That bone-breaking/extension procedure is a grueling, traumatic series of surgeries – it has absolutely nothing to do with PE.
As per scar tissue, I have plenty of scars myself. Scarring is a profound damage to the cells. The DNA itself becomes destroyed/altered/lost – that’s not from jelqing & stretching.
Plastic surgeries vary, but in many instances they inject/insert a foreign object/substance (chin implant, breast implants, silicone, collagen, etc.). I don’t know exactly what your cousin’s procedure entailed, but if they “removed tissue,” then that tissue is gone – cells, DNA & all. If they inserted/injected anything, then that’s a foreign substance. Again, I have no clue what this has to do with natural PE.
Cells can certainly be greatly damaged/lost. Look at severe/chronic sunburns causing melanoma. Those (profoundly) damaged cells do not “return to normal” – obviously. But that’s the result of UV radiation.
Furthermore, I’ve repeatedly acknowledged that cells don’t recycle “perfectly” – or else you couldn’t tell the difference between a 20-year-old and a 90-year-old (the latter exhibiting many generations of progressively-deteriorating cellular recycling).
The ONLY way that PE-altered cells could recycle that way would be IF our exercises actually altered the genetic structure of our DNA. I was really pumped up in my youth – yet none of my sons were born/grew up muscular. The same with tans. Two very tan people do NOT produce a tan baby/child. The sun causes it. If my sons want to be built, they won’t get it from me, but from the cause – i.e., weight training.
In other words, a big-dicked father could pass on a “big dick gene” (if you will) to his sons [not saying it’s one gene, could be some combo – but you get my point]. Yet, in doing PE, we’re not creating “big dick genes.” We’re not altering our DNA.
I acknowledge using the term “theory” improperly – for sake of convenience. I’m well aware of the distinctions between hypothesis-theory-law, etc. Just like I use the terms growth, gains, losses in a looser sense (what I really mean is expansion, contraction or shrinkage, etc. – since the former terms are, by definition, contrary to what I believe).
In mentioning that you’ve lost 25% of your length, I was pointing out that you’re roughly in the same boat that I’m in – the difference is only by degrees. To clarify any apparent discrepancies, I have lost MOST of my gains: 50% of length & about 75% of my girth. Volumetrically, that is a SHOCKING loss of size; and, indeed, is most of my gains. I was not sniping at the fact that you’d gained only 1/8” EG, I was merely pointing out that you didn’t gain much to lose; and since girth represented the bulk of my losses (by volume) you really couldn’t draw an even comparison between us. Had you gained 1 1/8” of EG, your girth losses might well mirror mine.
Lil12big1, you mention the folks in “white coats”…well, they have spoken on this GvM model regarding PE (perhaps you haven’t heard) – they unanimously REJECT it.
I'm waiting for references.
That’s a joke, right? Because you can’t possibly be claiming that you’re totally unaware that the entire medical establishment dismisses the concept of natural penis enlargement.
You’ve lost nothing in 2 years. Great. I’d lost nothing in 3+ years. And the point is?
I have nothing against you personally. You might be a great guy for all I know, but when we have these exchanges in the forum, it seems like an exercise in futility. You insist on butting heads with me and ignoring your own words.
For example, in reference to plastic deformation, YOU said:
“You are mixing concepts with material entities, IMHO. 'Elasticity' and 'plasticity' aren't real things.”
“And finally: what, again, means 'elasticity' and 'plasticity' in concrete?”
You were clearly stating that you regarded those as “concepts” (in contrast to) “material entities.” You then flatly stated: “’Elasticity’ and ‘plasticity’ aren’t real things.”
Then you asked again about the meaning of “’elasticity’ and ‘plasticity’ in concrete?”
Yet, that is PRECISELY what those links I posted had addressed. Precisely that – none of that other shit you rattled off. And those resources were right here in the forum. There are plenty more. Search Shiver’s thread, “Deformation: Intensity, Method and Recovery.”
Hell, here’s another: http://www.sahs.utmb.edu/programs/p…hrx/ROM2000.doc
Hobby has also posted about this.
You also stated, “if the tunica is becoming thinner while gaining from PE, we should have more injuries the more we do PE. It seems the adverse happens in the real world: most of injuries are experienced by newbies.”
Yes, many newbies do stupid things to their unconditioned dicks – that’s what causes the injuries. But I would argue that the most severe injuries happen to guys who’ve PE’d for a while. Look a big girtha, he did all that crazy girth stuff, proud that he’d never had an injury – then he had a thrombosis. SWM also suffered some injuries, if I recall correctly. The one PE I had happened well into my PE journey - not as a newbie.
I want to make a few things clear.
1) I believe that my view is universal, not particular, in scope. However, the retention time, degree, etc. are particulars. I’m not claiming that 3+ years of retaining all but 1/8” (if not 1/10”) of girth & length somehow represents “the wall.” Some guys might go over 4 years, 5 or 6 years, etc. On the flip side, I recall one guy in the forum claiming that he’d lost almost all of his gains after only 1 year off (I think that’s probably unusual).
2) lil12big1 exhibited a similar loss – differing only in the particulars (amount / time).
3) There’s a difference between a standard of proof & sophistry, or riddles. In arguing for my EtP theory, when I cite that no known GvM model can account for such an enormously delayed-onset of “deconditioning” (even longer in lil12big1’s case), I even enumerate a list of common examples. Yet, I’m still challenged to provide some type of clinical proof – even after appealing to commonly-understood examples (hypertrophy, sun tanning, callouses, cardio conditioning, etc.).
At that point, I realize that this becomes a game of spinning tires. It’s like being asked to “prove” that I’m going to die one day. Well, I can’t provide such proof. So, is it valid to believe that I might never die? By any “absolute” standards, I can’t even prove that I have a penis (the pics I’ve posted could be of someone else).
This is probably the same shit that went on all day long at Athens in the 5th century B.C. (I’m not asking people uncritically accept every word out of my mouth, of course, but I can’t help but get the feeling – at times – that this degenerates into nothing but a pure bullshit contest).
That’s not why I post.
One more thought: too many guys here seem to be fundamentally unable to even consider an alternative view. Some do accept my hypothesis, but I get the feeling that some of them hadn’t really considered PE on the theoretical level before; therefore, they have no hill to defend. While others, judging from some of my private messages, seem unwilling to say so openly in the forum. That’s okay, I have no problem with that.
But any PE theory – including EtP – is no “baby” to me. I’ve amended my views in the past (GvM model, true permanency of gains, optimum workout frequency/intensity, etc.), so that’s not a life-or-death issue with me (as it appears to be for others).