Tough decision ahead

So after stretching and pumping and extending and jelqing for over a year and half to no avail, I’ve decided to move forward with surgery. Now before everyone tells me what a mistake I’m making and jumping on my case, is there anyone who has had a positive experience from surgery or great results? Or maybe someone can recommend doctors who have had a good success rate? Surely not every surgery case ends in tragedy?? Any helpful feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

There only 2 or 3 doctors I would use and I hope you’re using Belloderm or Alloderm.

With a 6.75” BPEL, why do you feel you need surgery?

Because I’ve been so insecure about my size since before I was even sexually active. I’m not happy with it and as of the last couple years it’s effected my sex life and even a couple relationships.

Who are the doctors that seem to be the most reputable / safe? Also are there any doctors on this forum that weigh in on the procedures?

While I don’t approve of this (like it matters, you’re a grown man with your own ability to reason for yourself) I can say that while we have some insights here at Thunders (I’ve read…2 stories, both were Elist horror stories), I’d scour the web and look for medical forums. You’re going to be picking through them like looking for hen’s teeth but medical, male enhancement or prostate health forums may have guys who have been under the knife for penis enlargement surgeries and they may put reviews of personal experiences with particular doctors up.

So, I’d be scouring other review boards of doctors and seeing if there’s one that’s not spam filled or advertising powered to get the answers you’re looking for.

I read about a guy who did it. Got ligs chopped from memory, then it wouldn’t stand up any more and his girlfriend left him.

I wish you very well no matter what you do. If your near 7” ‘s is a deal breaker for Women you know, I would choose better Women, before surgery. Women and Men both want big dicks and tight pussies. It’s almost God showing his humor.

Ok if you’re willing to go extreme with surgery, why not give a few extreme routines a try before that?

Read Xenolith, beardeddragon or peforfun or the last posts of thoughtfulgold threads. They are using some more intense forms of PE. Try that and if you still don’t see results, then go on with surgery if that’s what you wish.

Like most of the men on this site, I’m willing to try almost anything (obviously). Thanks for the input. I still find it strange that there are no doctor forums on this page for real QnAs and information regarding phalloplasty.

Dear SkinsJB

There are times in life when somebody tells you a truth you don’t like and verbally deny it, although you know he is bloody well right.

I’m afraid I am that someone to you!

I don’t like this role but you seem to be at the brink of a decision that will have a tremendous impact not only on your sexual but on your entire life. Drastic situations require drastic mesures, so be prepared. I will just put a mirror in front of you and point to some details.

I went through ALL of your posts in TP and now have a couple of questions;

1. You said that penis extenders are the only scientifically proven working PE method. So why did you do manual stretches, jelqing and pumping too, although they are not scientifically proven?

2. Extendrers may work. The medical studies like to study extenders (and pumps and drugs too) because they are constant and compareable in application (input) and therefore easily produce the numbers needed for statistical analysis (output). Other methods like manual exercises of all sorts work too, but are less constant in application as they are very much depending how a user applies them. And you can’t sell a product or a service with them. Those are the real reasons you find no study on these methods (OK I did not make a thorough search so please correct me if I’m wrong in this). I guess you have browsed through TP in detail already and found out a pile of gains story based on methods beyond extenders. So how did you come to the conclusion that extenders are the unique working PE technique?

3. I have a suspicion which haunts me: I imagine that you have read the extenders study, then read superficially about other possible techniques, thrown together in a wild mix as “the more the better” and just started from day 1 in January 2016 with this mixed routine. Is my suspicion correct?

4. The alternative scenario to 3. is that, before starting PE, you made (as guest as you have registered only by March 17) extensive research on TP or elsewere, then decided a mix for your routine and started in January 2016. The question is: why did you skip the very intensely recommended Newbie Routine?

5. How comes that you did not include warm-up and warm-downs in your routine although a large majority at TP think that heat is key for preventing injuries and has a good part in making gains become reality?

6. You have received a lot of comments and suggestions in your “no gains after 1 year” thread started in March. Why did you not make the long decon break?

7. You restarted after a mere 4 weeks of break in summer 2016 with a slightly modified and a bit less intense routine which still contains the same mix of techniqurs and still no heat included. Why do you think this routine should work this time as it is nearly identical to the first routine you did?

8. After 15 months without success in PE you came to a point where you decided that only surgery is the solution. Are you aware that surgery is the most risky PE technique which has the lowest average satisfaction quota of all PE techniques?

9. Regarding size: you mentioned in a post that your BPEL is 7.25’. Then, in other posts, you say your length is 6.5”. Are these 6.5” BPEL or NBPEL?

