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What actually happens during PE?

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What actually happens during PE?

Hi all!

I was wondering, does anyone here know what actually happens during penis enlargement (PE)? A lot of people mention ‘damaging’ the ‘tissue’ and then letting it repair. But that seems somewhat vague to me..

So what ‘thing’ actually increases in the penis that makes it larger during PE? Does anyone really know?

- Jjhon

No one took pre and post biopsies, if this is what you are asking.

Well what differences would they be looking at if they did? I’m knowledgeable about histology so don’t be afraid that you might confuse me, and don’t be afraid to speculate

Changes in the tissue structure, number and size of cells, changes in elasticity and strength, changes in the vein. This kind of things.

There are studies that show what happens when vacuum pumping, but not in the long term with enlargement purposes.

When your penis enlarge, it is because your tunica has become longer or more elastic. Stronger erections also can add some size. Beyond this, not much is known for certain.

Could you please suggest a search term or link to those studies on vacum pumping?

Also my opinion..

The penis chambers (corpora cavernosa’s (CC) and corpus spongiosum (CS)) are the bulk of the penis and what we try to enlarge when we do PE. The majority of the CC are made up of two different things: a cell known as a smooth muscle cell and collagens. In the simplest of terms, collagen is a static structure that allows for form, they cannot grow like a cell can.

The percentages of these in a healthy penis is ~40% smooth muscle cells, and ~30-40% collagen.

I think that you would see an increase in smooth muscle cells and I am not sure about collagen since it cannot really “grow”.

So do suspect that their is more both smooth muscle cells AND collagen after you do a series of PE training?

1) “Changes in the tissue structure, number and size of cells”
- What kind of changes in tissue structure and number of cells (see above reply)

2) “changes in elasticity and strength”
- Are you talking about different percentages of collagen types? Since different collagens have different structural properties (I.e. Elacticity properties) and it has been shown that changes in the type of collagen within the CC are responsible for various things

3) “Changes in the vein”
- Do you mean changes in the blood vessel formation? Such as new blood vessel growth?

Originally Posted by jjohn83
Could you please suggest a search term or link to those studies on vacum pumping?


Search in these threads
Science of PE Posts and Threads. Link Here!
Loading, lengthening, healing.

or do a search for vacu*

Originally Posted by jjohn83
….. In the simplest of terms, collagen is a static structure that allows for form, they cannot grow like a cell can.


Sure it can. Cellular proliferation is seen in stretched living collagenous tissue at even the smallest degree of stretch. It would be really surprising if a living part of the body was unable to grow, since it is the main feature of living things.

Originally Posted by jjohn83
…..
I think that you would see an increase in smooth muscle cells and I am not sure about collagen since it cannot really “grow”.

So do suspect that their is more both smooth muscle cells AND collagen after you do a series of PE training?


The other way around is more likely. There is no need of an increase of smooth muscle cells, it is a highly elastic tissue similar to bowels, it can expand a lot when filled with blood; it is the tunica albuginea limiting the expansion. Also, not necessarily the growth is immediate, it may require some days before significative damage is repaired. Many guys reports spurt of growth while are on a deconditioning break.

Write in correct English please, the last sentence needs a subject, it is ‘there is’ not ‘their’, etc..

I imagine it to be physical action (i.e PE) leading to a chemical cascade via cell signalling. Send this signal enough at the right frequency and intensity and you will get growth, just like everything else protein related, through up scaled protein synthesis, packaging, transfer, upscaled mitosis. Too much and you will be send more of an injured signal.. Your body will react to this different ratio of chemicals released during damage and this will be an undesirable response for growth.

But I would really like some reviews to read about it

I am sure all cell types grow in some way other wise big gainers would have many injury’s or problems.

For me I found the end of my penis was the place that got longer. as my circumcision mark extended from the glands, not the scar.

For girth I found an approach like 1 part of the bodybuilding method to work. Get a pumps bigger and bigger each time and stretch out the outer layers (Fascia) of the penis each time you are trying to increasing the volume of your blood sac :D

“Sure it can. Cellular proliferation is seen in stretched living collagenous tissue at even the smallest degree of stretch. It would be really surprising if a living part of the body was unable to grow, since it is the main feature of living things.”

