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A Jelqing Theory.

Originally Posted by wangchun

I use the power-jelq which provides a similar effect to the rolling pin. Of all the reports I’ve seen about the PJ, it seems to help with girth more than regular jelqing. I think the reason for that is what you’ve said but I think that it increases width more than depth as wadzilla said. Who knows it might lead to somewhat of an oval-shaped penis which would allow more girth with less volume and would explain the great girth gains of people that have used it. It’s an interesting point that you bring up and hopefully we can find an answer.

More evidence to my theory. If I am right, then people will have another KEY factor in finding girth or length — or both. But I am curious to what you guys mean by “depth.”

Maybe depth is better ;-). I probably could use some of that.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Width is <————>
Depth is the filling of the width

Look at your dick from a profile angle that is depth (in the mirror)


The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

remek,
Yeah, I mean that my penis increased in “width” from the side view, not overhead. So, it really didn’t get “wider,” it got “deeper.” By this, I believe that I received a lot of CS development, as opposed to CC.

Why this happened, I believe, is that I started with a fairly thick unit - about 5 1/4” midshaft, but larger at the base. Since we’re supposed to jelq from as close to the body as possible, I was forced to keep making a circle around nearly 5 3/4” (close, anyway). As my girth increased (now 6+ midshaft, 6 1/2++ base), it became very tedious to try to form a full circle, especially in a high-jelq session. So I’d usually just “pinch” it, not forming a full circle. As I used an overhand grip, the sides were hit hard, but I was not coming full circle around the bottom - hence the pressures sought relief downward, causing my CS to bear the brunt of the forces, therefore growing more (i.e., “depth”).

juke,
The length-more-frequently-than-girth theory is valid, particularly since we’re seeking two different “reactions” from the training.

With length, we’re seeking “plastic deformation,” which literally means “to stretch it out of shape.” Hence, the more the better.

With girth, we’re using “impaction” - i.e., supercharging the spongy, blood-holding tissues with highly pressurized blood - which causes trauma, no doubt. Whether there is actual “micro tears” or not, who knows? But it’s still “trauma.” I know that when I’ve gone overboard in a jelq/squeeze session, I suffered petichiae. On a few occasions, even bad bruising.

What’s that? I’d say it’s more than “micro” tears. Anyway, the research on that “Science of PE” article that I posted asserted that this tearing occurs - just as it does in marine sponges. And that when those tears repair, they become larger (microscopically, of course - but it all adds up over time). Therefore, with a tearing trauma, we need repair - or else we’d lose size if we kept ramming the girth work.

With plastic deformation, we do NOT want those tissues to fully adapt - i.e., become stronger, more resistant. We want to “stretch it out of shape.”

Hence, two different “results,” and two different approaches which sound perfectly valid to me.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
The length-more-frequently-than-girth theory is valid, particularly since we’re seeking two different “reactions” from the training.

With length, we’re seeking “plastic deformation,” which literally means “to stretch it out of shape.” Hence, the more the better.


Does girth work not stretch the tunica out of shape? Is that not one of the goals of doing girth work, to stretch the tunica increasing its capacity?

Quote
With girth, we’re using “impaction” - i.e., supercharging the spongy, blood-holding tissues with highly pressurized blood - which causes trauma, no doubt. Whether there is actual “micro tears” or not, who knows? But it’s still “trauma.” I know that when I’ve gone overboard in a jelq/squeeze session, I suffered petichiae. On a few occasions, even bad bruising.


Where exactly are these micro tears occurring? If it’s in the tunica, then length work will without a doubt cause the same trauma. Stretching the penis and pressuring blood inside are two different methods giving the same result. They’re both forces applied, just in different directions.
Remember, I’m talking strictly in terms of gains, I’m not considering bruising or soreness or anything.

Quote
What’s that? I’d say it’s more than “micro” tears. Anyway, the research on that “Science of PE” article that I posted asserted that this tearing occurs - just as it does in marine sponges. And that when those tears repair, they become larger (microscopically, of course - but it all adds up over time). Therefore, with a tearing trauma, we need repair - or else we’d lose size if we kept ramming the girth work.

With plastic deformation, we do NOT want those tissues to fully adapt - i.e., become stronger, more resistant. We want to “stretch it out of shape.”

Hence, two different “results,” and two different approaches which sound perfectly valid to me.


Why would you not want plastic deformation to occur when doing girth work? Sounds to me like that would be a good way of increasing your girth. On the other hand, why would you not be concerned with the healing of micro tears when doing your length training? Do you give up the idea of hypertrophy and pursue plastic deformation??