10. Are you aware that even the lower length figure, 6.5”, is well above the average length mentioned in all statistics available?

11. On girth: are you aware that a 5” girth is already 0.5” above average of average girth according to most statistics available?

12. You mentioned some bad experiences about your size in past relationships. This could be of high importance, so could you tell us the details?

13. How were your PI’s in the past, how did they develop in these 15 months and how are they now?

14. Same question as 13 but centered on EQ.

15. Do you consume porn? How often and what type of movies do you most watch?



OK, these questions jump to my mind right on spot. I am aware that my post is extremely harsh and direct in tonality, but my personal alarms go off when I read your posts. I really would like to have a in-depth discussion about these points before you make a final appointement with a surgeon.

I perceive the situation like the following:
A already above average mounted guy had one or several experiences making him consider himself as being too small. He reads about PE and extenders studies, gets some more reading about other possible PE techniques and throws all together in a big and extremely intense mix routine. Without Newbie Routine as conditioning phase, that routine gets applied on a daily base without resting days for 15 months. No measurable gains are registered. The poor dick simply was tortured, confused and it is, in my humble eyes, close to a miracle it is still working and had no injuries yet. And it is not very surprising that the dick did not grow as this intense potpourri is just random and unsystematic. There never was a chance to find out what could work and what doesn’ as everything was done at the same time. After 14 months, the guy starts a “help me it’s not working”-thread on TP. He gets some answers and some quite critical comments. But he mainly ignores them and after overall 17 months of PE, he looses patience and decides to go for the scalpel as mean of last resort.

You may now understand why I am worried. In my eyes, you never gave your dick the slightest chance to release and prove it’s growth potential. And you now think that the probably worst solution is the unique solution available.

I am awaiting your answers with great interest. I respect you as member of the PE brotherhood, that is why I am very honest to you.

You decide, after all it’s your dick.

Warmest regards

Richard65

Maybe it is because doctors consider it dangerous in terms of resonsibility, unprofessional and against standard medical ethics to give advice over the internet to anonymous users.

The answer could simply be he want results now for less effort. Damn the risks. Guy has a big dick that works but wants to take a huge risk to make it at most one half inch longer with a significant risk of permanent ED and/or losing actual size. (Source: A personal friend who is a Urologist/surgeon)

My suggestion, OP, spend the money on a therapist to work on your anxiety and self worth.

Thats a lot of info.. Ill try and answer as best as I can. I understand that this forum exists because physical PE seems to really be effective for a lot of the users. Thats what drew me to this site. That being said I’ve been doing manual stretches since I can remember, not even knowing that was an exercise. I would just pull on my dick in different directions while watching TV or what have you, but then started researching PE a couple years back. So here it goes..

1. I don’t know about scientifically proven, but it does seem to be the only study that finds results, as pumping and jelqing studies (that I found) said that they produced little to no results.

2. Same as above, also other PE blogs that I’ve read (Good Looking Loser, MatterofSize etc) seem to favor extenders and jelqing.

3. I had read a "pornstar" exercise routine that seemed to get a lot of positive feedback so I have loosely based my routine on that. 10 mins of manual stretching and jelqing in the morning, the extender for 8 hours, followed by a 10 minute waterpump before bed. It was said that this is for experienced PE users but at this point I had been doing PE for almost a year so I thought that I could take it.

4. Again, I didnt start with Thunders newbie routine but had been going off Ultimate Newbie Bathmate Routine - Archive of posts

5. A lot of my PE was done in a shower when starting my PE day, so I figured hot water was sufficient.

6. I took about 2 weeks almost off from doing anything and like I said in the post, I did see a slight decrease in size.

7. The only thing I can equate PE to is regular exercise at a gym. As I realize a dick is not a muscle, in order to get results you have to stay consistent. When doctors use traction on other body parts you have to really keep that thing on there in order for it to work. I applied that mind set to wearing the extender. But after all this feedback I guess a penis is the exception to that rule?

8. I am realistic about the risks. In all honesty I would probably opt out of getting my lig cut and just go for a filler that would help with girth.

9 - 11 my size (I just rechecked) is about 7.15" BPEL and 6.5" NBPEL. And believe me , I’ve seen all the articles about average penis size. But who wants to be average??

12. Just a few girls had mentioned that it could be bigger but they don’t care. And 1 in particular mentioned that she thought I was small.. Now that being said, I’ve also had girls say that they loved the size and even a couple say it was uncomfortable sometimes.. Its really more for me and my confidence. I’ve had this issue since before I was even sexually active and its starting to really effect my sexuality

13 - 14 .same as above. Just feel inadequate

15. Not that often, it doesn’t really do anything for me.

It is your choice. But I’ll tell you, a half inch of length through surgery versus not is two totally different things.