Collagen is a protein that is synthesized and secreted by cells. It CANOT “proliferate”. You can stretch it sure, but their are numerous collagen protein structures that make up various connective tissues and different types have different elasticity and stretching properties. Good idea though, it would be interesting to find out what collagen types are in the corpora cavernosa compared to the penis ligament and compare their elasticity differences. Also, I cannot find information on what cell types are responsible for collagen secretion in the corpora cavernosa, it is either endothelial or smooth muscle cells.

“I think that you would see an increase in smooth muscle cells and I am not sure about collagen since it cannot really “grow”.
So do suspect that their is more both smooth muscle cells AND collagen after you do a series of PE training?

RESPONSE: “The other way around is more likely. There is no need of an increase of smooth muscle cells, it is a highly elastic tissue similar to bowels, it can expand a lot when filled with blood; it is the tunica albuginea limiting the expansion. Also, not necessarily the growth is immediate, it may require some days before significative damage is repaired. Many guys reports spurt of growth while are on a deconditioning break.”

Decreased amounts of smooth muscle cells and increased amounts of collagen is one of the major causes of erectile dysfunction. I would be highly suspect of any exercise that increases collagen production without increasing smooth muscle cell density.

“I imagine it to be physical action (I.e PE) leading to a chemical cascade via cell signalling. Send this signal enough at the right frequency and intensity and you will get growth.”

I 100% agree with you.

Here’s a theory. You never actually damage your penis which then “rebuilds” or “heals”. You would have a stiff hard dick made up of a bunch of scar tissue if you actually did that.

Here’s my idea, I have no idea if it’s right but its a better idea than damaging and then healing

Smooth muscle cells are constantly in a “tense” state (not relaxed). When they are relaxed, it allows for the blood vessels to open up resulting in blood flow into the corpora cavernosa. Normally this relaxation of smooth muscle cells is mediated by the nervous system that releases chemicals that induces relaxation of the smooth muscle cells.

However! When you are performing jelqing exercises what you are doing is causing mechanical “shear stress” on your blood vessels. This shear stress causes the cells that make up your blood vessels to release nitric oxide (NO) that causes your smooth muscle cells to relax instead of your nervous system releasing chemicals to cause it to relax. (Think about it, after a few few minutes into a good jelq routine your penis may be as girthy as when you are erect, but your penis isn’t pointing up at full attention and you are almost completely flaccid. It would, in my mind, make sense that this is due to the fact that your smooth muscle cells are all relaxed due to increased NO production from the mechanical stress on the blood vessels, independent of the nervous system.)

Now that your smooth muscle cells are relaxed, and you have blood entering your penis at an increased rate due to increased blood vessel diameter, you can begin to jelq. Whether the gains from jelqing occur from smooth muscle cell proliferation and increased secretion of collagen occurs, or whether you stretch your tunica albuginea, or both I have no ideas about.

Google: nitric oxide endothelial cells smooth muscles shear stress to find out more about mechanical stress on endothelial cells inducing smooth muscle cell relaxation.


Last edited by jjohn83 : 08-16-2015 at .

Originally Posted by jjohn83
“Sure it can. Cellular proliferation is seen in stretched living collagenous tissue at even the smallest degree of stretch. It would be really surprising if a living part of the body was unable to grow, since it is the main feature of living things.”

Collagen is a protein that is synthesized and secreted by cells. It CANOT “proliferate”..


Collagen is a protein; collagenous tissue is living tissue. What did I say? Collagenous tissue. You get the difference? But you are wrong as well thinking that collagen can’t proliferate. Check these for example:
Proliferation and collagen production of human patellar tendon fibroblasts in response to cyclic uniaxial stretching in serum-free conditions.
Mechanical strain increases type I collagen expression in pulmonary fibroblasts in vitro.

FYI, it is ‘cannot’ or ‘can’t’, not ‘cannot’. And don’t write words in capital letters if not really required, please.

Originally Posted by jjohn83
…..
Decreased amounts of smooth muscle cells and increased amounts of collagen is one of the major causes of erectile dysfunction. I would be highly suspect of any exercise that increases collagen production without increasing smooth muscle cell density.


