Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

A couple of articles that are sceptical towards P.E

Skeptical articles towards P.E and counterarguments for the effectiveness for PE

In this thread I’m going to post a couple of articles that question the effectiveness of PE exercises such as jelqing that I found on the net. I thought that perhaps this would give those who are knowledgeable about such concerns the opportunity to refute them in this thread so that this would serve as a useful thread for those who are considering PE to consider the pros and cons of it.

For our demands most moderate are,

We only want the earth.

James Connolly

Last edited by raybbaby : 03-23-2011 at .


The pursuit of penis enlargement is as old as the quest for a baldness cure. With surgery and drugs, modern medicine is finally making progress on both fronts, but medical solutions can be expensive, and they often yield less than miraculous results. So men continue to be wooed by “natural” potions and schemes that promise quick growth up top, and down below. A technique called jelqing has become popular among men seeking greater penis size. Web sites that promote jelqing and online clubs for jelqing enthusiasts abound: A Google search for “jelq” yields nearly 19,000 results. Those who promote jelqing claim that it’s an “ancient Arab” technique, which lends it an exotic air — summoning images of sultry harems and Salome’s Dance of the Seven Veils. Whether the practice originates in the Middle East, however, no one WebMD contacted could say. Sex historian Vern Bullough says he has never heard of it, and queries to the Kinsey Institute and professors of Middle Eastern studies at several universities shed no more light on the matter.
There are many variations on the technique, but the basic routine involves stroking the penis with a milking motion: Starting from the base, you slide your hand up the shaft, pulling and squeezing. Then you repeat the motion. You don’t slide your hand over the head and back down the shaft as you would if you were masturbating. Instead, you stop when you reach the head, and start again from the base of the penis.

Depending on what jelqing manual you follow, you may be instructed to jelq while your penis is flaccid, in a semi-erect state, or with a full erection. Some advise you to “warm up” with hot-towel wraps. Some recommend jelqing with lubrication, while others don’t include lube. You might jelq with the palm facing up or down. Jelqing schedules and the duration of the routine often differ.

The promised results vary, too. Some hucksters say you’ll gain three to four inches in length. Other advocates are more modest.

Happy Jelqers
Thomas, a 27-year-old student in New Jersey, says he began jelqing nearly a year ago. He stands six-foot-five, but he has an average-sized penis — about six inches long. “As a taller person, I felt that I was short-changed,” he says. So far, he’s pleased with the results. “I notice a better flaccid hang, first off,” he says. He also claims to have gained three-eighths of an inch in length and five-eighths of an inch in girth, when erect, by jelqing for 45 minutes a day for five days, then taking two days off, for six weeks at a time.

Another jelqer, a 24-year-old man who prefers to remain anonymous, claims to have had more dramatic gains since he began jelqing eight months ago. He says his penis, which measured five inches erect, is now six and one-quarter inches long. Both men say they have never paid for jelqing information. They follow advice available for free at penis-enlargement discussion groups online. Nevertheless, some Web sites sell access to their jelqing programs for as much as $50.

Doctors Scoff

Jelqers may believe that the technique works, but they are mistaken about how. You may hear that by pushing blood into the erectile tissue of the penis, you can expand the chambers — the corpora cavernosa — so they eventually hold more blood, resulting in bigger erections. You may also hear that jelqing exercises the smooth muscle of the penis, making it bigger and stronger.

“I think that’s all bogus,” says Tom Lue, MD, professor of urology at the University of California, San Francisco. He says that only swelling, caused by bleeding under the skin, could explain the increases in penis size men like Thomas experience. This result would not be permanent, hence the need to follow a rigorous jelqing regimen indefinitely. The idea that the smooth muscle of the penis can be exercised , like the biceps, is a myth. “Smooth muscle doesn’t respond that way,” Lue says. In fact, stretching it can be harmful. For example, the bladder is smooth muscle. According to Lue, if you hold in urine so that the bladder expands too much, the tissue weakens. What’s more, Lue says, all the stretching, pulling, and squeezing might cause scar tissue to form in the penis, which could hinder a man’s ability to get an erection.