Fills are often lumpy over time. A user here had one in his glans, damn the risks, and the pics were…sobering once the positive effects wore off. Pits, lumps, gaps…

I considered surgery for…YEARS. Used to know all the industry materials and the surgery types but having a skin tag removed was enough cutting on my penis for a lifetime.

Lastly. Your experience with PE seems to be all the heaviest usage habits I’ve ever seen, rolled into one. There is no way that an 8 hour+ routine would get you there. Y
This isn’t a boxing film. Your penis is not Sylvester Stallone in “Rocky”.

And the more I see users reference “Good-Looking Loser” the more I hate this guy. He don’t know jack about PE. His experience is an exception to many rules. And yet he’s the main reference guys are making these days.

Also, Matters Of Size, has been pushing Bathmate and Penomet for at least 3 years now. The last time I noted extenders as the preferred method there was an age ago, back towards when I first started PE. And I’m not a huge fan of the site, tone or layout. This is just me.

If you want to go under the knife, go ahead. I’d give PE another go. As it took a while for me to get it going. My own experience started before August 2009 but I marked it then became my extender and my sexual activity were key factors then. Getting started is hard but shelling out big money for a huge mutilation risk is not a recommendation compared to starting again.

But, warmest regards and luck on your journey. That’s honest.

TG

First of all thank you for taking time to answer my "inquisition form" in details. I think I already got quite a clearer picture now. As you took a lot of time for answering this you deserve exhaustive answers too. The subject is important so I’ll give my very best.

Yep, that’s exactly the point I thought would come up. The reasons for this is so simply it is often forgotten: studies are made for the benefit of the paying party. If you have a product or a service, you have a study done and if it’s in favour you publish it and if not you improve the product or the service until you can prove success with another study.

Now manual techniques are done by the user and for the user. Nobody makes money with it (unless you find a person who jelqs or stretches your dick for you). So it’s no wonder you do not find studies proving these techniques being efficient. But you’ll find studies proving they are not because like this you can sell a product or a service which seems to be better. OK, that’s a bit of malicious thinking, but that’s exactly the way medical novelties are marketed.

Think about that when reading studies about surgical PE… and then do an in-depth research about satisfaction with surgical PE in the forums on the Internet. I did it and found exactly 2 satisfied guys - and hundreds of complaints. Up to you to make a judgement who’s right…

Oh yeah, and you even get special terms if you buy a product as member of these websites. Ever heard of kickback bonus? That’s exactly the reason these products get appraised, I guess. Get neutral opinions, not opinions which are connected to commercial interests. And don’t forget: a surgeon has a commercial interest too.

Oh yeah, the pornstar routine. It may be advanced, but that’s not the problem. The problem is the way you get into it. It’s a question of exercise isolation. If you do (just as example) the TP Newbie routine for 6 months and then jump right in the pornstar routine you described, you change about 4 or 5 parameters. Now if something goes wrong or no growth is registered (which is another term for something going wrong) how on earth can you find out WHAT EXACTLY causes you to get an injury or a plateau? The a bit better way to go into a routine is to go gradually. If your target routine has 5 components, step into it by introducing one component after the oether with steps of 1 month at least. Like this you can observe the reactions of your dick to the new stimulus. If you don’t, well, then you remain at wild guessing.

OK, no stress with that. I personally think the routine is ways too fast and stressful, mainly in order of the relation on/off days. I wonder a bit because that website (correctly) states that resat days are important and starts on a 3on/1off/2on/1off routine. I recommend starting on a 1 on/2off routine and then increase on a monthly base to 5on/2off. The key is having 2 days of consecutive rest - that’s where growth really happens. 24 hours simply is not enough for tissue to recover.

Straight answer: no it isn’t. The heat from a shower can’t be compared to the heat from a tub or even better the heat from a heating pad or rice sock. The penetration of heat is less deep. The only advantage of the shower is that there is a permanent source of heat maintained. But believe me once you start with a rice sock, you will understand what I mean when I talk about deep heat. The shower can’t do that until you’re willing to have first degree burning on you skin down there.

Yes, I see, and naturally that made you nervous if the decon is the right thing to do. But are you sure that the shrinking came from the decon and not from the previous intense overtraining? Again, by not using the gradual method, you can’t say it with certitude.

Oh, and by the way, measuring every day, week or even 2 weeks is futile. The penis is not a bamboo, it doesn’t grow overnight. And measuring too often is simply putting more mental stress to yourself and brings you to the point where you doubt too much, change routine too much and loose the point where you will make effective gains. A little bit of this, a little bit of that, that rarely works. It’s a game of PATIENCE! So gives your dick the time to react, stimulus per stimulus, month per month.