I sure haven’t lost size by ramming my girth work in the last few months. I’ve made pretty decent gains. It may sound like I’m busting your balls here, but your post still leaves alot of unanswered questions, just doesn’t make sense..

juke,
The plastic deformation occurs in length work for the ligs mostly, but also the tunica. Although I suspect that longitudinal deformation of the tunica is easier than lattitudinal deformation - since the consensus here is that girth is tougher to gain than length (at least that’s what I keep hearing).

And I don’t know what you mean when you say, “Do you give up the idea of hypertrophy and pursue plastic deformation??” I’m certain that hypertrophy has NOTHING to do with PE gains, as the penis is not comprised of striated skeletal muscle.

I’m positive that girth work is more traumatic to the penis than length work, since I’ve never gotten a spotted Dalmatian cock from stretching - or the deep bruises that I’ve had once or twice after a mad girth session.

Nor can you get off the hook by saying, “Remember, I’m talking strictly in terms of gains, I’m not considering bruising or soreness or anything.” You DO have to consider bruising, because that’s a sign of internal bleeding. And it’s something we definitely don’t want with PE. And that bruising is far more common with girth work than length work.

Impaction work deals with increased internal pressures - which carry it’s own risks, including thrombosis. Length work is not pressure-related, but is traction forces deforming the ligs & the tunica - without dangerous pressure increases. I don’t believe there’s any tearing with length work, only girth work. Therefore, length work does not require the same recuperation periods.

I’m sure you’ve heard of those JES extender devices? Many recommend wearing them for about 12 hours per day. And the literature specifically states that the gains are proportional to the total hours wearing the device.
Do you think that jelqing 12 hours per day would benefit you?

I’m not busting your balls either, but you seem to be reading way too much into this, which appears rather obvious to me.

- w a d

My question about hypertrophy followed from your statement:

>when those tears repair, they become larger (microscopically, of course - but it all adds up over time)

This is hypertrophy. Now you’re saying you don’t want to do too much girth work for fear of not allowing the tissues to repair and grow larger, but you don’t care when doing length work? Why not?

>Nor can you get off the hook by saying, “Remember, I’m talking strictly in terms of gains, I’m not considering bruising or soreness or anything.” You DO have to consider bruising, because that’s a sign of internal bleeding. And it’s something we definitely don’t want with PE. And that bruising is far more common with girth work than length work.

What I’m questioning is that under the assumption that you are NOT experiencing any of these side effects, why the two approaches to training.

>I’m positive that girth work is more traumatic to the penis than length work, since I’ve never gotten a spotted Dalmatian cock from stretching - or the deep bruises that I’ve had once or twice after a mad girth session.

That’s only on the surface. You have no idea what’s going on deeper inside the penis. And really that’s only superficial. Suppose your tear your tunica hanging, it wouldn’t look too bad, but it would sure be traumatic.

>Impaction work deals with increased internal pressures - which carry it’s own risks, including thrombosis. Length work is not pressure-related, but is traction forces deforming the ligs & the tunica - without dangerous pressure increases. I don’t believe there’s any tearing with length work, only girth work. Therefore, length work does not require the same recuperation periods.

These are issues dealing with the blood vessels. Blood vessels don’t really have much of an effect on gains, it’s the tunica that limits size. As long as you keep this in check it’s not a problem to consider.

remek,

You didn’t answer my last question (and it is relevant), so I’ll ask again…

Do you think that jelqing 12 hours per day would give you greater benefits?

Originally Posted by wadzilla
remek,
You didn’t answer my last question (and it is relevant), so I’ll ask again…
Do you think that jelqing 12 hours per day would give you greater benefits?


I think you’re talking to me and not remek.. That’s not a fair comparison really. Would you hang your maximum weight say 20 pounds for 12 hours a day? Of course not, you would by your principles hang for as much time as you can to achieve plastic deformation. If you had all day to do it, you would stop when your dick has had enough. Likewise, you would stop jelqing when your dick has had enough. There’s limitations on how much PE you can do, for both length and girth work. It just happens that you probably wouldn’t be able to do as much girth work time-wise as length work given the methods that we currently use.
There’s still several questions I’ve asked above that you didn’t answer:

>Why would you not want plastic deformation to occur when doing girth work? On the other hand, why would you not be concerned with the healing of micro tears when doing your length training? Do you give up the idea of hypertrophy and pursue plastic deformation??

Originally Posted by juke
>Why would you not want plastic deformation to occur when doing girth work? On the other hand, why would you not be concerned with the healing of micro tears when doing your length training? Do you give up the idea of hypertrophy and pursue plastic deformation??


I believe that the plastic deformation occurs mostly for length (ligs, and longitudinal extension of tunica). I think this occurs after extreme time under load (tractional load). I don’t believe this happens with girth work. There is obviously some expansion of the tunica when girth gains are made, but the resistance to this lateral expansion could explain why most guys here report that they really struggle for girth gains.