But Thomas maintains that apart from a little soreness, he hasn’t injured his penis by jelqing, and he says his erections last longer than they did before. “Anatomically and physiologically this is just wishful thinking,” urologist Ira Sharlip, president of the Sexual Medicine Society of North America, writes in an email. “It’s all baloney until a real study with objective before and after measurements, verified by an independent source [since you can’t do a placebo comparison], proves that it works.”

- Louanne Cole Weston, PhD

For our demands most moderate are,

We only want the earth.

James Connolly


Penis enlargement

Penis enlargement is the goal of a number of men dissatisfied with their penis size. In general, where there is a perceived problem with penis size, medical advice should be sought, rather than attempting self-treatment. Most self-treatment methods are believed to be either ineffective, dangerous or both. A survey by many sexologists showed that almost all men who believed that their penis was of inadequate size actually had a normal-sized penis. Most sexologists believe that a desire for penis enlargement comes from some other source of anxiety (see also penis panic) or perceived lack of masculinity.

Very few men have a very small penis: this is known as a micropenis, and is a very unusual condition which will generally have been detected in early childhood. Penis-enlargement self-treatments are also not effective on this condition.

Many commercial advertisements are sent via e-mail spam, direct mail, and in sexually-oriented magazines for penis enlargement aids. These are almost universally misleading and in the case of e-mail spam, are perceived as disturbing or offensive by many recipients.

Self-treatment methods
Rather than attempt to change the actual size of the penis, one may make it appear bigger, by trimming the pubic hair or by losing weight, if one is overweight.

“Penis enlargement pills” or ointments are commonly offered over the Internet; for the most part, are scams. At best, they promote blood flow to the penis in one way or another, temporarily resulting in a slightly larger erection. Herbal ingredients have included ginkgo biloba, a stimulant and vasodilator, and yohimbe, a sexual stimulant. While both of these ingredients may increase energy and sexual performance in the short term, neither is capable of increasing the length or size of the penis over time.

Analyses performed by Flora Research of California and by the University of Maryland have uncovered harmful contaminants in a number of “penis enlargement” pills. Contaminants found included mold, yeast, dangerous E. Coli bacteria, pesticides, and lead. [1] Dr. Michael Donnenberg of the University of Maryland has described herbal pills marketed by Performance Marketing Ltd. As having “heavy fecal contamination”, possibly from animals grazing near the plants harvested for herbal ingredients. [2]

There may however be a placebo effect I.e. A psychological effect of making the user think he has a larger penis, and increasing his confidence, when there is no actual change to his penis size. [3]

Penis pump
Another method usually referred to in advertising is the penis pump. This is a cylinder that is fitted over the penis, and a pump creates a vacuum. As the apparatus creates a vacuum around the penis, the penis becomes engorged with blood. The more vacuum that is created, the higher the blood-pressure becomes within the penis. The penis pumps have two very different uses:

They can act as valuable sexual aids for men who have difficulty achieving and maintaining an erection, as they can be used to achieve an erection, while a compressive ring is used on the base of the penis to maintain the erection.
A “Penis Pump” can also be used to temporarily increase the maximum erect size by increasing the amount of blood and other fluids that are in the corpus cavernosa and surrounding tissue. These temporary gains are well proven and abundantly documented on various “hobbyist” websites. However, their efficacy at increasing absolute penis size is very hard to determine. Some practitioners believe the overload principle which stipulates that as a part of the body is pushed past it’s limits the natural healing process will accommodate for the extra stress when making repairs; for example, muscles get bigger and in this case tissues lengthen and swell. Over time it is believed that regimen of pumping and or other methods will cause gains, however minor, to be realized.
Many people have a well-justified concern for the safety issues involved in pumping. The pumping process can cause blood vessels to burst, and can form blisters. In some cases the testicles can be unexpectedly pulled into the cylinder and cause an extreme amount of pain as well as possible injury. It is also believed that the rim of the cylinder can cut into the skin and over time cause damage to the ligaments surrounding the penis. However, these dangers are easily avoided by a little instruction and a lot of patience. Far too often newcomers to the practice will use too much vacuum (anything greater than 10 mm Hg) and hurt themselves before ever reading any guides to the hobby. Attempts at using vacuum cleaner base units for this purpose have resulted in severe injury: the machine causes too much vacuum and there is also danger in contacting the vacuum fan unit; both scenarios can cause severe damage.

