But like you said it’s kind of counter-intuitive to what we are accustomed to.


Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.

Louis Pasteur

Well, it’s not so much the study, as it is the integration of approach.

If one heats, then stretchs, holds the stretch, then lets go of the stretch and applies a cool pack, or ice… Yikes! Kryptonite, indeed.

However, gradually cooling down from heated state while stretched, before letting go of the stretch, is a much different idea.

I still think ice is problematic. I would think a radical temperature change would shock the tissues and not be of use. Whereas cooling down over a 2-3 minute period would be much better.


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

I have a feeling we’re on to something here. Here are some of my thoughts, that will require us to look at the penis (or at least the collagen) in a way similar to metals, which it is not. Therefore, everything I say here may not apply, but I’ll write it down anyway:

Metals generally have a recrystallization temperature of 0.4 times their melting point. I’ve read that collagen melts at 215 degrees, so this would be at about 90 degrees. This is important because when the metal goes down form this temperature, it’s rate of cooling will dictate a lot of it’s properties.
The other thing we should take into account it creep. This is when a force is exerted on a metal, and over time it slowly elongates, and then snaps. This is a material failure, and occurs at 0.3 times the melting temperature, which about 65 degrees for collagen.

I could have easily made a mistake, so if you’re interested then could you please verify my numbers?

What I’m getting at is that metals (and hopefully penises) can, potentially, elongate more easily at higher temperatures. Metals can be reshaped or machined at higher temperatures, requiring less energy from the machine (but still could require more energy to heat the metal).

I’m sorry I’ve been dragging on, and I can’t really make one thing lead directly into another, but here’s what I’m thinking. If our penises can be stretched longer at higher temperatures, and are then cooled while maintained in the same position, we are trying to “reforge” our penises so they are longer (without melting them, of course). Basically, given the assumption that there’s any correlation with our penises and metal (and there very well may not be), cooling down the penis once it is stretched would be far more effective if the penis can be stretched longer when it is at a higher temperature.

I’m writing this to say that my intuition agrees that cooling down may help grow the penis, but also to propose an experiment with anyone who’s willing to help out (and who has a thermometer).

I was wondering if people could measure their penises bpfsl at room temperature, and again at the temperature of, say, a hot shower (please record it) and let us know? Assuming firegoat approves (you’re a doctor, right?) Please don’t burn yourselves though!

I’m going to take the other side of this discussion, just to be my difficult self.
I like the idea of ice.
The theory of making collagen more fluid and mobile by heating, then stretching, and then locking the new configuration in place by cooling, makes sense to me.

Wantsmore, you talked about the contraction that could be caused by extreme rapid cooling, which is a good point.
However, it is contrary to the observations of Iguana, and others, who report improved flaccid size for extended periods when using ice.

So my theory is that the contraction you speak of, like that which you experience when jumping into cold water, is caused by a couple of different things:
1. Diversion of blood flow from the penis and extremities to the body core.
2. Nervous system reaction causing muscle contraction, and retraction of the ligs that suspend the penis and testicles.

Ice directly on the penis shaft would be different than jumping into cold water however:
1. The body would not divert blood flow to the core. In fact, the ice may cause contraction of the veins and hold blood in the penis.
2. The phenomena of freezing the stretched collagen in place would occur.
3. The muscle contraction and retraction of the ligs would not occur.

Now I must admit that I don’t know if any of what I said is true. :)
However, I propose it as a way to explain the observation that ice causes improved flaccid size rather than turtling as you might expect.


Horny Bastard

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