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Applying Bib's LOT theory to DLD Blasters

Obwon,

Makes sense.

SS4,

> Nooooooo! At low angles where the ligs are taking the stress there is no point in kegeling, that would take stress AWAY from the ligs in any case.<

Thats what I said diddle I?

> At HIGHER angles, what you are saying is true, why kegel if the stress is too high to cause tugback? But it DOES increase the stress.<

Just to check high angle toward OTS low angle toward BTC are we talking in the same direction :confused:


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Quote
Originally posted by RB
One thing I've never understood is why is the pc pullback or kegeling during stretching viewed as something to avoid? It would seem that if you are pulling on the tunica from one end, and your pc pulls from the other, tunica stretch would be maximized. If the pc is so relaxed it's not pulling back, as in a regular kegel, isn't it just more susceptible to stretching from the force of your pull and actually taking stress OFF the tunica?

When I kegel when tunica stretching upwards, I feel more stress in my tunica than when my pc is relaxed…

I was thinking the same thing. I was also kegeling while stretching upwards. During the pull back of the kegel I would try to stretch harder during that initial pull back, thinking you would be pulling your tunica in two directions, creating more stress on your tunica. I stopped doing it, because I wasn’t sure if it was benefical.

Quote
Originally posted by memento

yguy,

>Do we want the tunica to be exposed for tunica stretching? Seems it would just take more stress off the tunica.
I think thats a good question. The exposure is more of a side effect I think when it comes to tunica stretching, the effect that we are looking for it so put stress on the tunica not on anything else (I think jelktoid descirbed this as a tug of war with the PC muscle).

We base a lot of what we do here on our experience with our own penises and what we find effective. Sometimes something comes along and jolts our perception of exactly whats going on (or clarifies it) but we are still working in the dark because we only have a single test subject. So wha goes on with you're penis. Your gains have been really damn impressive can you fit what you have done into this at all?

Well I’ve always just tried to relax as much as possible while stretching. To me its always seemed you can pull further out when fully relaxed. So it seems having my PC fully relaxed has given me some kind of benefit over the years. Where I got most of my gains was from stretching in all directions in various sets. Now with Bibs Theory, my ligs have reached their potential for now. Since turning to tunica stretching, the gains are coming again. Most of the tunica stretching I’ve done, I’ve just tried to keep myself and my PC muscle fully relaxed.

So now I have another question.

Quote
Originally posted by SS4Jelq
At BTC and low angles (high LOT) the RK gives the most benefit.
At high angles (low LOT) the kegel gives the most benefit.

What would relaxing the PC muscle do at stretching at high angles(low LOT)?


"It doesn't matter where you start, it only matters where you end up."

>To me its always seemed you can pull further out when fully relaxed.

Though our stretching is different its seems like a similar attitude to the PC muscle. A hot wrap or pad also seems to help relax the tissues allowing even more pull.


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Quote
> I have. I did reverse kegels BTC soon after I started seriously hanging, and noted then that they had more effect than the ab crunches Bib had mentioned. I felt the stretch more after relaxing from the RK.<

Thats interesting. What do you put that down to? could it be that a kegel and relax allows for an even greater angle BTC or that it allows a little rearrangement to occur producing an even more effective angle. I take it you don’t have a weird LOT.

When I started RKing at BTC I had been getting a good stretch in the lower pelvic fascia when hanging. The terminology may be wrong, but hangers know what I mean. It’s the stretch that you can feel almost to your belly button. It’s likely that the muscles contracting during a RK (or crunch) intensified the stretch by pressing against the fascia from the inside - sort of a hands free internal pelvic fulcrum stretch. This would explain the intensified stretch felt during the active part of the RK.

I’ve always felt a better stretch after releasing a RK than during it, in all positions. IIRC, a few other guys have reported the same. My guess is the RK tenses muscles that are restraining the stretch, and therefore allows them to relax. Huh? I realize this is backwards from what we generally think RK’s do, but I’ll explain.

A muscle can more fully relax after being contracted. This, IMO, is why the kegels at the beginning of DLD’s blaster routine are effective. They don’t wear out the PC. It recovers very quickly - a matter of seconds. The contractions simply allow the muscles to better relax. A nice, hot bath does the same thing (even better, IMO). Anyway, where was I? Oh, yeah, RK’s.

I posit the reason I feel a better stretch after a RK is because the RK contracts muscles a regular kegel doesn’t - muscles that are interfering with the stretch. The subsequent relaxation takes them out of the way.