Penis pumps gained some popular culture notoriety in the Austin Powers films.

Jelqing & Clamping
Another method is known as jelqing (or jelquing). Jelqing is a technique intended to enlarge the penis by increasing the blood pressure in the penis, with the goal of permanently increasing the maximum erect size of the penis. This technique, also called “milking”, involves wrapping the thumb and index finger around the penis while semi-erect and repeatedly drawing them away from one’s body to force blood into the glans, thus encouraging more vascularity in the corpus cavernosa and associated tissues. Whether jelqing actually works or not is a subject of controversy.

The word (and technique) is rumored to have various Arabic origins (from the word “milking”); other sources claim the technique has it’s roots in tribal Africa (particularly Sudan); however, still other sources claim that it was an American invention and these rumors are simply rumors or propaganda meant to sell jelqing instructions. Though there is a growing body of anecdotal evidence, and just one tiny non-blind study with very few participants that seem to suggest that it works, but otherwise there are no really definitive scientific studies to support the assertion or refute that this technique works, or that it is safe.

A study was performed in the late 1970s by Dr Brian Richards in the UK. It was published in the British Journal of Sexual Medicine and showed increases in 87 percent of the test subjects. Increases in penis length of up to 1.4 inches and girth of up to 1 inch were recorded.

Jelqing is inherently dangerous, and even if done correctly can cause injuries, from irritated skin and burst blood vessels to scarring and impaired penile function, including partial loss of erectile function and inability to maintain an erection. It should not be attempted by anyone without a complete understanding of the risks involved.

There are many products (tools, instructions, etc.) that one can buy; however, much of what they offer (instructions) is available on forums and free websites. Before beginning an enlargement regimen, one should contact someone experienced with the technique.

Jelqing is typically preceded by a warmup with a hot compress on the genitals, and concluded the same way.

Jelqing will often increase the size of the flaccid penis in the short-term after only a few sessions, but substantial gains to maximum erect penis size supposedly take a month or more to develop. Certain websites claim typically range in gains from .5 inches to 5 inches or more in length and .25 to 3 inches or more in girth. The upper end of the girth claims are highly suspect and the length claims represent many years of multiple enlargement techniques. However, there have been warnings that one possible cause of the growth is the presence of scar tissue caused by the exercise, which could conceivably harm penile function.

This technique is not recommended by the medical community.

Another nonsurgical method to lengthen the penis is by employing devices (or one’s own hands) that pull at the glans of the penis for extended periods of time. This is known as traction; where tissues under continuous tension will undergo stretching. If the applied tension is too large injury to the tissues or nerves of the penis can result. This is not recommended because it can forcibly tear off the vessels and other neurogical nerves thereby reducing the erectile functions of the penis. However, in some post-surgical therapy routines, light traction is prescribed. Such traction equals around 3 pounds of total tension, or 1,500 grams.

Origins of traction can be traced back to thousands of years. Many tribes in Africa still use traction to expand certain body parts such as ears, lips and necks. Many penis enlargement companies use traction as a means of expanding one’s penis. Most sites claim to produce permanent results, however, hard evidence on the accuracy of this statement still does not exist.

