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Connective tissue- FIRST "THREAD OF THE YEAR"

Originally Posted by hobby
SS4Jelq,

While hanging today I used a heating pad over a damp washcloth as Jelktoid suggested, and I kept it on the whole time, even during the rest periods. I allowed my ligs to air cool only during the last set.

How do you get the heating pad or towel incorporated with the Bib Hanger. Can I press the dry heating pad against the top of my unit to warm the ligs?


Formerly known as Sex&Guns. R.I.P.

I covered the lig area and the exposed shaft behind the hanger. Put the damp washcloth against the skin and the heating pad on top of it. Pressing down lightly helps.

Moist heat works better than dry. Either way, the trick is finding a heating pad that actually gets hot enough. My old one went tits up, and the newer pads I’ve tried were wimpy.

BTW, I’d stick the washcloth in the folded heating pad to keep it warm while attaching/detaching.

Excellent advice.

I know you are a fan of the moist heat. But, how about an infrared lamp? Will this help my cause?


Formerly known as Sex&Guns. R.I.P.

A few guys here seem to like them. I haven’t tried one yet. As long as you heat the tissues to at least 104 degrees the method shouldn’t matter much.

I still think a soak in a (very) hot bath gives the best warmup. Then use a heating pad, rice sock, lamp or whatever during the sets. Hot baths are no fun in summer, so I save them for the colder months.

I understand. One more question.

From the above thread, I should heat up for the first 1/2 of my set, using an infrared lamp, a heating pad, a hot rag, etc. So, the first 10 minutes, I heat to extend, the last 10 minutes, I scrap the heat. Then, between sets, I do NO heating at all. Just minor stretching and resupply of blood?


Formerly known as Sex&Guns. R.I.P.

Originally Posted by 8isEnough
So what does everyone think about the heat up - cool down in the extended state? This seems to be new and unexplored territory, has anyone tried it?

MSP

I’ve read a few threads on this at Thunders. I’ve never tried the cooldown part as I believe it will happen automatically within a minute or so provided that blood is allowed to circulate to take away the heat, but it may a different matter for larger mass areas of the body (legs for example).

Originally Posted by newbie
Totally wrong.

Ai stretching is not about intensity at all.
.

I think we should distinguish between warmup before a stretch in terms of exercise performace, and warm up for plastic deformation. They are two different goals. Generally for exercise we do not want deformation which might lead to laxity of joints and increased injury risk. For PE it is exactly what we want.

Originally Posted by hardatit
That’s great info hobby. It seems to support ADS and Modemmer’s less but more often theory. The addition of ice at the end is radically new. Is it time for another experiment? I just wanted to say thanks for the info Hobby!

I believe the frequency should be considered hand in hand with the intensity of the exercise you are doing. Where on the repair timeline you inflict further trauma may have a lot to do with it:
Deformation: Intensity, Method and Recovery guidelines

I’ve used the Thermotex platinum IR pad to great effect on tunica stretching, but all the articles over simplify the results. I’ve read here (but cannot credit the original author as I don’t remember) it is thought the tunica when deforming tends to thin out, so there is only so much you can permanently deform it before reaching a physical limit before having to quit and let it rebuild at that length, where upon you can start the whole process again. I don’t know if that is true, but my experiences would fit right in line with that if it is. I got something like 1/16” gain each day for 6 days before gains halted abruptly using the heat for 30 mins, then 3 x 30 seconds stretches (reapplying heat momentarity in between). The reason I like the Thermotex is that it gets the temperature into the zone for deformation. Going too high would have the opposite effect where proteins start to denature and you could (in theory) cause shortening.

Most say to heat only the first half of each set. That’s one way to go about it.

Given a constant supply of heat, such as a heating pad, I prefer to heat the whole time, including breaks, until the last set. My routine was:

Run bath water.

Plug in heating pad and set on high. Fold it in half with a damp washcloth in the middle. Get out hanger, wrap, weights, fulcrum rod, timer, etc.

Soak in hellishly hot bath for 12-15 minutes. Dry off and quickly attach hanger. Immediately apply heat. From here on the heat stays on, even during the breaks. I’m trying to maintain the initial warmth from the bath. Fold the washcloth in the heating pad while attaching/detaching to prevent it from cooling down, else it takes a while to heat up again.

Remove heat during or immediately before the last set to allow the tissues to cool under load.

Now that I’m back to using a rice sock I have to nuke it before each set, so the above plan doesn’t work. An IR lamp sounds attractive. I wonder if it would harm hanger’s plastic over time.

>Going too high would have the opposite effect where proteins start to denature and you could (in theory) cause shortening.<

IIRC, the ideal range is 104 to 112 degrees.

I had a thought here about the cool down process that might be a good idea.
I have recently started using golf weights at the end of my hanging session to keep the stretch at a low force. I am going to actually put my golf weight in the freezer over night and take them out when I start my session. Then for my cool down set I will use the cold golf weights.
I had a bad shoulder once and the doc did the weight/heat on the shoulder and then had a ten minute cool down with and ice pack at the end. Seems viable to me to give it a try.