Or maybe not, but that’s my best guess. ;)

For fucks sake, I just wrote a fucking 12 page reply but lost it all, damn AOL. I am pissed now.

mem,

>Good point and yes I definately feel an increase in stress and a miniscule tug back at the base though my pulling hand does not move.<

This is the part I am not 100% sure about.

My theory is that the kegel pulls the shaft back, but the hand is still pulling away, so assuming the hand is exerting the same or more stress than the PC, which it should unless you are a wimp, the tension will be increased by exactly the force that the PC is exerting, but only on the area between hand and PC.

I worded that a lot better the first time.

As I said before hangers can check the strength of their PC by hanging OTS blahblahblah read a few post back.

>What do you think are the antagonistic muscles involved, any above the penis? To me it makes perfect sense that the reverse kegel can help relaxation but I’ve not made any connection to antagonistic flexing.<

I dont know, and I cant be bothered looking. I bet wrestler can find out, he has links to everything man.

>I’ve learned a lot since I’ve been here but there are areas that are fuzzy. To me its like if your pc muscle is involved you are redcucing stress because you are not pulling against a stable base.<

Think of the PC as pulling the shaft back towards your body. The ligs are attached to the shaft so if this happens, they will become less taut, placing more stress on the tunica.

With a reverse kegel, the shaft is pushed out of the body, so the ligs become MORE taut.

Does that do it for you?

>>At BTC and low angles (high LOT) the RK gives the most benefit.
At high angles (low LOT) the kegel gives the most benefit.<

huh?<

With BTC and downward stretching, a reverse kegel will place more stress on the ligs whan if you did not reverse kegel.
With SO and OTS, a normal kegel will place more stress on the tunica than if you did not do a kegel.

That thing you said before about “thats what I said diddle I” I forgot to copy it. I probably mis interpreted what you said, sorry. I might not have done but I cant be arsed checking.

YGuy,

>I was thinking the same thing. I was also kegeling while stretching upwards. During the pull back of the kegel I would try to stretch harder during that initial pull back, thinking you would be pulling your tunica in two directions, creating more stress on your tunica. <

YES!!!!! That is exactly what I think.

>I stopped doing it, because I wasn’t sure if it was benefical<

I say try again.

>So now I have another question.

At BTC and low angles (high LOT) the RK gives the most benefit.
At high angles (low LOT) the kegel gives the most benefit.

What would relaxing the PC muscle do at stretching at high angles(low LOT)?<

Good question. I dont think it is possible to relax it fully without doing a reverse kegel when stretching, because the reflex would kick in. With AI stretches, where the reflex is avoided, no extra stress would be placed on the tunica. I want to look at some anatomy things and have a think. Kegeling would be better I think.

SS4

Quote
>Now, the odd thing is I can feel RK’s working (actually more on the relaxation after the RK) hanging OTS and BTC, but they don’t do a damn thing SO.<

Odd. When you RK, is the stress felt in the same or a different area with the two angles?

Different. Ligs on top for BTC, and underside/internal shaft OTS. Now that mem made me think about it I believe I now understand why. Internal relaxation. For some reason though, SO is a neutral point. Whatever gets relaxed by RK’s must not be affected at that angle. Or my theory is all wet.

hobby,

>The terminology may be wrong, but hangers know what I mean. It’s the stretch that you can feel almost to your belly button.<

Yes. Fun, aint it?

>I’ve always felt a better stretch after releasing a RK than during it, in all positions. IIRC, a few other guys have reported the same.

My guess is the RK tenses muscles that are restraining the stretch, and therefore allows them to relax. Huh? I realize this is backwards from what we generally think RK’s do, but I’ll explain.

A muscle can more fully relax after being contracted. This, IMO, is why the kegels at the beginning of DLD’s blaster routine are effective. They don’t wear out the PC. It recovers very quickly - a matter of seconds. The contractions simply allow the muscles to better relax. A nice, hot bath does the same thing (even better, IMO). Anyway, where was I? Oh, yeah, RK’s.<

Like when you do a squat set, and after its done you put the weight down and just go “uuuhhh”. Like that you mean? Anyway, I have noticed this, but it was a while ago since I hung BTC so its not fresh in memory. I remember a different feeling, but whether it was increased stress or not I dont know. It almost feels like a kind of relief feeling after the RK is released. Thats a good name actually The Relief Phase.