Surgical methods
An innovation in cosmetic surgery takes fat cells from elsewhere in the body and injects them below the surface of the skin of the shaft of the penis to increase the thickness (but not length) of the penis. The penile shaft normally has little or no fat, and this method results in an unnatural appearance and feel, as well as risking radical shifting of the fat injected.

A related method involves injection of liquid silicone into the penis and scrotum. This technique can cause enormous increases in the girth of the penis (increasing the penis volume by over 900%) but is effectively irreversible and may have side effects including loss of sensation, inability to perform penetrative intercourse, scarring and deformation.

Injections of other substances, including collagen, mineral oil, and even KY Jelly may have similar effects, but also may cause extreme scarring and permanent disfigurement.

Ligament cutting
Another method is to cut the basal penile ligament, which can result in an apparent lengthening of the penis by up to two inches in some individuals. However, it also means that, while the penis elongates and hardens with an erection, it can no longer become truly erect, but only hangs. The results of this surgery vary greatly between individuals, with some subjects reporting no measurable lengthening at all.

Inflatable implants
A further method is to replace the two corpora cavernosa with inflatable penile implants. This is performed primarily as a therapeutic surgery for men suffering from complete impotence; an implanted pump in the groin can be manipulated by hand to fill these cylinders from an implanted reservoir in order to achieve an erection. The replacement cylinders are normally sized to be direct replacements for the corpus cavernosa, but larger ones can be implanted. However, the result is an uncomfortable stretching of the other penile tissues which can have a number of complications.

A practice, known as genital beading or pearling, is gaining popularity in Indonesia and southern Asia where small objects are implated under the skin of the penis, usually close to the glans. Implants such as Steel ball bearings, plastic pellets, semi-precious stones, rings and studs are used. The reasoning for this form of augmentation is varied: some do it for supposed magical benefits, others for the pleasure of their partner, although the implant (such as a ring or stud) might be removed before intercourse. Apparently many women have found it to cause pain, discomfort, bleeding, scarring, and infection more often than pleasure.[4]

An experimental method is a complete penile transplant. With modern techniques and anti-rejection drugs, this certainly should be possible, but there has been no record of a successful attempt until very recently, when a rather unusual situation occurred in which a penis was taken from a male infant with two penises and attached to another male infant lacking a penis. The overwhelming drawback to this method, apart from the necessity to ever after take anti-rejection drugs with their side effects and restrictions in lifestyle, is the unfortunate fact that, performed on an adult, the penis then is an organ dead to the touch, which largely negates it’s usefulness. The ultimate consequences of the first penis transplant noted above are still unknown.

See also
Penis removal
^ Anatomy of a penis pill swindle (MSNBC, June 5, 2003

This entry is from Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia. It may not have been reviewed by professional editors (see full disclaimer)

For our demands most moderate are,

We only want the earth.

James Connolly

Thunders, I put the links at the top of each article

For our demands most moderate are,

We only want the earth.

James Connolly

No problem, I hope some people on here can give good answers to the concerns raised in these articles :)

For our demands most moderate are,

We only want the earth.

James Connolly

The placebo story holds some truth I think (in respect to claims as: my ejaculations have more volume - I have less erection problems - etc). Just because men are doing something about their problems gives them a sense of control, of a cure being applied, and the symptoms disappear or become less.

Undoubtedly there are people on this forum lying about their progress.

And some forum members objectively measure stuff before their routines, and after, and report the effects truthfully.

You and I are here to figure out which is which.

I knew it wasn’t real! Now all I have to do is convince my wife it’s not a lot bigger than it was a few years ago.

Good luck on that MDC. I’m sure she will back you up on that…….not!

Current measure ment 8-2-06 EL- 5.5, EG- 5.25, BPEL-6 7/6, BPFSL-7.25

Short term goal EL- 6.0, EG-5.5

Long term goals EL- 7 to 7.5, EG- 5.5 to 6.0

Dam I quit it’s all nothing but a lie, dude I’m so happy when I read these articles I hope PE goes back to the days when no one but a few of us nut bags knew about it.