HOWEVER, I’m not sure that I would call the sponge-like expansion of those cells “hypertrophy.” And I’m not just splitting hairs, but I really don’t think that’s hypertrophy. Hypertrophy is a complex arrangement of biochemical occurrences/processes, stimulated by progressive resistance training, aided by protein & other nutrients, as well as testosterone, and involves the breaking down & repair of striated skeletal muscle.

This is clearly not involved with PE. So, I don’t “give up the idea of hypertrophy,” since I’ve never entertained such ideas regarding PE. I still believe that impaction exercises (jelqs, ulis, holds, etc.) promote growth - not quite hypertrophy, not quite plastic deformation. But girth gains have appeared to be the least permanent, which would suggest that plastic deformation is not strongly at play, since PD suggests a permanent stretching out of shape, etc. And we know this shit isn’t actual hypertrophy (as if the penis were like the bicep or the pectoral). We don’t build up lactic acid when we PE, our shafts don’t hurt like hell the way our pecs and arms do the next day….so forget “hypertrophy.” This ain’t it.

Isn’t repair of micro tears is generally by “scar tissue”? Now hypertrophy is cell enlargement and
hyperplasma is the generation of satellite cells. But we are not talking about skeletal muscle, so
hypertrophy probably isn’t what is happening. Hyperplasma, on the other hand, is what I hope is
happening. It seems that scar tissue would inhibit the ability of the internal structures to stretch
and therefore might limit the quality of an erection.

I know tissue expanders are used in reconstructive surgery. These devices stretch the skin,
in such a way to cause new skin to grow (Hyperplasma?) around the stretched skin. I am
confident this is what happens to the skin of the penis from PE. But what is actually happening
to the tunica and CC? Scar tissue or hyperplasma?

Google “Tissue Expansion”, some interesting stuff.

Hypertrophy: A nontumorous enlargement of an organ or a tissue as a result of an increase in the size rather than the number of constituent cells.

Nobody is talking about muscles, I should have just said cell growth that way nobody will start trying to get all semantic on me while ignoring my real questions.

If lateral expansion of the tunica is more difficult, then that’s even more of a case for greater volume/intensity with girth work. Would you not want permanent, plastic deformation over this supposed cell growth?

Originally Posted by SmilingBob

I know tissue expanders are used in reconstructive surgery. These devices stretch the skin,

in such a way to cause new skin to grow (Hyperplasma?) around the stretched skin. I am

confident this is what happens to the skin of the penis from PE. But what is actually happening

to the tunica and CC? Scar tissue or hyperplasma?

Not sure man. Probably a safe bet that it’s a little of both, question is how much, and what is the best method of achieving hyperplasia? (I think scar tissue would be less permanent no?)

Tried this method yesterday two times, first as I couldn´t find a place to do it I used one hand to hold the unit and the other one to make the pression (I used a deodorant). The session lasted like 3min, not that much, but I felt the pressure on the sides. Later I found a place where I could do this exercise right, and did it for like 7 10min but didn’t have the same feeling as before. I believe that the first time I was giving pressure from both below and above of the penis but the second time I was only giving it from above, so it didn’t have the same effect


Abril ´04 BP 15.8 x EG 11.4 // Marzo ´06 BP 19.6 x EG 12.5 // Sept ´07 BP 20.3 x EG 13

GOAL: 20x14 - Big enough to make that ass cry for mercy!

Originally Posted by DremelGawD
Tried this method yesterday two times, first as I couldn´t find a place to do it I used one hand to hold the unit and the other one to make the pression (I used a deodorant). The session lasted like 3min, not that much, but I felt the pressure on the sides. Later I found a place where I could do this exercise right, and did it for like 7 10min but didn’t have the same feeling as before. I believe that the first time I was giving pressure from both below and above of the penis but the second time I was only giving it from above, so it didn’t have the same effect

Hmm, I am confused on what you used the deodrant for. Did you use it to do a “rolling pin” type jelq?


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by juke
If lateral expansion of the tunica is more difficult, then that’s even more of a case for greater volume/intensity with girth work. Would you not want permanent, plastic deformation over this supposed cell growth?

juke,
You would be right if all that girth gains entailed was the lateral expansion of the tunica - but that’s not it. That just has to occur to allow the spongy tissues to expand. Girth is actually caused by the CC/CS enlarging; the tunica, which is tough & resistent, governs or moderates that expansion.

My point (which you consistently seem to be missing) is that by going overboard on width work - to stretch the tunica, if you will - you’re greatly overtraining the soft tissues being held within the tunica.

My way around that is by using a lot of heat therapy to temp soften the tunica, get a good jelq session every other day, and hope (w/fingers crossed) that the daily stretching my help to stimulate some overall tunica gains.

But you CANNOT just hammer the tunica for width gains without wildly traumatizing the soft tissues enclosed therein (CC/CS, veins, arteries, etc.).
Get it?

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