>I posit the reason I feel a better stretch after a RK is because the RK contracts muscles a regular kegel doesn’t - muscles that are interfering with the stretch. The subsequent relaxation takes them out of the way.<

Yo ho ho, sailor. This is what I have always thought. The kegel and RK are antagonists to each other, one fires and the other relaxes etc.

>Or maybe not, but that’s my best guess.<

I like your guess. Makes me wish I was hanging BTC so I could recall. Oh, the good old days….

SS4

Stop replying while i’m typing posts you assholes!

hobby,

> For some reason though, SO is a neutral point. Whatever gets relaxed by RK’s must not be affected at that angle. Or my theory is all wet.<

It seems like a natural crossover point. Why do threads like this come up when you are taking breaks from PE? Grrr. I did notice an increased tension by kegeling at SO. Your individual LOT may play a part in where the ‘crossover point’ actually is.

SS4

hobby,

>This, IMO, is why the kegels at the beginning of DLD’s blaster routine are effective. They don’t wear out the PC. It recovers very quickly - a matter of seconds.<

Yes I agree with you and just put it badly this time around. The example I used last time which seemed to click was its like bouncing up and down as you reach your toes. Some people find this an effective way to stretch the muscle and reach their toes. I use the yoga equivalent which is to stretch a muscle slowly and gradualy increase the relaxation for maximum stretch, over a period of time this is very effective at producing a muscle that stretches further and further.

Very interesting on the reverse kegel thing. I will have to test that out. I know the stress to the belly button feeling you are talking about, I’ve felt that a lot with a low angle stretch.

SS4,

> Think of the PC as pulling the shaft back towards your body. The ligs are attached to the shaft so if this happens, they will become less taut, placing more stress on the tunica.

With a reverse kegel, the shaft is pushed out of the body, so the ligs become MORE taut.

Does that do it for you?<
Thats exactly what I think happens. But again I don’t see the point if your ligs are taking the strain. Let me just tap the phone, we seem to have a bad line here.

>With SO and OTS, a normal kegel will place more stress on the tunica than if you did not do a kegel.<
I don’t think that happens. I think its the release from the kegel that that actualy allows the stretch to be increased.

>I dont think it is possible to relax it fully without doing a reverse kegel when stretching, because the reflex would kick in.

Reflexes are controllable.


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Quote
Originally posted by SS4Jelq
Your individual LOT may play a part in where the 'crossover point' actually is.
SS4

I agree and that is why I started this thread. Finding this crossover point is going to determine what stretch angle is best for each person. The way I angle my “A-Stretch” now is completely different then how I was doing it 6 months ago. I also continue to make gains as I make these slight adjustments. My main objective when Blasting is to feel the greatest angle of tugback so I can feel the transition into the reverse kegel more. My “A-Stretch” is now almost against my stomach, if you can picture that, because this is where I feel the greatest stretch.


Link to the DLD Blasters Soon to be Triple

mem,

>Thats exactly what I think happens. But again I don’t see the point if your ligs are taking the strain. Let me just tap the phone, we seem to have a bad line here.<

To increase the stess……

>I don’t think that happens. I think its the release from the kegel that that actualy allows the stretch to be increased.<

I hear you. I dont know. Maybe both, I am debated-out.
Why am I still awake? I’m off to bed….

>Reflexes are controllable.<

Even when under 30 pounds of stress?
(serious question, I have no experience here)

SS4

no body like me…everybody hates me…I think I’ll go eat worms


Link to the DLD Blasters Soon to be Triple

>Even when under 30 pounds of stress? (serious question, I have no experience here)

Allah knows (I don’t).


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>no body like me…everybody hates me…I think I’ll go eat worms

Ah shame. Have fun.


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First Post ... don't hold your breath for my next one.

Great article on stretching.

http://www.muscularmen.com/stretching_4.html

Look at the PNF stretch at the bottom of the page. This link starts in the middle for the article and is most applicable to this topic. I’d suggest reading from the start though to understand why stretch happens.

I’ll admit it, I’ve been a long time lurker (years; watched the evolution of Tom’s sites too) and probably will not chime in that often. Just felt a need to share this bit of info. It might help shed some light on the bennifits for contracting and ‘pushing’ of the PC’s. Just found it about a month ago.

PE on and off for years.

Starting 6 3/4” BPEL x 4 1/2” EG
Current 8” BPEL x 5 1/5” EG
Goal 8” NBPEL x 6’ EG
LOT 8:30
Current 5” (average) FL
Goal 6.5” (average) FL

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