You can be as suspicious as you like, but yours is a fallcious argument. Collagen is the main component of connective tissue; more connective tissue you have, more collagen you have, all the remaining factors being equal. Of course you can have healthy connective tissue and unhealthy one, connective tissue under pathologic conditions can grow.

What constraint the expansion of the penis is the tunica albuginea, which is connective tissue. If the tunica albuginea can grow (and it can, there are proofs of that), than your penis can become bigger. You don’t need more smooth cells for more expansion. Not saying that they can’t proliferate too, but that is not required and unlikely is an important mechanism for penis enlargement. Smooth cells have to relax to allow blood coming in. What really increases are the veins.

Originally Posted by jjohn83

Google: nitric oxide endothelial cells smooth muscles shear stress to find out more about mechanical stress on endothelial cells inducing smooth muscle cell relaxation.

I actually did a lot of that back in collage, the shear stress acts on the glycocalyx of the endothelial cells, very cool :)

I really like your theory, esp the release of NO being independent of the nervous system. and I think many people agree you do not have to destroy it to build it back up again

I have to agree with Marinera more regarding what you must increase the size aka the tunica albuginea as you need to increase the size of the container…but as with everything I see in human physiology.. there is usually many multiple factors in play.

“Collagen is a protein; collagenous tissue is living tissue. What did I say? Collagenous tissue. You get the difference? But you are wrong as well thinking that collagen can’t proliferate. Check these for example:
-Proliferation and collagen production of human patellar tendon fibroblasts in response to cyclic uniaxial stretching in serum-free conditions.
Mechanical strain increases type I collagen expression in pulmonary fibroblasts in vitro.”

I get that collagen production increases upon stress conditions. However if you were to read the articles you noted, they mention that only the fibroblasts proliferate, and collagen is produced. Proliferation is different than production and expression in literature, but I understand that overall collagen is increased, so you could say “proliferate”. But proliferation is completely different than production or expression in every scientific article about cellular biology.

“What constraint the expansion of the penis is the tunica albuginea, which is connective tissue. If the tunica albuginea can grow (and it can, there are proofs of that), than your penis can become bigger. You don’t need more smooth cells for more expansion. Not saying that they can’t proliferate too, but that is not required and unlikely is an important mechanism for penis enlargement. Smooth cells have to relax to allow blood coming in. What really increases are the veins.”

Everything you said makes sense, except that the veins increase. Regardless this is what I am trying to understand, is the stretching of the tunica albuginea what causes the penis to expand? Or is it the cells and proteins within the corpora cavernosa that increases in density that causes the tunica albuginea to expand?

I don’t think anyone really knows but thank you for your input

It is the stretching of the tunica. How do we know this? First, because the structure of the penis per se. The penis is like a balloon, a soccer ball or a party balloon; it can be inflated by a pump. The pump is the cardiovascular system; the smooth muscle acts like a system of valves : they allow inflow when open (relaxed), expanding the balloon; of course how much the balloon can be expanded is a function of the length of the balloon.

A party balloon is made of gum, plastic or how do you call it; the penis envelope is the tunica albuginea, which is made of connective tissue, similar to a tendon. Having more valves won’t make the balloon inflate more; you’d need a way bigger balloon and pump for making more valves useful. Of course having less smooth muscle then needed can make the penis inflate less, and also having less blood flowing will cause collagen increase where there shouldn’t be : inside the CC.

Confirmation of that is that there is a surgery enlargement technique that just cuts the tunica on the sides of the penis and puts a graft of vena sativa to make it longer; the existing smooth muscle is enough to expand the bigger tunica. (I’m not recommending this kind of procedure in any way of course, just noticing that it has been performed succesfully).
In the same optic, the megalophallus as a consequence of priapism cases show changes in the tunica albuginea, but I don’t think makes any mention of increased smooth muscle. You can check that material if you like, maybe I have missed something.

Maninera what are you thoughts on girth increases and length increases regarding the tunica and what else could be growing. Recently I have found it easier to gain girth than length. We can increase the balloon size but what dictates if it will be girth or length that receives these changes. Perhaps the direction in which the pressure is applied.

(apologies if this has been said or answered before, but we have a good discussion going here)

On a side note , I think dictate and/or dictates should be used more often in this forum :D

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