Bib's LOT Theory Revisited
When Bib started this thread, Bib’s LOT Theory, in March of 2003, it received a lot of attention. There was a lot of confusion regarding the LOT test, the theory itself, as well as the potential application of the theory in one’s training regimen.
For a long time, the LOT Theory was generally accepted and utilized by members here. However, after Bib’s controversial departure from this forum, some began to attack not only the implications of the LOT Theory but the concept itself.
Now, it’s not my “job” to be Bib’s apologist. Admittedly, I seldom exchanged with Bib when he was active in the forum (he ran the Hanger’s Forum, and I was not a hanger; however, I must say, that whenever I did query Bib, he was always generous with his time). Moreover, I also want to disclose that I’ve had no contact with Bib whatsoever after he left the forum.
But in the interest of PE, I must say that I felt that a number of ModestoMan’s contentions – upon which he based his dismissal of LOT – are clearly false. To that end, I thought it was worth revisiting Bib’s theory in that some might benefit from it (especially since a number of ModestoMan’s points are directly contradicted by the medical establishment).
ModestoMan started a thread Testing LOT Theory, in which he attacked the theory from all angles – including a so-called computer model of why the LOT Theory is not valid.
And, from another of ModestoMan’s threads, A Possible Breakthrough. About TIME !
“…The long tradition of crediting lig stretching for gains makes no sense at all. The ligs just tie the shaft to the pubic bone. Stretching the ligs just loosens the connection. It has no effect on penis size.
Now, that's not to say that downward stretching is worthless. Stretching down might be an effective PE technique because of its effect on penile growth—not lig stretching. There also might be some value in loosening the ligs to allow PE induced stresses to reach the parts of the shaft inside the body. They can grow just like the parts of the shaft outside the body. But loosening the ligs doesn't allow you to “pull out the inner penis.” The inner penis, like the outer penis, has a fixed length. It can be made to grow from PE, but it can never be “pulled out” without causing serious injury to its owner.”
However, from the websites of board-certified surgeons, accredited to perform phalloplasty, we read the following…
from Dr Whitehead's website:
Q. How much extra length may be obtained?
A. This is a hard question to answer, and absolute promises cannot be made. However, length may be increased by approximately one to two inches. Maximum length is obtained when the surgery is combined with a penile stretching device.
Q. Are the results of penile lengthening permanent?
A. The results of penile lengthening are permanent, and when combined with a penile stretching device added length will occur over time.
Dr Whitehead Q&A
Info about lengthening:
“Approximately one-third to one-half of the penis is inside the body, and is internally attached to the undersurface of the pubic bone. Penis lengthening involves the release of the fundiform ligament and the suspensory ligament that attaches the 2 erectile bodies to the pubic bone. The suspensory ligament makes the penis arch under the pubic bone. Release of this ligament allows the penis to protrude on a straighter path, further outward to give more functional length. I use a 1” to 1½” lower abdominal incision in the pubic hair area for concealment or a new incision in the penile-pubic crease for concealment. This is a relatively minor procedure. There will be no scar on the penis and there is no possibility of pubic hair on the penis. I highly recommend use of specially designed penile weights to maximize penile lengthening and combat possible scar formation.”
From the Penis Surgery Clinic:
“The Lengthening Procedure: Your penis is considerably longer than it appears. About 40% of its length is concealed behind the skin where it cannot be seen. It is firmly anchored or tethered to the pelvic bones. It is attached to the underside of the pubic bone by, among others, two thin, disposable, dispensable ligaments—the fundiform and the suspensory ligaments. When these two ligaments are divided with a laser the only result is that the penis will extend forward about 1 1/2 inches. Using the laser hastens healing. The actual true length of the penis is unchanged, but the part of the penis in front of the skin—the part you can see and use— increases about 1 1/2 inches. This does not change the angle of the erection. This does not affect the stability of the penis it is not known why these ligaments are even there, just as it is not known why the appendix is there. Those unfamiliar with the procedure have said that instability of the penis and change in the erection angle will result when these ligaments are cut. This is entirely untrue.”
To be sure, Bib’s LOT Theory makes a lot of assertions, and this thread does not address them all. Nor is the above info a “slam dunk” for the LOT Theory (in its entirety).
However, when ModestoMan makes such assertions as…
“There is no ‘inner penis to pull out’, that is clearly false.
“…approximately one-third to one-half of the penis is inside the body….”
“…the long tradition of crediting lig stretching for gains makes no sense at all. The ligs just tie the shaft to the pubic bone. Stretching the ligs just loosens the connection. It has no effect on penis size….”
As the above excerpts clearly state, “…penis lengthening involves the release of the fundiform ligament and the suspensory ligament that attaches the 2 erectile bodies to the pubic bone…” as well as “…when these two ligaments are divided with a laser the only result is that the penis will extend forward about 1 1/2 inches….the actual true length of the penis is unchanged, but the part of the penis in front of the skin—the part you can see and use— increases about 1 1/2 inches.”
(The above statement CLEARLY indicates that an immediate 1.5” of the “inner penis” can be “pulled out/exposed” from the body – solely from those 2 ligaments.
In a different thread, ModestoMan and I traded posts in which I said that I didn’t believe that gains more than an inch or so could be realized from lig gains anyway, but ModestoMan opined that he thought it closer to ½ inch – if that. Well, actually TRIPLE that amount is routinely realized from this surgical technique – so, there IS a considerable amount of the blithely-dismissed “Lig Gains.”)
“But loosening the ligs doesn't allow you to ‘pull out the inner penis’.”
Already covered – it most certainly does. Furthermore, it’s not actually “loosening” the ligs, it’s “stretching” the ligs.
“The inner penis, like the outer penis, has a fixed length. It can be made to grow from PE, but it can never be “pulled out” without causing serious injury to its owner.”
The surgical technique does NOT “increase the size of the inner penis,” but in fact realizes a length gain of the visible penis by releasing the ligaments to allow the penis to protrude on a straighter path. Furthermore, the one article indicates that there is no danger or even instability associated with this procedure.
In addition, ModestoMan asserted that he didn’t believe there was much variation in any potential “lig gains” (which he put at ½” or less), unless one was (I believe he said) a medical anomaly – or something to that effect (I couldn’t find the precise post – sorry).
However, some of the web sites I scanned were giving immediate gains in the range of one to two inches (a 100% variation!). Therefore, it would certainly appear that some men DO have “more lig gains” than other men.
These procedures certainly include the severing of those ligaments and, as such, result in immediate lengthening of the visible penis (by freeing up the inner penis). However, I still believe that a significant percentage of those gains COULD be realized, in time, by intense downward stretching. While I’d earlier stated that I thought 1” might be the top end of potential lig gains, I would have to conclude that some men might realize as much as 1.5” or more from lig gains (since some men realize 2” of lig gains from the severing technique).
I realize that none of this info addresses some of the aspects of Bib’s Theory – including his clock face model for determining inner lig length – but I do believe this info refutes ModestoMan’s contentions against Bib’s theory…namely,
1) There IS an amount “inner penis” that can be pulled out/forward by the stretching/lengthening of the ligs.
2) This difference can vary between men by as much as 100% (1-2”) – perhaps the difference between a LOT of 6:00 and a LOT of 11:00 or higher???
3) These types of gains are not dangerous, nor do they even result in penile instability.
4) Lig stretching can be VERY beneficial – unlike ModestoMan’s assertion that “…lig stretching for gains makes no sense at all.”
So, don’t be quick to discard Bib’s LOT Theory…you might be cheating yourself out of some real gains.