JB

Freezer? Watch out for frostbite. (Explain that one to the Emergency Room nurses!) It might be better to just put them in the frig and try it that way once first. And don’t forget that as they cool, the hole will get smaller, so they’ll be tighter.

RBM

Originally Posted by hobby
http://www.dynasplint.com/pdfs/Contracture.pdf

These others are tidbits from my notes - just quotations with the source URL’s.

http://www.somaticsplus.com/movemen…re/wsa62a2.html

In order to deform, and then reform a ligament into a more desireable length and form, the applied “constant” load must reach over 40% of that particular ligament’s “ultimate load”. A ligament’s ultimate load is defined as “the final load reached by a structure before failure”.

I don’t think the first reference that Hobby cited (the pdf file) is saying that 40% max load is required. It seems to be making the more general statement that low load, long duration works better than high load, short duration.

The second reference talks about how to achieve plastic deformation of ligaments (stretching the spring beyond the point where it can snap back). According to this reference, 40% max load (failure) is required to reach plastic deformation.

But this process seems to be completely different from that of the first ref. The first ref refers to a biological process— “reformation” and “reconstitution” (paraphrasing) of the connective tissue over time, as the body’s way of responding to constant stress. The second ref seems to be based entirely upon the physics of stretched members—a material science process.

I had a roller blading accident a few years ago, and stretched some ligaments in my knees. I could literally bend my knees sideways about 10 degrees (supposed to be 0). That was plastic deformation. But what we’re trying to achieve with our penises is more like the biological process described in the first reference. We’re trying to apply a load over a long period of time to slowly coax the connective tissues to adapt to a longer state. This is not plastic deformation; it is growth.

How much weight is needed? Certainly less than 40% max load. The best answer IMO is probably as little as possible. My sense is that it should still be enough, however, to stretch the penis to the point where the ligs and tunica are under tension. This means using enough force to stretch the penis to its full flaccid stretched length, and then maybe a little bit more.

The trick is to coax the connective tissue to grow. Brava, the breast pump company, suggests using its pump at very low pressure for long periods of time. Breast tissue adapts to the stress by slowly growing. I’m not saying the penises work the same way, but there could certainly be some similarities, as the first reference suggests.

BTW, based on my knee experience, I believe that plastic deformation is really an injury. I don’t want to even think about what the max load of the penis would be. Probably hundreds of pounds.

hobby,

Are you an advocate of light, medium, or heavy weights for gains? What has your history of hanging indicated to you on this?

>We’re trying to apply a load over a long period of time to slowly coax the connective tissues to adapt to a longer state. This is not plastic deformation; it is growth.<

Maybe it’s both. Perhaps the tissues plastically deform until they’ve reached a temporary limit of deformation, then remodel or “grow” into their new stretched size. Once that has occurred they can be plastically deformed again to a new length. If so, both processes should be happening simultaneously to some degree when hanging regularly. Breaks may help by allowing the growth/remodeling part to catch up. I don’t know if I believe that - just throwing out an idea.

>Are you an advocate of light, medium, or heavy weights for gains? What has your history of hanging indicated to you on this?<

I’m for medium.

Light tension such as ADS never did anything for me in itself. I’m convinced a certain amount of tension is required. I think it was in January when I resumed hanging after a break that I noticed I didn’t get any post-session BPFSL increase until I moved up to a certain weight. I’d consider that my minimum working weight. If I can’t measure a temporary increase after a session it must not have been a productive one.

I’ve also never had luck using extremely heavy weight, probably in part because as the weight goes up the time under tension decreases. When relying on creep to lengthen the tissues time is a key factor. I think 4-6 sets at moderate weight is more beneficial than 1-2 heavy. The potential for injury increases as the weight goes up. Also, fewer heavier sets probably cause more of a stregthening adaptation than more moderate loads. The last thing we want is to toughen our ligs without lengthening them much.

I still wonder if this holds any benefit over hanging. One of these days I’ll make an adjustable length stretcher and try their protocol.

jonathanb: I’ve been paying around with the new lead golf weights as an ADS after intense hang sessions. At the beginning of the session I put the weights into a sandwich baggie and cover them with talcum powder, so they get cold, but stay dry. After last hang set I remove all wrap and Fowfer on a heating pad for as long as I can stand it. Then I slip on the cold weights. The fluid buildup that comes from hanging(baseball bat shape) keeps them on comfortably for hours. The lead weights seem to hold the coldness longer than the steel weights, so the cool down period warms up very slowly. I then continue to wear the weights as an ADS until the next session


2003: 6X5 2010: 7X7

No Nukes

Originally Posted by hobby
I think it was in January when I resumed hanging after a break that I noticed I didn’t get any post-session BPFSL increase until I moved up to a certain weight. I’d consider that my minimum working weight. If I can’t measure a temporary increase after a session it must not have been a productive one.

I’d bet a drink on it that if you had the correct temperature on there then your post session increase would very quickly become your standard length within a few days. Great for short term gains but not much use for continued growth (sigh…)

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