I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Thomas Edison (1847-1931)

Oh yeah let me add I encourage you all not to believe you should all be happy with your God given dick size this place is just full of guys who like to make other guys think they can get a big dick from exercise and than we all meet in NYC and drink tequila and laugh and spend all the money thunder charges to be here or cheap whores and strippers.

I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Thomas Edison (1847-1931)

Originally Posted by jelqbeginner

“It’s all baloney until a real study with objective before and after measurements, verified by an independent source [since you can’t do a placebo comparison], proves that it works.”

- Louanne Cole Weston, PhD

It’s baloney until we prove it’s true. That’s professional hubris and an overreaching statement. A more accurate statement would be, “It’s suspect until proven true.” This doctor’s error goes to show how emotionally laden this issue is.

Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

Nice find JB!

Personally I think the medical community is kind of upset that WE have found a ‘true, tried & tested’ way to increase the size of our units. Think about it for a minute. The discussion is mostly negative & points towards the ‘dangers’ be it irritated skin, burst blood vessels, scarring & impaired penile function, including partial loss of erectile function & inability to maintain an erection.

To me, this sounds like the medical community are pissed that they did not discover this in order to cash in on the techniques that are found freely at places like TP’s. I mean, alot of the times it is all about money! Look at drugs like Herceptin (for breast cancer patients) in Britain, women with breast cancer have to suffer all because the price of the drug is way beyond their reach (£50k!), it’s just ludicrous!

Doctors who scoff:

Urologist Ira Sharlip, president of the Sexual Medicine Society of North America, writes “It’s all baloney until a real study with objective before and after measurements, verified by an independent source (since you can’t do a placebo comparison), proves that it works.”

Of course, you can’t do a placebo comparison with exercise techniques! If it were an ‘underground drug’ that some site stumbled upon, then ‘yes’, a placebo comparison could be carried out to find out if this drug could actually produce any effects at all. But, this is an exercise we’re all doing here, not a drug!

“A study was performed in the late 1970s by Dr Brian Richards in the UK. It was published in the British Journal of Sexual Medicine and showed increases in 87 percent of the test subjects. Increases in penis length of up to 1.4 inches and girth of up to 1 inch were recorded.” My hat goes off to this Dr. Brian Richards for conducting such a study & also proving that jelqing DOES work - even though it is shown in 87% of the test subjects, which is no small percentage! - if this is well documented in the British Journal of Sexual Medicine, then why does the medical community quote: “This technique is not recommended by the medical community.”

Remember what Urologist Ira Sharlip wrote: “It’s all baloney until a REAL STUDY with objective before and after measurements, verified by an independent source (since you can’t do a placebo comparison), proves that it works. Isn’t the study conducted by Dr. Brian Richards performed in the late 1970’s a REAL STUDY?

Well, I know that since I found TP’s & started my routine I have NOT had any real problems - if any for that matter - & that I can honestly say hand on heart, “my cock HAS visably, & physically, increased in both length & girth”. Oh, & just for the record:

Tom Lue, MD, professor of urology at the University of California, San Francisco, & Urologist Ira Sharlip, president of the Sexual Medicine Society of North America this is NOT “Anatomically and physiologically just wishful thinking”.

Keep up the good the work your doing here TP:)

- Lee Beast

The only thing that I could see as being a possible negative to PE is long-term effects, as in 10, 20, 50 years down the road. It’s not that there ARE negative effects in the long-term, it’s just that we don’t really know what happens over decades of time (as far as I’ve read at least).

Oh well, I’m gonna keep PEing anyway ;)

Starting Stats (5/21/06) - BPEL: 6.75 | NBPEL: 5.75 | EG: 5.75 (Mid) 6 (base)

Current Stats (8/21/06) - BPEL: 7.00 | NBPEL: 6 | EG: 6.0 (Mid) 6.375 (base)

My new Goal: To have the volume of a Coke can (21.65625 cubic inches ;) )

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