You guess right :-) A lot of folks in here have bodybuilding/gym experience and had to learn that a penis is ways more complicated than "simple" muscles. And already building muscles is not so trivial. Good PE is an art and a thing that is so closely related to experience of the user. And it’s highly individual! So the only way is to be systematic and experiment which technique, which method and which mix in a routine works best for your very individual penis.

And that’s exactly the bottomline message I want to give you: my impression is you simply applied a certain routine, thought it’s not working and now decide overall that PE is not working beside surgery. Maybe that judgement is a bit very quick and not based on exhaustive trials to succeed with manual or instrument-assisted PE. Because, and that’s my main critic, you rushed into those routines and did it without real systematic observation instead of taking the time to find the individual optimal rouitine adapted to your penis..

Well, what is valid as statement I mentioned under 1. and 2. is still valid here. It’s a simple choice, just ask the right question. Are you ready to:

A) Invest a ton of money and have with a over 95% probability a malformed and/or sexually not really well functioning penis for the rest of your life

B) Invest a lot of your time and learn how to really do cautious and risk-aware PE and have very high probability to have a working penis for the rest of your life

Exceptions in choice B are not caused by PE but other things - but even there PE may help a little as a focus of PE is to have a healthy dick all the time.

Put the cross at the letter you opt for, print it and hang it to the wall. It’s your lifetime decision!

Yes, nobody wants to be average. But the majority is. Women know it. And they enjoy average penises, because it’s not the penis but the guy attached to it who makes the difference to them!

Only you did not get my message: you are ALREADY above average with what you were given by the genetic lottery.

So please go back to section 8 above and make the choice again.

OK, now that’s a really great statement. You are perfectly aware of your size on a rational level. Sometimes it’s a bit too small, sometimes it’s just right and sometimes it’s too big. That sounds like a penis which is probably the best size for women, as they come (vaginally speaking) in different sizes too.

And the even better answer is: you clearly admit it’s an issue you have had even before you were sexually active. Now this is really cool, because you are so well aware of the root cause of your size perception. You THINK you’re small despite you OBJECTIVELY proven are NOT SMALL BUT ALREADY WELL ABOVE AVERAGE. Now there is a special term for that: body dimorphic disorder (BDD). Please don’t freak out now, because it’s welcome to the club! I guess the very large majority in here has it or had it until they started to discover real statistics about men’s size. I had it too and believe me it’s really strange to discover you have a bit of a distorted self-perception when you are over 45… which was my case!

BDD is not a dangerous thing as long as it doesn’t turn into extremes like anorexia (mostly a typical teenage girl problem). On the opposite, it is and will be your motivational source of energy for a long and successful PE career. Just learn to manage it on a sound value that it’s not turning you into extreme and dangerous decisions (like for example penile surgery without need).

If you accept that you fill in the BDD category and accept that it causes trouble to your life, then get professional help. Really. I mean it! Especially before hurting yourself or having another (even medically trained) person do it. Somebody like a surgeon…

13: I am afraid but I think you don’t know the term PI as we use it here. Have a look at Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth!

14. EQ means Erection Quality. So do you have a log about your EQ?

That rises another interesting point. Do you keep a detailed logbook? And what does it contain? Without having a day by day record of not only what you do but how the reactions are, you PE is based on guessing and not on systematic observation.

Well, it depends which generation you are from. For me (I’m 51 now) not often is maybe once a week or once a month. For a 20-year old, not often, having grown up in the age of porn availability and being used of exposition to porn, not often can means less than once per day.

But basically the answer is relaxing me. Because porn is one of the main source of male AND female size mal-perception. There are tons of discussions about porn-star measures in reality and how they are shown on camera. The difference is notable. At least I know since then I probably would be sold as "real 10 or even 12-incher", which I simply am not.

So let me sum things up: I think you just did some PE but, to be honest, you did it wrong. Not WHAT you did, but HOW you did it is wrong in my eyes. It looks random, unsystematic and ways too fast in terms of intensity and frequency to my eyes. Your dick decided not to react to that stimulus. After 15 months, your patience is at it’s end and you decide to go for the most radical solution, despite being quite well aware of the enormous risk of having a permanently injured and not satisfying penis for the rest of your life.

So, now, after all this, do you still want to go to the butcher or do you want to make up your mind and give PE a second chance by doing it right this time?



I really am interesting to know what you decided. And in case you go for plan B, I personally am available for helping you to gain some methodology knowledge at my way of approaching systematic PE. It’s not about the method you use, just how you approach it. No results guaranteed, but I guarantee that you will learn a lot about your dick’s reactions to PE.

Richard65